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vermontsavant
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21 Jun 2020, 2:30 pm

Noam Chomsky once commented that the US,Britain and other western nations support Saudi Arabia in spite there support of Islamic fundamentalism throughout the middle east and central Asia,along with Jihadism as well.

And he said:rightly so that they do because Islamic fundamentalism and Jihadism suppresses secular nationalism which is said by some to be more dangerous.I am sure Chomsky said this in a pre-911 world of coarse but it raises a point that is now coming to fruition in Europe and the United States more so than the middle east and central Asia.

The rise of secular and ethnic nationalism,we know nationalism is on the rise in Europe and Trump in America is obviously nationalist.

We must also consider fundamentalism is the US particularly "the buckle of the bible belt area " Kansas,Oklahoma and Missouri.

Chomsky may have been right in a pre-9-11 world and the opposite right in a recent post-9-11 world but today it's a bit of a crap shoot.

So which is more dangerous? Islamic fundamentalism/Jihadism (and don't forget American fundamentalism too)
or
Ethnic and secular nationalism?

My personal opinion would be even 20 years after 9-11 I'd give the edge to Islamic fundamentalism but it's close with the rise of nationalism throughout the world.


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naturalplastic
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21 Jun 2020, 3:08 pm

I believe that Chomsky must have said that middle eastern nationalism was "dangerous" to American/British corporate interests. Not that it was "dangerous" in a general way in the same way that terrorism is dangerous.

A little bit of nationalism is good if youre resisting foriegn imperialism.

But for an establish independent country its bad because true "nationalism" is tribalism of a kind that is akin to racism.

India was secular and a patriotic (not nationalistic) state, with a Hindu majority, and religious minorities. The largest minority being Muslim. But the current prime minister is a Trump-like nationalist who has declared that "Muslims are not true Indians". If you have to be Hindu to be Indian then that is nationalism of an evil sort that undermines democracy. This nationalism doesnt bode well for the future of that most populous of democratic countries.

Fundamentalism and nationalism can go hand in hand.



vermontsavant
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21 Jun 2020, 3:28 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
I believe that Chomsky must have said that middle eastern nationalism was "dangerous" to American/British corporate interests. Not that it was "dangerous" in a general way in the same way that terrorism is dangerous.

A little bit of nationalism is good if youre resisting foriegn imperialism.

But for an establish independent country its bad because true "nationalism" is tribalism of a kind that is akin to racism.

India was secular and a patriotic (not nationalistic) state, with a Hindu majority, and religious minorities. The largest minority being Muslim. But the current prime minister is a Trump-like nationalist who has declared that "Muslims are not true Indians". If you have to be Hindu to be Indian then that is nationalism of an evil sort that undermines democracy. This nationalism doesnt bode well for the future of that most populous of democratic countries.

Fundamentalism and nationalism can go hand in hand.
Very interesting observations and your right about what's going on now in India,I have heard things are getting bad for Muslims in India,which has one of the highest Islamic populations.

I disagree about the initial fear of nationalism being that of corporate interests,if you see the problems nationalism is causing in Europe and America,imagine if the middle east and central Asia went nationalist.But I think you are right that nationalism and fundamentalism can go hand in hand too.


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funeralxempire
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21 Jun 2020, 3:32 pm

Russia and Turkey both represent places where a mix of fundamentalism and nationalism are taking root. The Russian Orthodox Church has been working hand-in-hand with Putin, and Ergodan's appeal is largely to the equivalent of Turkey's deplorables who are hostile to Turkey's relative liberalism and tradition of secularism.


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funeralxempire
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21 Jun 2020, 3:34 pm

vermontsavant wrote:
Very interesting observations and your right about what's going on now in India,I have heard things are getting bad for Muslims in India,which has one of the highest Islamic populations.

I disagree about the initial fear of nationalism being that of corporate interests,if you see the problems nationalism is causing in Europe and America,imagine if the middle east and central Asia went nationalist.But I think you are right that nationalism and fundamentalism can go hand in hand too.


It isn't just Muslims, I know Sikh coworkers I have express concern about how Modi's policies will impact their families.


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vermontsavant
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21 Jun 2020, 9:07 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Russia and Turkey both represent places where a mix of fundamentalism and nationalism are taking root. The Russian Orthodox Church has been working hand-in-hand with Putin, and Ergodan's appeal is largely to the equivalent of Turkey's deplorables who are hostile to Turkey's relative liberalism and tradition of secularism.

Indeed,glad you brought up Turkey and we all know about Russia but Turkey gets forgotten.


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