Rant: I firmly condemn BLM and its actions!

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cyberdad
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30 Jun 2020, 6:01 pm

Greatshield17 wrote:
just because one is a member of a certain ethnicity, nationality or creed, doesn’t mean that that person knows everything about that said nationality, ethnicity or creed. Many Catholics have been very poorly cathechized, many “Americans” don’t know that their state is supposed to be their country, not the Union as a whole. Truth is Truth regardless of what ethnicities or nationalities are involved.


I am able to give you some leeway on the matter of moral relativity whereby the values of the time allowed for the christian concept of divine duty in converting heathen. This was certainly widespread and by no means solely a sin on the part of the catholic church. But while many protestant denominations eventually shifted to support emancipation as early as the 1800s there was silence in Latin America from the catholic church which allowed continued enslavement of indigenous people virtually to the 1900s.

So what indigenous Americans in California object to is the recognition of the canonisation of Serra, this is yet another example of where the catholic church is out of step with the modern world. Why would god work through a man who used the degradation and suffering of his fellow humans as a means to build shrines to himself??

If you can't see why his statues are being attacked then its because you choose to look at this historical figure through the lens of theological righteousness rather than his actual deeds.



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30 Jun 2020, 6:04 pm

cyberdad wrote:
... what indigenous Americans in California object to is the recognition of the canonisation of Serra, this is yet another example of where the catholic church is out of step with the modern world. Why would god work through a man who used the degradation and suffering of his fellow humans as a means to build shrines to himself??

If you can't see why his statues are being attacked then its because you choose to look at this historical figure through the lens of theological righteousness rather than his actual deeds.
^ This, Quoted For Truth! ^

:wtg:


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Greatshield17
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30 Jun 2020, 6:35 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Greatshield17 wrote:
just because one is a member of a certain ethnicity, nationality or creed, doesn’t mean that that person knows everything about that said nationality, ethnicity or creed. Many Catholics have been very poorly cathechized, many “Americans” don’t know that their state is supposed to be their country, not the Union as a whole. Truth is Truth regardless of what ethnicities or nationalities are involved.


I am able to give you some leeway on the matter of moral relativity whereby the values of the time allowed for the christian concept of divine duty in converting heathen. This was certainly widespread and by no means solely a sin on the part of the catholic church. But while many protestant denominations eventually shifted to support emancipation as early as the 1800s there was silence in Latin America from the catholic church which allowed continued enslavement of indigenous people virtually to the 1900s.

So what indigenous Americans in California object to is the recognition of the canonisation of Serra, this is yet another example of where the catholic church is out of step with the modern world. Why would god work through a man who used the degradation and suffering of his fellow humans as a means to build shrines to himself??

If you can't see why his statues are being attacked then its because you choose to look at this historical figure through the lens of theological righteousness rather than his actual deeds.

Again, ignoring, at least in part if not in whole, my arguments in defense of St. Junipero Serra. And also bringing up an off-topic controversy against the Catholic Church, which is a typical Anti-Catholic tactic, it's mostly used by Protestants, but the use of it by various other groups hostile to the Catholic Faith isn't surprising. (Especially considering most, if not all, Anti-Catholic ideologies stem from Protestantism.)


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Don't bother with me, I'm just a narrow-minded bigot who does nothing but "proselytize" not because I actually love the Faith, because no one loves the Faith, we're just "using it to justify our bigotry." If you see any thread by me on here that isn't "proselytizing," I can't explain that because that's obviously impossible; because again, all I've ever done on here is "proselytize."


Greatshield17
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30 Jun 2020, 7:02 pm

Fnord wrote:
Greatshield17 wrote:
Like I said before, you can pull down statues of Saint Junipero Serra all you want, but you’ll never be able to pull down Saint Junipero himself out of Heaven; nor can anyone who actually does such an outrage avoid or deny the consequences of such an action if they die unrepentant of it.
There is no assurance that Mr. Serra is anywhere else except in his grave ... or maybe 3958.8 miles deeper.
Greatshield17 wrote:
To be fair, Saint Junipero himself would have probably loved that; he would have considered it a great honor to suffer a painful death for the sake of the Truth.  Just as I myself would have loved to have been at one of those scenes and suffer all the verbal and possibly even physical abuse for defending the Truth.
No wonder you keep coming back to this thread.
Greatshield17 wrote:
I already refuted the points made and as I predicted, people ignored it, probably because it was Catholic...
No, people ignore your so-called "refutations" because they are based on apocryphal myths and and traditional beliefs -- not on Biblical truths or Scientific facts.
Greatshield17 wrote:
... and the mask that’s hiding Anti-Catholicism in the West, has been slipping away more and more in this past month.
This "mask" you refer to may only be your realization that Science -- not faith -- rules the secular world of both East and West.
Greatshield17 wrote:
Keep in mind, I only know the basics of Saint Junipero Serra, I haven’t read all the apologetics available out there. Which brings me to my next point, just because one is a member of a certain ethnicity, nationality or creed, doesn’t mean that that person knows everything about that said nationality, ethnicity or creed.
Ahh ... but there is a greater likelihood that a member of a Native American or First Nations tribe knows far more than you will ever admit to regarding Mr. Serra.
Greatshield17 wrote:
Many Catholics have been very poorly catechized...
... and poorly educated, as well.
Greatshield17 wrote:
... many "Americans" don’t know that their state is supposed to be their country, not the Union as a whole.
Evidence, please?  Have you never heard of our "Pledge of Allegiance" to the Republic?  We recite no such pledge to our states, counties, or municipalities.
Greatshield17 wrote:
Truth is Truth regardless of what ethnicities or nationalities are involved.
Then you should get your face out of you prayer book and learn some.
Greatshield17 wrote:
If I lived in California, I would have considered a lot of things.
Free, Secular, Well-Educated, Knowledgeable, Employed ... the list goes on.
Greatshield17 wrote:
But the Lord has other plans for me.
I hope He plans on you being buried in a fire-proof suit.
Greatshield17 wrote:
Well, regardless of whether you believe so or not, I do respect your humanity.
Then why worship idols and pray to dead people?
Greatshield17 wrote:
Human beings are supposed to live in conformity with reality, and when they do they feel much peace and joy.
My reality is a material one.
Greatshield17 wrote:
When you just flat-out ignore my evidence...
WHAT "evidence"?  All I see are apocryphal myths and and religious beliefs.
Greatshield17 wrote:
... and resort to this level of distortion of reality, I cannot help feel pity for you; because this behavior will not do you any favor as a human being.
Fortunately, you cannot dictate what others will believe -- you are not G^D, His prophet, an Apostle, nor the reincarnation of Juniperro Serra himself.  You are just someone trying to impress strangers on a public website devoted to people with ASDs, and you are failing miserably at it.
Greatshield17 wrote:
You are perfectly free to try again, I won't bring this up again, I'll act as if this post never happened. But that's your choice, not mine, I can't do anything to make you choose.  what's best. 
There.  Corrected it for you  You're welcome!

Oh, and by the way, how many "Hail Marys" do you have to recite to get a job?  Several of my Catholic friends are currently unemployed, and they might like to know.

If anyone wants me to answer any of the things mentioned above, like for example, how is it that United States of America is a Union, not a country; please don't hesitate to ask me, because I'm done listening to Fnord, he's going back on my foes list.


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Don't bother with me, I'm just a narrow-minded bigot who does nothing but "proselytize" not because I actually love the Faith, because no one loves the Faith, we're just "using it to justify our bigotry." If you see any thread by me on here that isn't "proselytizing," I can't explain that because that's obviously impossible; because again, all I've ever done on here is "proselytize."


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30 Jun 2020, 7:04 pm

Greatshield17 wrote:
Before I begin, I would like to mention something interesting I came across while studying my own province's history at my secular college and later, my secular university. During the early days of British Columbia, the government officials were repeatedly scared about the danger of the province undergoing something called "Californiazation." What was "Californiazation?" Well during the Californian Gold Rush, the authorities hunted down the indigenous peoples and slaughtered them like animals, to ensure they didn't interfere with the gold mining. This was what the government officials of British Columbia were scared of, these acts of violence. These Californian policies were clearly genocidal and yet, up until a couple of years ago, when one looked up "Californian Genocide" one did not get the Gold Rush, one got Saint Junipero Serra's Missions.

Saint Junipero Serra lived in a remote place as is evidenced by the fact that he founded most of the modern-day settlements of California. This is important, not only because it is important to keep in mind that corporal punishment was the norm in frontier lands, regardless of one's ethnicity or creed, but also because the sources we have of St. Junipero Serra are very limited. They come either from the Church, or from a small handful of outsiders, who like most people, often projected their own views onto them. It's highly possible that, one of the origins of the myth of St. Junipero Serra's Missions being genocidal, is guilt over the actual Californian Genocide and efforts to shift blame onto St. Junipero, mixing him into the Spanish Black Legend.

Now let's move onto some of the points presented:

Fnord wrote:
• The thousands of American Indians who were herded forced into the missions by sword and whip did not come voluntarily but were treated as slaves insofar as they were paid nothing;


Funny, one of your own points seems to contradict this very claim:

Fnord wrote:
• They were seldom allowed to return to their villages (if they tried to they were whipped and tortured, some locked into braces in the hot sun and left without water for days);

When the indigenous peoples accepted baptism, it was believed they were agreeing to stay at the mission and not leave. Now, obviously, these expectation weren't always that well communicated to the indigenous and thus, they didn't understand that expectation; but there is no deception, much less, coercion on St. Junipero's part. St. Junipero was clear that the indigenous peoples had to come to the missions voluntarily.

As for corporal punishment, I've already explained how that was commonplace among all frontier settlements. It is worth noting however that there is a story, it's unclear whether it's true or not, but there is a story that, shortly after the overthrow of the Aztec Empire, an indigenous man was late for mass and as punishment, was lashed for it. This caused great scandal among the indigenous peoples, and they started to loudly voice their protest to Hernan Cortez and other officials. In response, Cortez made an arrangement with the bishop for he, himself to be late for mass the next Sunday. So next Sunday Hernan was late, and as punishment for it, he was lashed in front of the indigenous peoples; thus sending the message to them that everyone was expected the same behaviour under the law, regardless of their ethnicities.

Also there was one time where a group of indigenous peoples torched San Diego and murdered a priest. The military officials there, (whom St. Juniperro was often at odds with.) wanted the indigenous peoples put to death for the act, but St. Junipero argued against it and was able to have their lives spared.

Fnord wrote:
• They were forced to provide free labor for decades in the building of the Catholic missions and their lands and vineyards and cattle raising;

As I mentioned in my previous posts, these labours provided the indigenous peoples an economic defense against exploitation by the incoming settlers. Many of these new practices enriched the culture of the indigenous peoples, and the Spanish in turn also found new things in some of the practices of the indigenous peoples. From the sources themselves, St. Junipero Serra is said to have found "cleverness in everything [the indigenous peoples] did."

Fnord wrote:
• They were cut off from their religion, culture, and families;

"Religion" eh? you mean like, oh what's the word I'm looking for, idolatry?!? The thing that you and, at least one other person on here has accused me and other Catholics of engaging in? Well while people on here may accuse me of idolatry, St. Junipero Serra did not look down on the indigenous peoples as pagans or heathens, he considered them "gentiles" or unchurched people. People who were in search of the True Religion and just hadn't found it yet. I already mentioned in my previous response how both cultures exchanged innovations that improved each other; and I also mentioned how they went voluntarily albeit, maybe not having had full understanding of what they were agreeing to.

Also, I think it's worth considering that, while the indigenous peoples of St. Junipero's time may have been cut off from their villages and the like for agreeing to be baptized. The indigenous peoples of later generations were cut off from their bodies during the Gold Rush, for getting in the way of prospectors.

Fnord wrote:
• They were forced to attend daily Mass even though it was in Latin of which they understood not a word and were forced to kneel for several hours during the Mass;

The Latin prayers in the Mass were not said for the lay people, they were said for God, they offered up for God, they were not meant to laity to hear and understand. Indeed, during the early days of the Church, and this is still the case in some of Eastern Catholic Churches today, the laity weren't expected to stay attentive before the priest for most of the Mass; but rather go about the church and visit the various statues and icons of the Saints present there and speak with them. It was only during the reading of the Gospel, the sermon or homily, and the consecration and reception of Holy Communion; that the laity were supposed to be attentive.

Now I'm not sure what the indigenous peoples were allowed to do during the Masses of Saint Junipero's day, but nonetheless, I can hardly see this as being bad as getting lashed. Also, in regards to the Latin in particular, as I'm sure most people are aware, most Masses are now said in the vernacular. And despite the vernacular languages present in the Mass, a lot of people still have no idea what's going on in them, and thus, a lot of young people are now actually opting to attend Traditional Latin Mass parishes instead. (Not because of the Latin or vernacular mind you, there is a whole boatload of other complex and controversial reason that are several other stories for other times.)

Fnord wrote:
• The men were separated from the women;

• They were often starved and close to starving, yet still forced to labor in the fields.

I should have mentioned above that Junipero Serra had the agricultural labour run in a monastic style, because he believed it would be the easiest and most efficient way of getting things done. There was flexibility in the style however, at one point a huge amount of sardines were washed onto the shore, (I'm not sure if such a thing in California is an annual occurrence or something that happens by chance.) and St. Junipero allowed the schedule to be altered so that the indigenous peoples could collect the sardines.

Fnord wrote:
The coastal American Indian numbers were estimated at 300,000 when the Spanish arrived in 1769; 120 years later they were 16,624, due to genocide by Juniperro Serra and those who followed him.

The fact that anyone would venerate a vicious, sadistic beast like Juniperro Serra -- a man on par with Roman Emperor Caligula -- implies that they either don't know the truth, they deny the truth, or they accept the truth as mirroring the truth that is within themselves.

Unlike the real Californian genocide, the British handing-out of smallpox blankets, or the Mi'kmaq scalp bounty in Nova Scotia; and unlike Emperor Caligula, who took sadistic pleasure in killing people, Saint Junipero Serra had absolutely zero intention for killing Indigenous peoples. Calling Saint Junipero's Missions genocidal and comparing him to Emperor Caligula is just outrageous. In a just a society you should be ashamed of yourself for saying such things.

But alas, we don't live in a just society do we? No, in this society, I'm the racist animal for calling out such disgusting attacks.

Fnord wrote:
Finally, to condemn the "Black Lives Matter" movement because of the actions of Native Americans is to embrace racism. Why do idolatry -- whether of statues to dead "saints" or flags of dead ideologies -- and racism always seem to go hand-in-hand?

In the videos I saw, the crowd that was cheering maliciously as they attacked the statue, actually looked mostly white to me; I'm not saying they were white, I realize that some indigenous peoples can have caucasian appearances and features. But it doesn't matter, I don't care what ethnicity you are, when you attack a member of spiritual family, I'm going to respond; and I don't care who you are or what you identify as, I don't care what grievances you have, because when you do stuff like this, you cease to be the victim and become the victimizer. :x

But all that being said, I don't exactly want to continue this debate. I'm willing continue this debate if I must, but several things are making me reluctant. Key among them are first, there is a very distinct possibility that everything I say on here will be dismissed simply because it's Catholic. I wish I didn't have to speculate this, but based on what I've seen on this thread and on several others, I just cannot help but accept that as a distinct possibility.

But a deeper reason why I'm reluctant to continue the debate is this, I am fully willing to be called a racist, a monster and the like for saying and standing by all this, I should be. I know full well that Catholic teaching is not only rejected by people who support BLM and similar groups, but also despised and condemned as "evil" by the like. I should be able to accept to be yelled at as an evil racist and viewed as scum and suffer incredible things for the sake of the Lord's Love; because at the end of the day, I can have everything taken away from me, and everything that't not taken away from me, I'm going to lose in the end. There is only one thing that cannot be taken away from me, my chance at Eternal Salvation. And there is only one person that can take my chance for Eternal Salvation away from me, myself; and unfortunately, in my process of looking up information on St. Junipero Serra before going on here, I committed a mortal sin. I came across a news article regarding the fate of another statue of Saint Junipero Serra, in reading the article I got angry and I ended up committing a rash judgement against a priest involved in that story. Rash judgements are a mortal sin, so now I have to contact my diocese and see if I can make arrangements for a confession. When I commit a mortal sin, I get depressed, and I end up functioning a bit poorer then I would under ordinary circumstances; and in this time when I'm taking huge steps forward and when there are now calls for statues of Jesus and Mary to be smashed, I feel rather depressed that I've taken this huge stumble at this point in time.

I'll keep debating if people insist, don't assume that I've lost the debate. But I would rather be preparing for the high probability of a storm coming, in the very near future. At my secular college my history instructor twice touched on the Canadian Martyrs, or the North American Martyrs as they're also been called, in two different courses. In those two times he touched upon the Martyrs, I noticed that his tone got very odd. He disapproved of the Martyrs bringing the Faith to the Hurons, yet when he touched upon the Martyrs themselves and how they were "fanatics" for willing to suffer everything, and lay down their lives for the sake of bring the Gospel to the Hurons; I heard something very distinct in the instructor's voice. After hearing it the second time around, in my second course, (by then I had reverted to the Catholic Faith, I was a deist the first time I heard it) and reflecting on it afterwards, I finally realized what it was that I heard in the instructor's voice, fear. The instructor was frightened by the idea that people were truly willing suffer and die, all for the sake of converting indigenous peoples to the Catholic Faith. That really inspired me, not because I wanted to "strike fear into the hearts of my enemies," but because what better is there to show people, that you do not hold the Catholic Faith because you are a bigot and racist and want to profit off the old way of doing things; than suffering and dying for the Faith? To show that you truly Love God and love your fellow human beings for God's sake, and that Catholic Church's teachings are for the benefit humanity and not bigoted and crude. I became deeply devoted to the Canadians Martyrs and have been praying for the grace to have a zeal like them for a long time.

This thread is not just a rebuke, it's an act of defiance. I'm letting you know that not only you not be getting off un-rebuked for your actions, or your support of these actions, but that these actions will bring you no triumph. You can pull down statues of St. Junipero Serra, but you will never be able to pull down Saint Junipero himself, out of Heaven. In the end, Our Lady's Immaculate Heart will triumph, and the Lord has preserved 7000 in the New and Eternal Israel, the Catholic Church, who have not kneeled down before BLM or any other statue-smashing group.

Here're my arguments again, for those of you who have trouble finding them on this thread.


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Don't bother with me, I'm just a narrow-minded bigot who does nothing but "proselytize" not because I actually love the Faith, because no one loves the Faith, we're just "using it to justify our bigotry." If you see any thread by me on here that isn't "proselytizing," I can't explain that because that's obviously impossible; because again, all I've ever done on here is "proselytize."


funeralxempire
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30 Jun 2020, 7:06 pm

You're still celebrating a genocidal monster GS. This is a turd that can't be polished.


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30 Jun 2020, 7:32 pm

Greatshield17 wrote:
Here're my arguments again, for those of you who have trouble finding them on this thread.
No one has any trouble with finding them.  No one has any trouble with rejecting and then forgetting them, either.

Junípero Serra y Ferrer, O.F.M was not only a genocidal monster, but those who worship him, pray to him, and excuse his crimes are denying his actions -- sadism, slavery, and expressions of contempt and disregard for the physical welfare of the very people he was supposed to be "saving".

Junípero Serra delivered "salvation" at the point of the sword and the crack of the whip, and should therefor be condemned to eternal anonymity.


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Greatshield17
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30 Jun 2020, 9:43 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
You're still celebrating a genocidal monster GS. This is a turd that can't be polished.

The only thing I can glean from this post is, that he is a "genocidal monster" because you say so. That's all I can glean, no refutation of my arguments, no new information, nothing, just a rejection of the arguments.


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Don't bother with me, I'm just a narrow-minded bigot who does nothing but "proselytize" not because I actually love the Faith, because no one loves the Faith, we're just "using it to justify our bigotry." If you see any thread by me on here that isn't "proselytizing," I can't explain that because that's obviously impossible; because again, all I've ever done on here is "proselytize."


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30 Jun 2020, 10:01 pm



TOTEM:
Just Another Name for A Statue of 'A Saint', Now;
Or A Sculpted Word on a Page Like 'Jesus' that is no longer
An Actual Name of the Living Being With Breath that has become a Valuable
Object Created As Sacred For Folks in Sects of Christian Language of Religion; And
Where this Sacred Object of Jesus is Venerated to the Point of Demand; that unless
one Falls on Bended Knee to Worship this Human Sculpted Word of 'Jesus'; Guess what,
You ALL are Gonna Burn in Hell Forever, for not Worshipping That 'Particular Trump Tower';
Some folks, Value the 'Statue of Jesus in a Word on a Page'; And Some Folks pay the Symbol
of 'Jesus' as No Value at All, in other particular views of life, And Associated Sacred Symbols
That Bind And Bond For Religion; Like What kind of Four-Wheel-Drive-Do-Ya-Love, Ford or Chevrolet;
True, Some folks practice the Religion of Chevrolet, Life Long; And Others Do Ford, Unless they consider
it an Acronym "For Fix Or Repair Daily" as that is How Folks who Do not Belong to the 'Ford Religion' May
Denigrate it. In Other Religions, Like the "Honda Religion", Those Cars Are Worshipped Truly More Like 'Real
God Lovers', Lasting at Least 200,000 Miles, if Properly Worshipped and Pampered With Oil Changes and the such.

And sure, Then There are Sports And Teams; Yes, Religions Like The 'New York Jets' in 'the UniVerse of Pro Football'.
They Once Had A 'Jesus' Named Joe Namath, back in my Earlier Days of Youth too.

'Totems' Aren't Going Away; The Totems of Christian Sects Are Fading Away
As Every Church That Closes its Doors on Another Day;
Religions And Totems Come and Go; No Doubt that
the Indians of Canada didn't wanna See their
Religions And Totems Forcefully Be taken
Away too And Replaced by Christianity
Forcefully As Was Done; But That's Life;
it Changes; Wars Are Even Fought Over
Changes of Religions
And Totems
too; But
Again that's
Life; This is no surprise at all.

Basic Definition of Totem From Professors Wiki:

"A 'totem' (Ojibwe doodem) is a spirit being, sacred object,
or symbol that serves as an emblem of a group of people,
such as a family, clan, lineage, or tribe."

Humans Have Been Creating 'Sacred Objects' As Symbols for Bonding And Binding
Over Their Particular 'Religion' Inherent in How We Do Bond And Bind Over Objects We
Create As Sacred Symbols as Long as Human Histories come and go in the ArtiFacts of Humanity that still exist.

True, We Own Nothing In This Life; Star Dust We Come From, Star Dust We Go; All That Truly
Belongs to Us Is Our Living Breath for Now; Pharaohs Built The Pyramids, Hoping to
Live Forever, for their Names in 'KA' of Spirit to Go On; One Day Those Pyramids
Will Turn to Dust; As Will All Traces of Human Civilization, in Around 300 Million
Years, If we are ever Foolish Enough to continue to do stuff like Not Wearing Masks;
Short Sighted, Ignorant, During Pandemics as there is another Potential one Brewing in China now.

Nothing is Our own; But it's true, As Long as We Are Human, We Will Bind And Bond Over Totems;
We Will Always Venerate the Tools We Create as Sacred and Holy Extensions of our Breath;
It does Seem That 'Godzilla', OtherWise Known As A Symbol For Nature, Taking Back Balance is
Reigning More As 'Spirit Animal' Totem Now; Seriously, The United States is a symbol for Taking
Whatever the 'God' We Want From Nature in More than We Give Back; As The United States Uses 40
Percent of the World's Environmental Resources as Just A Fraction of the Population of that;
So, who is gonna throw the
First Stone of
'Which Statue'
Is Deadlier now;
True, Here at least, We
All Worship 'Killing Statues', in one way or another of Short
Sighted, Ignorance Now. There is No Liberty, When We Destroy the Only
Face of God We Have; The Nature that Supports us; the Nature We aRe.

'Go Godzilla'; Show Humans What Happens when they take more than they give;

Or Just Another Little Messenger Like a Bat coming With 'Wrath of Nature', Without 'a Care' for
What We think
Or Whatever
Statue/Totem
We Worship now, Bonding Over the Symbols;
Again, No Lasting Liberty Without Balance, Now;
Humans Come and Humans Go; in a blink of existence now;
Star Dust We Come, Star Dust We Go; if Only We Will Appreciate
the Gift of Breath in Balance now, Then We Come longer and 'Chew the Fat' some more...

The Essence of Why Folks Venerate What they create, is the Feel Good Neurohormones
Like Oxytocin; And Neurochemicals, Like The Eraser of Anxiety, Serotonin, in Comfort of
Humanity Peace And Harmony too; As Whatever Folks Venerate in Worship of Gratitude,
The Essence Is As Real as Human Living Breath now.

i Venerate Colors of 'FLoWeRS' And REAL FRiEnDSHIP LOVE THE SAME FOR FREE; RETAINING ALL THE
HEAVENLY Real BENEFITS Within THAT FOLKS STRUGGLE FOR WITH WHATEVER WE CREATE THAT
EVENTUALLY TURNS TO DUST OR RUSTS; Or Is taken Away As Human Clothes; Yet, Naked Love
Breathes, as Classically evolved; No Matter If all the Cultural Clothes are taken Away.

The Love We Garden; The Love We Tender; Yes, The Love We Give,
Lives On, Whether We Water A Flower or the Eyes of a Loved
one to Give, When We no longer Exist on this Planet.

i'd Rather Worship God As Breath
Than What Rusts Quicker as 'Stuff'
And Turns to Cold Dust Within as Dead.

Love is the Real Gold Dust Born of Star Breath.

Truly Nothing is Our Own; But That Breath, Living Or Living Dead Now, Within;
As We May Give And Share It With All Others; Yes, The Rest of Living Nature With Least Harm..:)


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30 Jun 2020, 10:30 pm

Greatshield17 wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
You're still celebrating a genocidal monster GS. This is a turd that can't be polished.

The only thing I can glean from this post is, that he is a "genocidal monster" because you say so. That's all I can glean, no refutation of my arguments, no new information, nothing, just a rejection of the arguments.


I'm not a Catholic theologian, so your religious justifications aren't a concern for me, just his documented actions.


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cyberdad
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30 Jun 2020, 10:55 pm

I visited the monasteries in San Luis Obispo and San Diego that Serra built when travelling with my parents in California 1980. The monks seemed quite pious and I can actually remember prominent statues of Serra in San Luis Obispo over a fountain (so my experience with this saint actually predates your birth goldenshields).

You never asked me what I thought of the removal of statues (you assumed I was siding with the native Americans when infact all I was doing was reporting how they felt about Serra and their motive/intent behind removing his statues.

I think removing the statues of Serra also removes historical artifacts. I would instead include a plaque commemorating all the Indians who he enslaved so visitors in future can learn more about the true impact of his missions.



Greatshield17
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30 Jun 2020, 11:45 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Greatshield17 wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
You're still celebrating a genocidal monster GS. This is a turd that can't be polished.

The only thing I can glean from this post is, that he is a "genocidal monster" because you say so. That's all I can glean, no refutation of my arguments, no new information, nothing, just a rejection of the arguments.


I'm not a Catholic theologian, so your religious justifications aren't a concern for me, just his documented actions.

Actually logic pre-dates Thomism and Catholic philosophy, we do use it a lot though. :lol:


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Don't bother with me, I'm just a narrow-minded bigot who does nothing but "proselytize" not because I actually love the Faith, because no one loves the Faith, we're just "using it to justify our bigotry." If you see any thread by me on here that isn't "proselytizing," I can't explain that because that's obviously impossible; because again, all I've ever done on here is "proselytize."


Greatshield17
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30 Jun 2020, 11:47 pm

cyberdad wrote:
I visited the monasteries in San Luis Obispo and San Diego that Serra built when travelling with my parents in California 1980. The monks seemed quite pious and I can actually remember prominent statues of Serra in San Luis Obispo over a fountain (so my experience with this saint actually predates your birth goldenshields).

You never asked me what I thought of the removal of statues (you assumed I was siding with the native Americans when infact all I was doing was reporting how they felt about Serra and their motive/intent behind removing his statues.

I think removing the statues of Serra also removes historical artifacts. I would instead include a plaque commemorating all the Indians who he enslaved so visitors in future can learn more about the true impact of his missions.

How is it that those monks weren't enslaved and yet the indigenous peoples were?

Read my arguments.


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Don't bother with me, I'm just a narrow-minded bigot who does nothing but "proselytize" not because I actually love the Faith, because no one loves the Faith, we're just "using it to justify our bigotry." If you see any thread by me on here that isn't "proselytizing," I can't explain that because that's obviously impossible; because again, all I've ever done on here is "proselytize."


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01 Jul 2020, 12:10 am

Greatshield17 wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Greatshield17 wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
You're still celebrating a genocidal monster GS. This is a turd that can't be polished.

The only thing I can glean from this post is, that he is a "genocidal monster" because you say so. That's all I can glean, no refutation of my arguments, no new information, nothing, just a rejection of the arguments.


I'm not a Catholic theologian, so your religious justifications aren't a concern for me, just his documented actions.

Actually logic pre-dates Thomism and Catholic philosophy, we do use it a lot though. :lol:


Let me know when you finally make use of logic in an argument.


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Greatshield17
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01 Jul 2020, 12:21 am

aghogday wrote:


TOTEM:
Just Another Name for A Statue of 'A Saint', Now;
Or A Sculpted Word on a Page Like 'Jesus' that is no longer
An Actual Name of the Living Being With Breath that has become a Valuable
Object Created As Sacred For Folks in Sects of Christian Language of Religion; And
Where this Sacred Object of Jesus is Venerated to the Point of Demand; that unless
one Falls on Bended Knee to Worship this Human Sculpted Word of 'Jesus'; Guess what,
You ALL are Gonna Burn in Hell Forever, for not Worshipping That 'Particular Trump Tower';
Some folks, Value the 'Statue of Jesus in a Word on a Page'; And Some Folks pay the Symbol
of 'Jesus' as No Value at All, in other particular views of life, And Associated Sacred Symbols
That Bind And Bond For Religion; Like What kind of Four-Wheel-Drive-Do-Ya-Love, Ford or Chevrolet;
True, Some folks practice the Religion of Chevrolet, Life Long; And Others Do Ford, Unless they consider
it an Acronym "For Fix Or Repair Daily" as that is How Folks who Do not Belong to the 'Ford Religion' May
Denigrate it. In Other Religions, Like the "Honda Religion", Those Cars Are Worshipped Truly More Like 'Real
God Lovers', Lasting at Least 200,000 Miles, if Properly Worshipped and Pampered With Oil Changes and the such.

And sure, Then There are Sports And Teams; Yes, Religions Like The 'New York Jets' in 'the UniVerse of Pro Football'.
They Once Had A 'Jesus' Named Joe Namath, back in my Earlier Days of Youth too.

'Totems' Aren't Going Away; The Totems of Christian Sects Are Fading Away
As Every Church That Closes its Doors on Another Day;
Religions And Totems Come and Go; No Doubt that
the Indians of Canada didn't wanna See their
Religions And Totems Forcefully Be taken
Away too And Replaced by Christianity
Forcefully As Was Done; But That's Life;
it Changes; Wars Are Even Fought Over
Changes of Religions
And Totems
too; But
Again that's
Life; This is no surprise at all.

Basic Definition of Totem From Professors Wiki:

"A 'totem' (Ojibwe doodem) is a spirit being, sacred object,
or symbol that serves as an emblem of a group of people,
such as a family, clan, lineage, or tribe."

Humans Have Been Creating 'Sacred Objects' As Symbols for Bonding And Binding
Over Their Particular 'Religion' Inherent in How We Do Bond And Bind Over Objects We
Create As Sacred Symbols as Long as Human Histories come and go in the ArtiFacts of Humanity that still exist.

True, We Own Nothing In This Life; Star Dust We Come From, Star Dust We Go; All That Truly
Belongs to Us Is Our Living Breath for Now; Pharaohs Built The Pyramids, Hoping to
Live Forever, for their Names in 'KA' of Spirit to Go On; One Day Those Pyramids
Will Turn to Dust; As Will All Traces of Human Civilization, in Around 300 Million
Years, If we are ever Foolish Enough to continue to do stuff like Not Wearing Masks;
Short Sighted, Ignorant, During Pandemics as there is another Potential one Brewing in China now.

Nothing is Our own; But it's true, As Long as We Are Human, We Will Bind And Bond Over Totems;
We Will Always Venerate the Tools We Create as Sacred and Holy Extensions of our Breath;
It does Seem That 'Godzilla', OtherWise Known As A Symbol For Nature, Taking Back Balance is
Reigning More As 'Spirit Animal' Totem Now; Seriously, The United States is a symbol for Taking
Whatever the 'God' We Want From Nature in More than We Give Back; As The United States Uses 40
Percent of the World's Environmental Resources as Just A Fraction of the Population of that;
So, who is gonna throw the
First Stone of
'Which Statue'
Is Deadlier now;
True, Here at least, We
All Worship 'Killing Statues', in one way or another of Short
Sighted, Ignorance Now. There is No Liberty, When We Destroy the Only
Face of God We Have; The Nature that Supports us; the Nature We aRe.

'Go Godzilla'; Show Humans What Happens when they take more than they give;

Or Just Another Little Messenger Like a Bat coming With 'Wrath of Nature', Without 'a Care' for
What We think
Or Whatever
Statue/Totem
We Worship now, Bonding Over the Symbols;
Again, No Lasting Liberty Without Balance, Now;
Humans Come and Humans Go; in a blink of existence now;
Star Dust We Come, Star Dust We Go; if Only We Will Appreciate
the Gift of Breath in Balance now, Then We Come longer and 'Chew the Fat' some more...

The Essence of Why Folks Venerate What they create, is the Feel Good Neurohormones
Like Oxytocin; And Neurochemicals, Like The Eraser of Anxiety, Serotonin, in Comfort of
Humanity Peace And Harmony too; As Whatever Folks Venerate in Worship of Gratitude,
The Essence Is As Real as Human Living Breath now.

i Venerate Colors of 'FLoWeRS' And REAL FRiEnDSHIP LOVE THE SAME FOR FREE; RETAINING ALL THE
HEAVENLY Real BENEFITS Within THAT FOLKS STRUGGLE FOR WITH WHATEVER WE CREATE THAT
EVENTUALLY TURNS TO DUST OR RUSTS; Or Is taken Away As Human Clothes; Yet, Naked Love
Breathes, as Classically evolved; No Matter If all the Cultural Clothes are taken Away.

The Love We Garden; The Love We Tender; Yes, The Love We Give,
Lives On, Whether We Water A Flower or the Eyes of a Loved
one to Give, When We no longer Exist on this Planet.

i'd Rather Worship God As Breath
Than What Rusts Quicker as 'Stuff'
And Turns to Cold Dust Within as Dead.

Love is the Real Gold Dust Born of Star Breath.

Truly Nothing is Our Own; But That Breath, Living Or Living Dead Now, Within;
As We May Give And Share It With All Others; Yes, The Rest of Living Nature With Least Harm..:)

Some say Godzilla actually represented the trauma of the Japanese people, after President Truman decided it would be perfectly moral to harness the power of splitting a "grain of stardust" to incinerate thousands innocent Japanese civilians. (As well as demolish what was then, the biggest Cathedral in all of Asia, as one guy put it, "Truman was able to accomplish in a few minutes, what centuries of persecution under the Japanese Shoguns failed to accomplish!" America, *censored* yeah!! !) The Venerable Archbishop Fulton Sheen said that this act, and its disregard for human life, marked the beginning of the modern day culture of death, a culture where bodies and souls are disregarded and the toll of deliberate deaths surpasses any atrocity (except the contemporary Communist regimes of the 20th Century) in the past. (I'm not adding this to draw attention away from St. Junipero's Missions by the way, if anything given the comments I'm receiving I much rather that people on here pay much more attention to this because they're not; I'm just adding this because I think it's noteworthy.) But the Americans weren't done yet, they then bombed the northern city of Akita just before the end of the war; again totally disregarding the fact that it was a civilian target and killing thousands of men, women and children. It's interesting to note that something very interesting happened in Akita several decades later, something that most Catholics, myself included, believe is no coincidence:


_________________
Don't bother with me, I'm just a narrow-minded bigot who does nothing but "proselytize" not because I actually love the Faith, because no one loves the Faith, we're just "using it to justify our bigotry." If you see any thread by me on here that isn't "proselytizing," I can't explain that because that's obviously impossible; because again, all I've ever done on here is "proselytize."


Greatshield17
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01 Jul 2020, 12:27 am

funeralxempire wrote:
Greatshield17 wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:

I'm not a Catholic theologian, so your religious justifications aren't a concern for me, just his documented actions.

Actually logic pre-dates Thomism and Catholic philosophy, we do use it a lot though. :lol:


Let me know when you finally make use of logic in an argument.

Okay then, I made arguments against the claim the St. Junipero's Missions were genocidal,
you said:
funeralxempire wrote:
You're still celebrating a genocidal monster GS. This is a turd that can't be polished.

You made no reference to my arguments at all, let alone any refutation, there are none in that statement apart from a vague recognition that I made arguments.

Therefore, it can be logically concluded that:
Greatshield17 wrote:
The only thing I can glean from this post is, that he is a "genocidal monster" because you say so. That's all I can glean, no refutation of my arguments, no new information, nothing, just a rejection of the arguments.


_________________
Don't bother with me, I'm just a narrow-minded bigot who does nothing but "proselytize" not because I actually love the Faith, because no one loves the Faith, we're just "using it to justify our bigotry." If you see any thread by me on here that isn't "proselytizing," I can't explain that because that's obviously impossible; because again, all I've ever done on here is "proselytize."