Could George Floyd's murder have been a conspiracy?

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ironpony
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21 Jun 2020, 3:24 pm

I am not a conspiracy theorist by any means. I was not sold on conspiracy theories over JFK, 9/11, or the moonlanding being faked by example. And I do think that the murder of George Floyd was a real tragedy and I do not mean to disrespect that in any way, when I say this.

But it seems to me that George Floyd's murder being a conspiracy, just seems more plausible because of how everyone was pre-planned to react the same way afterwards.

It just seems really strange to me that after the murder, in the US, all of a sudden, all these extremists groups were making so many demands, ready to go, as if they were literally waiting in the wings. The whole attempted take over of the country, just seems pre-planned and not this many people would agree to a take over of the system spontaneously like this, even over someone's murder by police.

It's almost as if the police who murdered him were extreme left-wing ideologists, as well as the person video-recording the murder, or they just waited for someone to record it and that was part of the plan. These officer's motivation was, we need to get this defund the police ideology going but in order for our co-conspirators throughout the country to rise up and act on it, and get other people motivated as well, we need to be scapegoats in a murder and sacrifice ourselves that way, along with a black man, for the greater good.

Do you think that it's possible it's a conspiracy theory, especially since the whole country rose up so fast, as it it was all pre-planned?



shlaifu
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21 Jun 2020, 4:07 pm

No.
That's a BS theory.
But then, some believe the earth is flat. ...


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funeralxempire
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21 Jun 2020, 4:07 pm

No and I'd say framing it as such is utter guano.

It isn't the first time the murder of an unarmed black citizen by police has sparked protests and with a lot more people out of work or working fewer hours due to the coronapocalypse, there were a lot more people who were able and motivated to get involved with protests. It's hard to participate in protests when you work 55 hours a week at two jobs, but when one of them lays everyone off and the other is only providing a few hours suddenly that mother has time to participate in a cause relevant to her sons futures.


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The_Walrus
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21 Jun 2020, 4:07 pm

This takes the cake. Absolutely no factual basis or evidence presented whatsoever.

Fundamentally the world does not lend itself to conspiracies on this scale, and does lend itself to accidents, order emerging from chaos, and low-probability events inevitably happening after a given period.

You physically can’t organise a nation-wide uprising unless you have the military on your side and you can easily seize political power. That isn’t what we have seen here.

Firstly the idea that George Floyd’s death was planned. Nonsense. It was clearly an accident which the cops worked to prevent. If you were going to kill someone in public in order to spark nationwide protests then you’d just shoot them, not wait until you encountered a sick person and then film yourself helping them and hope it doesn’t work.

Secondly the idea that the subsequent protests happened “too quickly” or whatever. For starters, this wasn’t a new thing. There have been lots of protests over the deaths of black people in recent years, the big ones being Trayvon Martin, Michael Brown, and Eric Garner. There was a script ready to go. Combine that with people going stir crazy due to social isolation and you had a situation that was going to go off as soon as another black person died in questionable circumstances, which was inevitably going to happen at some point.

You have absolutely no evidence that the police officers who have been charged with Floyd’s murder were left wing extremists, and it is completely unhinged to suggest that they were trying to get support for reducing police funds.

If you believe this then you’re entirely a conspiracy theorist, right off the deep end, up there with the people who hold up pizza restaurants.



kraftiekortie
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21 Jun 2020, 4:11 pm

Nope.

I echo Walrus’ sentiment.

Not everything is a “conspiracy.”



ironpony
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21 Jun 2020, 4:16 pm

Oh okay. I thought that if it was planned the reason, why they made the murder look like an accidental death, was so no one could say it was a conspiracy maybe. And yes, I have no evidence, I am fully admitting it is a theory.

It's just that all these protests with demands started happening right after, to the point where it all felt like a large number of people were waiting in the wings for something like this to happen. But how do such a large group of people around the country wait in the wings for something to act on, without it being pre-planned between them, seemed strange to me.



kraftiekortie
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21 Jun 2020, 4:17 pm

They didn’t happen “right away.” It took a few days for the protests to be well-established.



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21 Jun 2020, 4:19 pm

ironpony wrote:
Oh okay. I thought that if it was planned the reason, why they made the murder look like an accidental death, was so no one could say it was a conspiracy maybe. And yes, I have no evidence, I am fully admitting it is a theory.

It's just that all these protests with demands started happening right after, to the point where it all felt like a large number of people were waiting in the wings for something like this to happen. But how do such a large group of people around the country wait in the wings for something to act on, without it being pre-planned between them, seemed strange to me.


They're highly motivated and use modern communications technology. How hard do you think it is to generate outrage over police brutality in a community that is regularly victimized by excessively and needlessly violent policing? Of course they're ready to respond yet again to the same damn thing.

And, as Kraftie said, they grew in the first few days, it wasn't all at once.


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21 Jun 2020, 4:21 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
This takes the cake. Absolutely no factual basis or evidence presented whatsoever...
Prima Facia evidence that the OP's "theory" is a huge crock of Grade-A Woo-Woo Duck Butter.

Another would be that there is no case that the "theory" could be falsified, since every falsifiable case would be construed as further "evidence" of a cover-up by the conspiracy theorists.

Maybe this thread is best locked (not deleted) as an example of how NOT to comment on controversy.


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ironpony
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21 Jun 2020, 4:28 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Oh okay. I thought that if it was planned the reason, why they made the murder look like an accidental death, was so no one could say it was a conspiracy maybe. And yes, I have no evidence, I am fully admitting it is a theory.

It's just that all these protests with demands started happening right after, to the point where it all felt like a large number of people were waiting in the wings for something like this to happen. But how do such a large group of people around the country wait in the wings for something to act on, without it being pre-planned between them, seemed strange to me.


They're highly motivated and use modern communications technology. How hard do you think it is to generate outrage over police brutality in a community that is regularly victimized by excessively and needlessly violent policing? Of course they're ready to respond yet again to the same damn thing.

And, as Kraftie said, they grew in the first few days, it wasn't all at once.


Well it's not so much that the technology got everybody to know about it fast, it's that how is everyone motivated to start protests to make demands, and want to take over the whole government. For example, if I was an American no cellphone, no matter how good the technology was, would motivate to want to make all these government changes. So what baffled me, is how were people motivated into all doing the same thing so quick? It's not about fast cellphone technology alerting everyone, it's all these people all of a sudden given the exact same motivations.



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21 Jun 2020, 4:35 pm

ironpony wrote:
... what baffled me, is how were people motivated into all doing the same thing so quick? It's not about fast cellphone technology alerting everyone, it's all these people all of a sudden given the exact same motivations.
Did it ever occur to you that all of those people actually have the same motivations?

Or are you so stuck inside your own mind -- lacking the same motivations -- that simply cannot conceive the idea that even one person might have different motivations than yours?

Or are you just trying to start a conspiracy theory of your own?


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21 Jun 2020, 4:37 pm

ironpony wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Oh okay. I thought that if it was planned the reason, why they made the murder look like an accidental death, was so no one could say it was a conspiracy maybe. And yes, I have no evidence, I am fully admitting it is a theory.

It's just that all these protests with demands started happening right after, to the point where it all felt like a large number of people were waiting in the wings for something like this to happen. But how do such a large group of people around the country wait in the wings for something to act on, without it being pre-planned between them, seemed strange to me.


They're highly motivated and use modern communications technology. How hard do you think it is to generate outrage over police brutality in a community that is regularly victimized by excessively and needlessly violent policing? Of course they're ready to respond yet again to the same damn thing.

And, as Kraftie said, they grew in the first few days, it wasn't all at once.


Well it's not so much that the technology got everybody to know about it fast, it's that how is everyone motivated to start protests to make demands, and want to take over the whole government. For example, if I was an American no cellphone, no matter how good the technology was, would motivate to want to make all these government changes. So what baffled me, is how were people motivated into all doing the same thing so quick? It's not about fast cellphone technology alerting everyone, it's all these people all of a sudden given the exact same motivations.


You obviously don't belong to a group that has been the victim of racism for a few hundred years.
There's your motivation.


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The_Walrus
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21 Jun 2020, 4:38 pm

People don’t have the exact same motivations.

The protesters are united behind a narrow cause - Black Lives Matter - but beyond that they have a wide range of proposed solutions. Everyone from anarchists to Mitt Romney has been on these marches. Some anarchists want to abolish the police, but I’m betting the vast majority of marchers would prefer reforms like better training.



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21 Jun 2020, 4:41 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
People don’t have the exact same motivations.  The protesters are united behind a narrow cause - Black Lives Matter - but beyond that they have a wide range of proposed solutions...
Okay ... that makes more sense than my previous statement.


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21 Jun 2020, 4:55 pm

George Floyd and Derek Chauvin worked together and didn't like each other. It looks like a good portion of this was an a***hole getting even and showing power over someone who didn't like him and it sounds like with the basis of the dislike it was George Floyd who was in the right - ie. that Chauvin was rough with the customers and George had complained about it.

It really sounds like Chauvin had some type of cluster B personality disorder and that's the last thing you want to have in a police officer.

If this looks like a conspiracy theory it's because the end result was near perfect archetypal horror and stupidity, and as Joe Rogan mentioned in his chat with Bret Weinstein - anyone who knew anything about martial arts, MMA, physical restraint, etc. knew that anyone whose neck was knelt on for close to 9 minutes would be a goner, especially with the other side of his neck on a curb or uneven plane of some type with the other side of it biting into his neck and closing off blood supply to his brain.

Was it timed almost perfectly to light the fuse on the bomb that a six week quarantine had created? Absolutely.

I'm also going to make an argument here from what I consider to be a metaphysical view that many people here (particularly of the reductive materialist camp) may not share but I think it's worth sharing anyway because it helps tune down the notion that there's a human organizational conspiracy behind these sorts of things - I don't believe that to be the case. You see weird things like Shadilay (1981) and Pepe the Frog, you see Grime's Violence videos where they're all wearing something that looks similar to fashionable N95 masks in the video (and it's very strong archetypal piece of music that touches on the nexus of a lot of things). There's some degree of future probabilities, IMHO, pulling on current events for maximum effect of certain types. I think of this along the lines of Jacques Vallee's Magonia concept, that Donald Hoffman's right about us living in a social network of conscious agents - most of which are not in our line of sight based on how evolution has shaped our senses, and thus these sorts of things are due to parts of the information ecology in the world that we can't see.


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ironpony
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21 Jun 2020, 5:14 pm

Fnord wrote:
ironpony wrote:
... what baffled me, is how were people motivated into all doing the same thing so quick? It's not about fast cellphone technology alerting everyone, it's all these people all of a sudden given the exact same motivations.
Did it ever occur to you that all of those people actually have the same motivations?

Or are you so stuck inside your own mind -- lacking the same motivations -- that simply cannot conceive the idea that even one person might have different motivations than yours?

Or are you just trying to start a conspiracy theory of your own?


Oh okay, it just seems like so many people rushing to get behind wanting to reform the whole country movement, seemed like too much of a coincidental motivation. I guess I just didn't think there were that many extremists out there with such high demands.