Bill to make attacks on Trump supporters a Hate Crime

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League_Girl
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23 Jun 2020, 12:10 pm

TheRobotLives wrote:
Fnord wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
To call someone ignorant carries multiple meanings. Most of which are quite insulting and not neutral...
No ... calling someone ignorant is pointing out their lack of knowledge.  It's like calling someone 'ginger' to point out their Celtic ancestry.

Anything shameful or insulting is attached by the recipient -- it's as if such a person wants to be insulted so they can parade their martyrdom around like a victory pennant.

An intelligent person can explain their position without having to call someone "ignorant".



Sometimes it's not worth trying to explain it because most of the time people are willful ignorant and don't care to understand. I have been there many times myself so I have given up trying to explain things to people. Lot of the times, people are too privileged to even bother to understand and tend to be closed minded and want to pretend everyone has the same experience as them and same life situation as them and have the same abilities as them.

The marginalized and those with disabilities and those who came from broken families or poor families are too exhausted to explain it to those who are privileged because 99.99% of the time, they just never listen. If people really want to understand and learn, there are videos they can watch online and google and libraries and online libraries too.

At least there are people out there that have videos and websites that explain things because they know there are people out there that do want to learn so they will try and seek out the info themselves than being lazy and having people do it for them.

There is ignorance and willful ignorance. Willful ignorance is a choice.


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23 Jun 2020, 12:19 pm

TuskenR wrote:
Fnord wrote:
No ... calling someone ignorant is pointing out their lack of knowledge. 


Calling someone ignorant has evolved over the years into a basic insult on par with calling someone stupid.



Ignorant is often a misused word.

Ignorant literally means lack of knowledge or understanding.

Kids are ignorant but wait, we call them innocent instead because naive sounds nicer. People will call someone naive just to be nice because naive is a nice way of calling someone ignorant.


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23 Jun 2020, 2:24 pm

League_Girl wrote:
TuskenR wrote:
Fnord wrote:
No ... calling someone ignorant is pointing out their lack of knowledge. 


Calling someone ignorant has evolved over the years into a basic insult on par with calling someone stupid.



Ignorant is often a misused word.

Ignorant literally means lack of knowledge or understanding.

Kids are ignorant but wait, we call them innocent instead because naive sounds nicer. People will call someone naive just to be nice because naive is a nice way of calling someone ignorant.


One can’t have lack of knowledge of stuff thst is matter of opinion on. To call someone ignorant about politics would be like saying someone’s ignorant about saying their favorite color is blue.
Your Opinion on political stuff might seem right to you but that doesn’t make it so.
How’d you like it if Someone told you you’re f*****g ignorant. You probably take that as a insult


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23 Jun 2020, 2:29 pm

League_Girl wrote:
TuskenR wrote:
Fnord wrote:
No ... calling someone ignorant is pointing out their lack of knowledge. 


Calling someone ignorant has evolved over the years into a basic insult on par with calling someone stupid.



Ignorant is often a misused word.

Ignorant literally means lack of knowledge or understanding.

Kids are ignorant but wait, we call them innocent instead because naive sounds nicer. People will call someone naive just to be nice because naive is a nice way of calling someone ignorant.


Usually naive is used when the reason why someone doesn't know because of a lack of opportunities or ability to learn, while ignorant is more of a lack of interest in learning.



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23 Jun 2020, 2:35 pm

Quote:
ignorant (adj):

1a: destitute of knowledge or education

1b: resulting from or showing lack of knowledge or intelligence

2: unaware, uninformed
Ignorance is nothing more than "not knowing".

Why do you people never bother to look things up?


:roll:


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23 Jun 2020, 2:42 pm

Fnord wrote:
Quote:
ignorant (adj):

1a: destitute of knowledge or education

1b: resulting from or showing lack of knowledge or intelligence

2: unaware, uninformed
Ignorance is nothing more than "not knowing".

Why do you people never bother to look things up?


:roll:

Right ..... and *ignoramus* only means "an ignorant person* like the dictionary says. :roll:

Merriam Dictionary
Definition of ignoramus: an utterly ignorant person


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23 Jun 2020, 3:37 pm

sly279 wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
TuskenR wrote:
Fnord wrote:
No ... calling someone ignorant is pointing out their lack of knowledge. 


Calling someone ignorant has evolved over the years into a basic insult on par with calling someone stupid.



Ignorant is often a misused word.

Ignorant literally means lack of knowledge or understanding.

Kids are ignorant but wait, we call them innocent instead because naive sounds nicer. People will call someone naive just to be nice because naive is a nice way of calling someone ignorant.


One can’t have lack of knowledge of stuff thst is matter of opinion on. To call someone ignorant about politics would be like saying someone’s ignorant about saying their favorite color is blue.
Your Opinion on political stuff might seem right to you but that doesn’t make it so.
How’d you like it if Someone told you you’re f*****g ignorant. You probably take that as a insult


If one's political opinion is uninformed, it's ignorant even if I find it superficially agreeable.

It's less like telling someone they're wrong about their favourite colour and more like pointing out that their reasons don't actually support their opinion. "Blue is my favourite colour because Alexander the Great had blue eyes and that's why he was such a capable general." is an ignorant opinion not because of the choice of colour, but because the reason is untrue nonsense.

Of course, most people are more likely to refer to a poorly substantiated and disagreeable opinion as ignorant compared to a poorly substantiated but agreeable position, but that's human nature. If someone calls your opinion ignorant you're always free to substantiate your claims and prove your opinion is an informed opinion.



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23 Jun 2020, 6:18 pm

Bravo5150 wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
TuskenR wrote:
Fnord wrote:
No ... calling someone ignorant is pointing out their lack of knowledge. 


Calling someone ignorant has evolved over the years into a basic insult on par with calling someone stupid.



Ignorant is often a misused word.

Ignorant literally means lack of knowledge or understanding.

Kids are ignorant but wait, we call them innocent instead because naive sounds nicer. People will call someone naive just to be nice because naive is a nice way of calling someone ignorant.


Usually naive is used when the reason why someone doesn't know because of a lack of opportunities or ability to learn, while ignorant is more of a lack of interest in learning.


You just described willful ignorance. There is a difference. Everyone is ignorant because we don't know everything. I am willful ignorant about cars because I choose to not learn about them and I would rather just take my car to a mechanic.

However if someone chooses to be willful ignorant about social issues and life issues and about racism, that is bad.


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23 Jun 2020, 6:35 pm

Fnord wrote:
Quote:
ignorant (adj):

1a: destitute of knowledge or education

1b: resulting from or showing lack of knowledge or intelligence

2: unaware, uninformed
Ignorance is nothing more than "not knowing".

Why do you people never bother to look things up?


:roll:



If this was at me, I have looked at it in the dictionary so that was why I say it is a misused word. If people actually understood it, it won't be so offensive.

I can see why people would think ignorant is a word for stupid because stupid literally means lack of intelligence.

And lot of people don't care what the dictionary says. They think it's used as an argument to justify and to look smart.


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23 Jun 2020, 7:03 pm

There is also selective ignorance. Many erstwhile intelligent people are also guilty of this type of ignorance.



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23 Jun 2020, 8:33 pm

League_Girl wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Quote:
ignorant (adj):

1a: destitute of knowledge or education

1b: resulting from or showing lack of knowledge or intelligence

2: unaware, uninformed
Ignorance is nothing more than "not knowing".

Why do you people never bother to look things up?


:roll:



If this was at me, I have looked at it in the dictionary so that was why I say it is a misused word. If people actually understood it, it won't be so offensive.

I can see why people would think ignorant is a word for stupid because stupid literally means lack of intelligence.

And lot of people don't care what the dictionary says. They think it's used as an argument to justify and to look smart.


Ignoring what the dictionary says, look at the root of the word 'ignorant' 'gnos', shared with knowledge, gnostic, agnostic, etc.

Stupid people are also often ignorant which means they're more likely to have the word used to describe them while also failing to bother to investigate what it means or understand it in context.



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23 Jun 2020, 8:38 pm

Quote:
Ignorant
1) Lacking knowledge.

2) Slang: Insult used to describe another party as stupid and/or prejudiced. Often used incorrectly as the most ignorant parties in a debate tend to call others ignorant to make up for their own lack of information or prejudices.


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23 Jun 2020, 9:15 pm

Ok so there's the textbook definitions of "ignorance" and the social use

I think we can all agree that calling somebody ignorant can potentially be triggering



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23 Jun 2020, 9:23 pm

Anybody who disagrees with the mob rule..........? :ninja:


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23 Jun 2020, 9:39 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Ok so there's the textbook definitions of "ignorance" and the social use

I think we can all agree that calling somebody ignorant can potentially be triggering


I'm not sure someone who had their character\intellect questioned (throught the unsubstantiated claim), or whose opponent made the claim in order to try and extricate themselves from a debate in which they were losing would consider "triggering" to be an accurate description.

Calling someone "ignorant" in those cases would be more likely to be considered a disrespectful act, both to the target of the claim, and to other participants in the debate, rather than a "triggering" act.


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23 Jun 2020, 10:05 pm

Brictoria wrote:
I'm not sure someone who had their character\intellect questioned (throught the unsubstantiated claim), or whose opponent made the claim in order to try and extricate themselves from a debate in which they were losing would consider "triggering" to be an accurate description.

The nature of a discussion does not necessarily have to be adversarial in a classic legal sense. In many intellectual disciplines colleagues can (and are encouraged) to question the veracity of a claim. So in science this happens through the principle of peer review. In law and back in the old days when scientific discoveries were debated in forums those making the claims would be subject to criticism of their theory but also subject to attack and ridicule of their person but had the opportunity to defend their position. A classic example was Sigmund Freud whose theories of psychoanalysis were roundly disputed by his medical colleagues and made him open to questions of impropriety on his part and open ridicule in public debates with his medical peers. Both attacks on the veracity of the claims as well as on the person was traditionally permissible.

Brictoria wrote:
Calling someone "ignorant" in those cases would be more likely to be considered a disrespectful act, both to the target of the claim, and to other participants in the debate, rather than a "triggering" act.


The triggering act is in the modern sense where one is permitted to defend their position based on legal defense that its an attack on their reputation or slanderous. As to whether calling somebody "ignorant" breaches any such legal requirements for slander, libel or causing harm (hate speech?) is something left for a legal expert to provide supporting evidence.

While we have a few scientists on WP, as far as I know there are no lawyers here.