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The_Walrus
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19 Jul 2020, 5:03 pm

Natural law might have been a sensible position a thousand years ago when people were more superstitious, but these days we know that it is not true. Human nature is not inherently good. Humanity has evolved through a long and brutal process of natural selection. Humans are inherently violent and murderous. Nature is inherently brutal and deadly.

As David Hume said, just because something “is” a certain way doesn’t mean it “should be” that way.

Frankly a lot of Aquinas’ precepts are fairly transparently him attempting to impose his own personal morality on the rest of the world.

For example, his belief that it is morally necessary to worship the Christian God is clearly nonsense. Many good people do not worship the Christian God, and indeed while Christians are often quite good at being nice, following Christianity often seems to conflict with living a moral life. The teachings of Christianity are often rather bigoted, for example, and we see that many self-professed Christians who are otherwise good people hold bigoted beliefs as a direct result of their Christianity. While this is certainly not true of all Christians, a very large subsection are homophobic or hold backwards views about women or trans people. And we also see many Christians who reject scientific knowledge when it conflicts with their Christian beliefs - without wishing to be unduly hyperbolic, to me the way that Christianity cuts these people off from reality is a mundane form of evil.

Similarly, Aquinas’s belief that reproduction is morally necessary. Is that true? There is nothing wrong with reproducing if you choose to and you take good care of your children, but I’m not sure it could rationally be described as morally necessary. Some people take Aquinas’ promotion of reproduction to an extreme, using it to justify suppressing sexual freedom. This is contrary to human nature. There is a huge variety in human sexual desires, and this is largely healthy and natural, particularly when practiced safely. Again, this is a clear instance of Aquinas and his followers imposing their will on the rest of us, contrary to both human nature and most ethical theories, including the best ones.



Greatshield17
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19 Jul 2020, 5:33 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
Natural law might have been a sensible position a thousand years ago when people were more superstitious, but these days we know that it is not true. Human nature is not inherently good. Humanity has evolved through a long and brutal process of natural selection. Humans are inherently violent and murderous. Nature is inherently brutal and deadly.

As David Hume said, just because something “is” a certain way doesn’t mean it “should be” that way.

Frankly a lot of Aquinas’ precepts are fairly transparently him attempting to impose his own personal morality on the rest of the world.

For example, his belief that it is morally necessary to worship the Christian God is clearly nonsense. Many good people do not worship the Christian God, and indeed while Christians are often quite good at being nice, following Christianity often seems to conflict with living a moral life. The teachings of Christianity are often rather bigoted, for example, and we see that many self-professed Christians who are otherwise good people hold bigoted beliefs as a direct result of their Christianity. While this is certainly not true of all Christians, a very large subsection are homophobic or hold backwards views about women or trans people. And we also see many Christians who reject scientific knowledge when it conflicts with their Christian beliefs - without wishing to be unduly hyperbolic, to me the way that Christianity cuts these people off from reality is a mundane form of evil.

Similarly, Aquinas’s belief that reproduction is morally necessary. Is that true? There is nothing wrong with reproducing if you choose to and you take good care of your children, but I’m not sure it could rationally be described as morally necessary. Some people take Aquinas’ promotion of reproduction to an extreme, using it to justify suppressing sexual freedom. This is contrary to human nature. There is a huge variety in human sexual desires, and this is largely healthy and natural, particularly when practiced safely. Again, this is a clear instance of Aquinas and his followers imposing their will on the rest of us, contrary to both human nature and most ethical theories, including the best ones.

I'd love to stay and debate, (and frankly point out how you hilariously contradict yourself at the end.) but even though it's Sunday, I still have a lot to do. I just stopped by to post that awesome sermon earlier today, because I felt it was apropos considering what's happening out in the world right now. Maybe some other time I guess?


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kraftiekortie
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20 Jul 2020, 7:44 am

I believe there is inherent “goodness” to humans.....but that there’s a strong social-Darwinist element to humans, as well.



vermontsavant
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20 Jul 2020, 8:50 am

It sounds like people are referencing the phrase from Genesis " Yetzer Hara" (the devious inclination) which would later inspire the Christian "sinful nature theory".Which Calvin would then interpret as " the total depravity theory"


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XFilesGeek
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20 Jul 2020, 9:09 am

"Tradition is just peer pressure from dead people."


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Fnord
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20 Jul 2020, 9:14 am

Humans are inherently prideful, greedy, prone to anger, envious, filled with lust, gluttonous, and lazy.

Humans have to be taught to suppress their inherent nature and act "civilized".

Traditions are one way of teaching this.

Religious brainwashing is another -- make everyone fear authority, and they will be much more civilized.


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aghogday
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20 Jul 2020, 1:47 pm



Humans Who Are Loved By Parents And Raised by a Small Common Village
Are Inherently Loving, Good Natured, And Easy to Laughter as Life is 'Bonobo Play'
When Natural And Naked and Not So Encumbered by too Many Cultural Clothes of Tools;
Finding the Foundation of All Will And Strength in Focus is Love And Grace in Balance of
Living With Nature Wild And Loving Free As Of Course Domesticated Wolves Will Fall 'Prey' to
Domesticated Sheep and No Longer Forage Together Paw-in-Paw, Hand-in-Hand NoW as It
Were And Still Is For
Humans Born and
Bred that Way;
Sociology Teaches
that the Most Peaceful Societies
Are Small, Working Together For
Subsistence When Giving And Sharing
Freely is Common Meaning And Purpose
In Life And In Villages Where the 'Work of the Night'
From the Age of Sexual Maturity is the common Aim
For The Newer Crop of Humanity to Rise in Cooperation
There are not even any Words for 'Masturbation' As the 'Missionary
Position' in Life
Is to Only
Create
And
BReATHE LiFE;
i don't KNoW WHere the
Rest of 'You' Folks come
From but 'my Planet' is
The correct one the
Nature of Human
That Is Mostly
Naked, Wild
Loving,
And Free
WHere Love
is the Tradition
That Truly Breathes
In Culture of Fully Living
Thriving Dancing Singing Around
Campfire Moonlit Drum Beat Nights
In Just Another 'Autotelic Flow' Together
Where Heaven Beats Within for A Garden of Eden Humans
Where Every Color of FLoWeRS Blooming Makes A Soul Orgasm
of 'Frission' Reality Divine From Head to Toe Together, Paw-in-Paw,
Hand-in-Hand, And in Some Cases Hairy Wild And Loving Bonobo Free; Hmm,
Perhaps Y'all are missing 'Furry' 'Baphomet' 'Pan' 'Breasts'; Metaphors for Living
Loving God/ALL/NaTuRE TRuLY Free Breathing...

i surely and easily Verily will provide
Irrefutable Evidence that
This Wild and Free
Culture Exists
but Most
of You Have
Seen my Evidence;
Yet, Innumerable Other
Sources of PROOF, Available upon Request;
ReAlly, Honestly, Human Wild Heaven (Love) Exists Free For Real NoW; It Seems
Yet it Never Will Now, If We Do Not Take the Effort to Create These Colors of Heaven Now.
When i Come 'Here', There is Only Mostly 'Gray' to see without Colors Most oF aLL But True
i Do Not Live here...
i just
visit
Now
and then....

-TG


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