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Biscuitman
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17 Jul 2020, 2:59 am

I am looking in from afar on this so plenty of detail and conversation I would not see, but on the basis of how the current leader behaves I would much rather see someone other than Trump run my country.

I am baffled by how much of a free pass he appears to get when he appears to seemingly lie and mislead so much. He is in an incredibly privileged position yet people seem to just be completely ok with him saying untruths day after day? seems crazy to me.



auntblabby
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17 Jul 2020, 3:10 am

Biscuitman wrote:
I am looking in from afar on this so plenty of detail and conversation I would not see, but on the basis of how the current leader behaves I would much rather see someone other than Trump run my country.

I am baffled by how much of a free pass he appears to get when he appears to seemingly lie and mislead so much. He is in an incredibly privileged position yet people seem to just be completely ok with him saying untruths day after day? seems crazy to me.

because the only thing some people care about, is watching the world burn.



The_Walrus
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17 Jul 2020, 8:02 am

VegetableMan wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
That's nice, be an apoligist for war criminals. Do you expect anyone to take you seriously after that?

Yeah, he did say he was a "great, great man..."


Your problem is your all or nothing thinking. There is no perfect candidate to vote for so you rail against all choices.

Everyone else accepts the objective reality that Biden is a better candidate than trump and should be elected to help steer America out of this trumpian nightmare.


Oh, gosh, I didn't realize "everyone else" believed as you do. Sorry, you're not even close. Lots of folks are as tired of voting the lesser of the two evils because the country keeps getting worse -- and that's why we have Trump in the first place.

The nighmare began long before you were even born.

Yes, it’s obviously not true that everyone prefers Biden to Trump. It looks like somewhere around 50% of voters intend to vote for Biden, 40% intend to vote for Trump, and the other 10% haven’t made up their minds. It is noticeable that Biden is much more popular than Hillary Clinton though. He seems to be perceived as much more trustworthy, particularly by voters in the Midwest. The anti-Trump vote also seems to be much larger, with lots of former Republicans prepared to vote Trump out.

It’s interesting that you think the country keeps getting worse. By most measures, the country has improved significantly in your lifetime. People have a better standard of living, people are richer, living longer, more likely to be employed, better racial equality, better gender equality, better healthcare, better education, lots of previously common diseases have been greatly reduced.

Obviously you have taken some prominent backwards steps on criminal justice, the militarisation of the police, restrictions on immigration, and the expansion of the surveillance state, but it’s very hard to paint a picture of America consistently going backwards. You’ve had good presidents and politicians on both sides of the isle for most of the last 50 years, even though there’s an increasing chasm in both politics and competency between the two parties. People might not like everything about Reagan and Bush Snr but they were damn good at what they did.


People on the right always think things are getting worse because they do not like change. Racists were even unhappy when black people were getting more freedom and then being included. I am pretty sure misogynists were not happy when women got more rights and couldn't beat them anymore or put them away in a mental hospital.

I am pretty sure ableists were not happy when inclusion came out for special need kids and when they could also be included in a public school.

To all these people, our country is getting worse as people get more rights.


Do you think slinging tired political rhetoric is really a good argument? First off, you're conflating two seperate issues. You're talking about equalitarian movements, driven primarily by the people. FDR once said that it's up to the people to force him to do the right thing. Thankfully, he stepped up to the plate and passed some good legislation.

What's "getting worse" is corruption in government. The Dems of today are moderate Pubs at best; neoconservatives at worst (like Obama and Hillary.)

The Dems of today are a very long way from the Republican Party. Check out Joe Biden’s actual policy platform. Does any Republican support two years of free college, universal healthcare, massive investment in fighting climate change?

Neoconservatives are culturally conservative. I don’t think anyone could accuse Obama or Clinton of being conservative. Indeed, they were detested by conservatives. They were also much more doveish than the Runsfelds of the world. The bloody stain on Obama’s presidency is his failure to stop Bashar’s attacks on his own people.



CubsBullsBears
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17 Jul 2020, 11:55 am

Biscuitman wrote:
I am looking in from afar on this so plenty of detail and conversation I would not see, but on the basis of how the current leader behaves I would much rather see someone other than Trump run my country.

I am baffled by how much of a free pass he appears to get when he appears to seemingly lie and mislead so much. He is in an incredibly privileged position yet people seem to just be completely ok with him saying untruths day after day? seems crazy to me.
^This



auntblabby
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17 Jul 2020, 11:57 am

IMHO the principalities themselves are protecting the present gang of sociopaths in power. i wonder how much longer before they want even more bang for their buck?



VegetableMan
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17 Jul 2020, 12:10 pm

Biden doesn't support universal healthcare, ie., Medicare for all. In fact, he has pretty strongly that he will veto it on cost alone. Translation: "I will roll over for big pharm and the insurance companies just like Obama did."

How wonderful! He won't even support universal healthcare during a pandemic.


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auntblabby
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17 Jul 2020, 12:13 pm

once again, as bismarck said, politics is the art of the POSSIBLE, the attainable, the 2nd best. that is all we can expect out of it here. biden is not a transformative pol, but he isn't trumpy, and that is all we can expect. at least he won't reverse us to the mess that was the situation for 40+ million folk pre-PPACA or even pre-EMTALA which the GOP just won't quit pushing.



CubsBullsBears
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17 Jul 2020, 12:26 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
The Dems of today are a very long way from the Republican Party. Check out Joe Biden’s actual policy platform. Does any Republican support two years of free college, universal healthcare, massive investment in fighting climate change?
The message I've been trying to get across this whole thread is that the little I ask of republicans is that for the good of this country to not worry about their own beliefs and think way more about putting an end to this pandemic. If they don't do that, that's quite heartless of them.



auntblabby
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17 Jul 2020, 12:29 pm

a party/philosophy that bitterly opposed universal healthcare for a century now, cannot be accused of "having a heart."



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17 Jul 2020, 12:50 pm

CubsBullsBears wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
The Dems of today are a very long way from the Republican Party. Check out Joe Biden’s actual policy platform. Does any Republican support two years of free college, universal healthcare, massive investment in fighting climate change?
The message I've been trying to get across this whole thread is that the little I ask of republicans is that for the good of this country to not worry about their own beliefs and think way more about putting an end to this pandemic. If they don't do that, that's quite heartless of them.


What blabby said. But also, I don’t think these people Think that they are intentionally trying to spread the virus and kill more people with this pandemic. It Seems that they are. But I don’t think that They Think that they are, because for some unknown bizarro-world reason they believe what the orange guy tells them and honestly believe that the pandemic is a hoax perpetuated by Democrats to harm trump’s chances of re-election - that the cases & death statistics are fake hyperinflated BS lies crafted to get people to vote against their cult leader. They legit honest to God believe this crap through and through, so their opposition to voting for someone that will work to end this pandemic isn’t out of spite for public health.. it’s because they don’t even believe the entire thing is even real.

I do wonder what they think of the rest of the entire world during this pandemic.. like do they really think that every country in the world shutdown their economy, locked people down, put on face masks, made massive social sacrifices and so on all just to campaign for Joe Biden? :? :roll: :roll: Or is it possible some of these people don’t even Know that the entire world shutdown for this because their only source of news focuses Only on American partisan politics? :? In either event: SO WEIRD!


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17 Jul 2020, 1:03 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
... I don’t think these people Think that they are intentionally trying to spread the virus and kill more people with this pandemic. It Seems that they are. But I don’t think that They Think that they are, because for some unknown bizarro-world reason they believe what the orange guy tells them and honestly believe that the pandemic is a hoax perpetuated by Democrats to harm trump’s chances of re-election - that the cases & death statistics are fake hyperinflated BS lies crafted to get people to vote against their cult leader. They legit honest to God believe this crap through and through, so their opposition to voting for someone that will work to end this pandemic isn’t out of spite for public health.. it’s because they don’t even believe the entire thing is even real.

I do wonder what they think of the rest of the entire world during this pandemic.. like do they really think that every country in the world shutdown their economy, locked people down, put on face masks, made massive social sacrifices and so on all just to campaign for Joe Biden? Or is it possible some of these people don’t even Know that the entire world shutdown for this because their only source of news focuses Only on American partisan politics? In either event: SO WEIRD!
I recently re-installed a CB radio in my truck.  In the past 30 years, channel 19 (27.185 MHz, AM) has mutated from being a truckers' channel to being the local MAGA channel, especially around Yorba Linda and most of Riverside County (California).

The prevailing excuses for not wearing a mask go something like, "Ain't no [gay] governor gonna tell me what to do.  I say let the virus kill off all the old and weak people, and kill all those immigrants too.  Seeing them walk around with their signs and canes and masks makes me sick to look at them. Ain't no need for them to be around when us Americans need jobs, either."

The rhetoric goes swiftly downhill from there.

This is just my opinion, but I think that those people have simply found a kindred spirit in Mr. Trump that gives voice to their own hate-filled ideas regarding euthanasia for all people who are "different".


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aghogday
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17 Jul 2020, 1:11 pm

There are two 'things' the Majority of
'Trump Supporters' Are Not Going To
Be Able to Do Without Come Monday:
Walmart And Home Depot;
Walgreens And CVS;
Target Won't Even
Be an
Option
to Escape
the Favorite
'Trump Shopper
Capitalistic Consumer
Ways' Without a Mask;
Unless 'They Keep
Their Four Wheel
Drives' At Home
For Delivery there
To Reduce Potential More
Killing Fields And Refrigerator
Trucks Required to Store Corpses in Over
Crowded Covid-19-Hospitals; The Frigging
Corporations Have More Soul CuRRenTLY Than Church/Trump Politics.
At Least THere is Some Kind of 'God of Love' Behind Walmart, Etc.. Cash Registers...
Ya Can't
Fight
Private
Corporations
With at Least A Breath of Love;
But Ya Can Do Ya Damndest
to Maim, Injure, And Kill
Folks With Ignorance
For Places That Do
Not Protect Folks From
THeir Own Ignorance.
At Least some Corporations
are Putting Their Big Boy And
Or Girl LoVE Dresses/BRitcheS On...
Thank God of Common F iN Sense NoW;
Jesus F iN Christ Some Folks Won't Lift 'a
Cross' as Light as A Frigging Handkerchief
to
Prevent
Death
to
Other Humans,
Unless they are
Forced By Corporations
to Love a Little bit more than Selfish;
Whatever Works to Save Lives is Kinda
Cool in My
Soul At Least;

The Politics of
Trump Churches;
Overall, Need to Lift some
Love Weights to get stronger than weakest...

No Way Trump Could have Got Elected Without
'the Church' in His Trump Pocket; IT Still Swells in
Support No Matter What Fresh Hell arises on 5th
Avenue Killing
Streets oF iGNoRaNCE.

Yay; GO! GO! Corporations;
At Least Some Organizations
Still BeLiEVE iN (God Love) Enough
to Save Frigging Innocent Actual Breathing Life From Death.


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aghogday
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17 Jul 2020, 1:18 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
CubsBullsBears wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
The Dems of today are a very long way from the Republican Party. Check out Joe Biden’s actual policy platform. Does any Republican support two years of free college, universal healthcare, massive investment in fighting climate change?
The message I've been trying to get across this whole thread is that the little I ask of republicans is that for the good of this country to not worry about their own beliefs and think way more about putting an end to this pandemic. If they don't do that, that's quite heartless of them.


What blabby said. But also, I don’t think these people Think that they are intentionally trying to spread the virus and kill more people with this pandemic. It Seems that they are. But I don’t think that They Think that they are, because for some unknown bizarro-world reason they believe what the orange guy tells them and honestly believe that the pandemic is a hoax perpetuated by Democrats to harm trump’s chances of re-election - that the cases & death statistics are fake hyperinflated BS lies crafted to get people to vote against their cult leader. They legit honest to God believe this crap through and through, so their opposition to voting for someone that will work to end this pandemic isn’t out of spite for public health.. it’s because they don’t even believe the entire thing is even real.

I do wonder what they think of the rest of the entire world during this pandemic.. like do they really think that every country in the world shutdown their economy, locked people down, put on face masks, made massive social sacrifices and so on all just to campaign for Joe Biden? :? :roll: :roll: Or is it possible some of these people don’t even Know that the entire world shutdown for this because their only source of news focuses Only on American partisan politics? :? In either event: SO WEIRD!


Oh Yeah; The Other Thing; The
Three Letter Other Word of
'God of Trump' Supporters,
Overall:

Fox
(God)
News

Without 'This Fox'
'God Trump' Would
Just Be Playing Golf
And Looking Ever More Orange in Florida.


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17 Jul 2020, 1:20 pm

Fnord wrote:
This is just my opinion, but I think that those people have simply found a kindred spirit in Mr. Trump that gives voice to their own hate-filled ideas regarding euthanasia for all people who are "different".
What frightens me is that there's potentially 50+ million people in the US who think like this. How is that possible??? I've spent my whole life living on the east coast and haven't met a lot of "real" americans.



Fnord
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17 Jul 2020, 1:37 pm

Steve1963 wrote:
Fnord wrote:
This is just my opinion, but I think that those people have simply found a kindred spirit in Mr. Trump that gives voice to their own hate-filled ideas regarding euthanasia for all people who are "different".
What frightens me is that there's potentially 50+ million people in the US who think like this.  How is that possible?  I've spent my whole life living on the east coast and haven't met a lot of "real" Americans.
Is your inquiry of how it is possible rhetorical or empirical?

Either way, it is possible because of (a) the freedoms enumerated in our Constitution, and (b) cultural diversity.

There is no guaranty that even members of the same family will have the same attitudes and opinions, and therefor much less of a guaranty that all 329,968,629 U.S. citizens will agree on anything.

Only in a Utopian society could we expect enough mind-control to assure a more consistent mind-set in all citizens.


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17 Jul 2020, 1:48 pm

the people in favor of any kind of killing-off, are IMHO no different from the menace that we put down in WW2.