White man and woman deface Black Lives Matter mural in CA.

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Shrapnel
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22 Jul 2020, 4:46 pm

"Black Lives Matter" should be an uncontroversial declaration of universal equality. But some Black lives are evidently more equal than others. The lives of the 250 or so Black people killed by police each year seem to matter infinitely more to activists, media and the democratic party than the nearly 10,000 Black homicide victims killed in 2017, the most recent year for which full data are available. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr68/nvsr68_09-508.pdf

All lives lost in violence are to be mourned, and a civilized society should dedicate itself to rooting out the causes of such violence, not on deploying a slogan to make a political cause from just some of them.

Maybe they have already done so and I just haven't read it, but when I read that BLM comes out in support of charter schools in predominantly Black inner cities, in support of subsidies for parents wanting to send their children to charter schools in inner cities and states that intact families with both a mother and father are the best chance of a child succeeding in life, then I will be more likely to believe they really stand for their organizational name.



goldfish21
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22 Jul 2020, 7:05 pm

:roll: Derangement? :roll: You live in Sweden, not the USA. I live 10 miles from the US border and have been there countless times. Systemic racism favouring whites has been going on there for 400 years - which is why African American household net worth is 10% that of white Americans. These are facts and you are uninformed.


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cyberdad
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22 Jul 2020, 7:15 pm

Shrapnel wrote:
The lives of the 250 or so Black people killed by police each year seem to matter infinitely more to activists, media and the democratic party than the nearly 10,000 Black homicide victims killed in 2017, the most recent year for which full data are available. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr68/nvsr68_09-508.pdf
All lives lost in violence are to be mourned, and a civilized society should dedicate itself to rooting out the causes of such violence, not on deploying a slogan to make a political cause from just some of them.


I think that's the point. "Black" Americans living in old segregationist ghettoes (which they didn't originally choose to live in but are now stuck there due to economic reasons) are already living in fear of criminals and then also have to contend with police brutality. The police are supposed to be helping "protect and serve" not making things worse.



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23 Jul 2020, 2:42 am

The presence of racism, even systemic racism, does not a White Supremacy make.


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cyberdad
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23 Jul 2020, 3:37 am

Wolfram87 wrote:
The presence of racism, even systemic racism, does not a White Supremacy make.


All in the eye of the beholder isn't it...



Shrapnel
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23 Jul 2020, 3:48 am

cyberdad wrote:

"Black" Americans living in old segregationist ghettoes (which they didn't originally choose to live in but are now stuck there due to economic reasons) are already living in fear of criminals and then also have to contend with police brutality. The police are supposed to be helping "protect and serve" not making things worse.


During New York’s 1970s financial crisis, the New York Daily News ran a famous headline about then-President Gerald Ford —“Ford to City: Drop Dead.”

Here’s the update—“Progressives to Cities: Drop Dead.”

People living and working in these cities, most of whom consider themselves liberal, are being sold out by progressive politicians and activists blinded by politics to the quality of daily life.

Progressive prosecutors refuse to prosecute and cops are holding back because progressive mayors and governors don’t have their backs.



goldfish21
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23 Jul 2020, 3:55 am

Wolfram87 wrote:
The presence of racism, even systemic racism, does not a White Supremacy make.


When the system that’s designed, created, and perpetuates favouritism to whites.. that’s exactly what it does.


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Wolfram87
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23 Jul 2020, 3:59 am

cyberdad wrote:
Wolfram87 wrote:
The presence of racism, even systemic racism, does not a White Supremacy make.


All in the eye of the beholder isn't it...


Not really, no. In an actual racial supremacist society, systemic racism would not be seen as a problem. Hell, it would probably be enforced by law.


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goldfish21
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23 Jul 2020, 1:33 pm

Wolfram87 wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Wolfram87 wrote:
The presence of racism, even systemic racism, does not a White Supremacy make.


All in the eye of the beholder isn't it...


Not really, no. In an actual racial supremacist society, systemic racism would not be seen as a problem. Hell, it would probably be enforced by law.


:roll:

1) Those who it benefits don’t view it as a problem, those who it discriminates against do.

2) It Has been enforced by government/law & public policy (that also shapes financial industry policies etc) in the USA.

Why are you continuing to defend the indefensible?


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Wolfram87
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23 Jul 2020, 2:35 pm

1) Ask a random set of regular Americans in they are in favour of racism. If the US was truly a White Supremacy (that had a black president for 8 years, natch), they wouldn't even understand the question; the answer would be an obvious yes. Why would calling anyone a racist be an effective way of shaming them if it was seen as a just and proper way of thinking?


2) Which is why Obama was tossed out and executed before he could take office, right? Oh wait...

How many multi-billion dollar corporations have tripped over themselves to throw piles of money at (and made sure to let everyone know how much they support) BLM? Macdonalds, Google, Amazon, Netflix, Disney, Ubisoft, Puma, Apple, the list goes on for quite a bit. For some odd reason, they seem to think that the people of the alleged White Supremacy USA will consider that a good and virtuous thing that will reflect well on them. How very curious.


You saying something is White Supremacy does not make it into White Supremacy, and me arguing the opposite does not make me a defender of White Supremacy. You're tilting at windmills, and rather gracelessly too.

Racism exists. Even institutional racism exists. Neither exist to the extent that BLM proposes. Neither of them will be resolved with the solutions that BLM demand. In they, it would make things much worse.


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goldfish21
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23 Jul 2020, 2:39 pm

You are wrong.


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Wolfram87
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23 Jul 2020, 2:49 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
You are wrong.


I'll take that as a concession of all my points.


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goldfish21
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23 Jul 2020, 4:54 pm

Wolfram87 wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
You are wrong.


I'll take that as a concession of all my points.


No. Take it as I have better things to do with my time than point out the absurdity of your all or nothing thinking that because Obama wasn’t assassinated the USA can’t possibly be a racist nation. Ridiculous and you know it.


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cyberdad
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24 Jul 2020, 12:59 am

Wolfram87 wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Wolfram87 wrote:
The presence of racism, even systemic racism, does not a White Supremacy make.


All in the eye of the beholder isn't it...


Not really, no. In an actual racial supremacist society, systemic racism would not be seen as a problem. Hell, it would probably be enforced by law.

Conservation of systemic racism is retention of white privilege is thus maintaining white supremacy. Doesn't require tremendous level of mental gymnastics to make the connection.



Wolfram87
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24 Jul 2020, 1:50 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Conservation of systemic racism is retention of white privilege is thus maintaining white supremacy. Doesn't require tremendous level of mental gymnastics to make the connection.


"Mental gymnastics" refers to the convoluted and contorted pattern of thought that people believing in absurdities have to employ to try to make their position seem valid, so I guess you're unintentionally correct. As for "conservation of systemic racism", do you belive that there's more or less systemic racism now than in the 60's? If you concede that there is less, where is you case for this "conservation"?

And regarding "retention of white privilege is thus maintaining white supremacy"; do you make any distinction between the advantages of belonging to the majority group and the "supremacy" of the majority group?



goldfish21 wrote:
Wolfram87 wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
You are wrong.


I'll take that as a concession of all my points.


No. Take it as I have better things to do with my time than point out the absurdity of your all or nothing thinking that because Obama wasn’t assassinated the USA can’t possibly be a racist nation. Ridiculous and you know it.



You are in no position to dictate how I shall be taking things. Concession all the way.

I did not say "assassinated". I said "executed". As in "murdered by the state". The alleged White Supremacy state. That handed the highest office in the country and the world to a black man. And then did it again.

Between the two of us, it is you who are guilty of all or nothing thinking. I look at a nation of 300 odd million people and accept that some of them are going to be racists, and some of those racists are going to manage to congregate in positions of power and cause problems that will need to be sorted out. You look at that selfsame nation and proclaim that it's rotten to the core for that reason, and must therefore be burned to the ground. There's a world of difference between "a nation where racism exists" and a "white supremacist nation"

Yes, I understand, your time is precious. All those Nazis lurking just out of view won't chase themselves.


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goldfish21
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25 Jul 2020, 12:20 am

Your thinking is ridiculous and not worthy of my time & energy to refute.


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