My son is Black and living with Autism. How do I protect him

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goldfish21
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15 Jul 2020, 2:12 pm

from police brutality?

https://www.mic.com/p/my-son-is-black-l ... y-29298647

I don’t pretend to have the answer, just sharing to point out that this is a legit problem in that being black And autistic compounds difficulties w/ “the talk.” (which is super f’d up that “the talk,” even has to exist in the first place.)


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TheRobotLives
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15 Jul 2020, 3:37 pm

An elder needs to teach him personal responsibility.

1. DON'T SCREW OFF/UP
2. TAKE PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY
3. OBEY THE LAW
4. RESPECT YOUR ELDERS
5. RESPECT POLICE

I wish i had smart elders that taught me things

Scene from tv show SCARED STRAIGHT .. where adults tell kids not to screw up
Image


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goldfish21
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15 Jul 2020, 4:38 pm

TheRobotLives wrote:
An elder needs to teach him personal responsibility.

1. DON'T SCREW OFF/UP
2. TAKE PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY
3. OBEY THE LAW
4. RESPECT YOUR ELDERS
5. RESPECT POLICE

I wish i had smart elders that taught me things

Scene from tv show SCARED STRAIGHT .. where adults tell kids not to screw up


Are you black? Legit question.

The issue is that even when black people do all of these 5 things and more, they’re still potential targets of racist, or at least racially biased, LEO’s that use their position of power to target non whites with unequal enforcement of laws, excessive force or police brutality based almost exclusively on skin colour and Not the behaviour of the citizen. That is what “the talk,” is all about. And it becomes even more complicated when the person is on the autism spectrum and may not behave in normal ways.


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blazingstar
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15 Jul 2020, 4:55 pm

Some autists can't speak. Some don't know how to follow instructions. Some wander in their neighborhoods.

I had a client, a young black man with autism who was mute and who did not look at all disabled. He was walking around his neighborhood when the police stopped him and knocked him to the ground and cuffed him, because he did not respond to them. His grandmother, his caregiver, who is also black, ran outside to to tell the police not to hurt him and to explain he was autistic. The police knocked her to the ground and cuffed her. His grandmother was a tiny woman, short and very thin. Not at all threatening.

It got straightened out in the end, but what a nightmare to go through if you have autism and do not understand what is going on.

Some people with autism do not have the capability to follow directions, respond to officers, or remember or understand cautions regarding interacting with the police.


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TheRobotLives
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15 Jul 2020, 5:10 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
TheRobotLives wrote:
An elder needs to teach him personal responsibility.

1. DON'T SCREW OFF/UP
2. TAKE PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY
3. OBEY THE LAW
4. RESPECT YOUR ELDERS
5. RESPECT POLICE

I wish i had smart elders that taught me things

Scene from tv show SCARED STRAIGHT .. where adults tell kids not to screw up


Are you black? Legit question.

The issue is that even when black people do all of these 5 things and more, they’re still potential targets of racist, or at least racially biased, LEO’s that use their position of power to target non whites with unequal enforcement of laws, excessive force or police brutality based almost exclusively on skin colour and Not the behaviour of the citizen. That is what “the talk,” is all about. And it becomes even more complicated when the person is on the autism spectrum and may not behave in normal ways.

As I showed in the picture, this is what goes on in real life.

Young black children are given "the talk" about not screwing up.

George Floyd is a good example. He tried to use fake money which lead to an interaction with police.


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Last edited by TheRobotLives on 15 Jul 2020, 5:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Romofan
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15 Jul 2020, 5:11 pm

I think that the list of behaviors is an excellent place to start, but being compliant will not protect you from the wrath of a truly bad cop. Or a stressed-out, terrified one.

The sad truth is that rancid cops are pretty far down the list of problems black kids face. They are far more likely to be hurt badly by drugs, their friends, or their own families.


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naturalplastic
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15 Jul 2020, 5:38 pm

blazingstar wrote:
Some autists can't speak. Some don't know how to follow instructions. Some wander in their neighborhoods.

I had a client, a young black man with autism who was mute and who did not look at all disabled. He was walking around his neighborhood when the police stopped him and knocked him to the ground and cuffed him, because he did not respond to them. His grandmother, his caregiver, who is also black, ran outside to to tell the police not to hurt him and to explain he was autistic. The police knocked her to the ground and cuffed her. His grandmother was a tiny woman, short and very thin. Not at all threatening.

It got straightened out in the end, but what a nightmare to go through if you have autism and do not understand what is going on.

Some people with autism do not have the capability to follow directions, respond to officers, or remember or understand cautions regarding interacting with the police.


This.

Forget race for a moment.

Back when I was a teen in 1969 Dad told us all a story he had just heard on the news. Two cops, and one civilian. All three were White. The civilian guy reached into his coat pocket. This spooked the two cops. The first cop fired a pistol at the guy...and missed! And mistakenly hit the other cop. Then both the wounded cop and the first cop proceeded to gun down the civilian guy .

Then the searched the now dead civilian's clothes and found what he was reaching for. It was special card he carried everywhere that stated that he had a speech impediment and was impaired in communication. He figured that this was a situation that he might need to show that card.

I guess that that story made an emotional impact on me because I still remember it fifty years later.

So if your kid is Black and has some kind of impairment like that...I guess you will have to stick a flashing neon sign on his forehead that says "I am an autistic and cant follow directions".

Memorizing a list of behaviors isnt going to do much. I myself was pulled over by a pair of lady cops, one Black and one White. Asked to see my license and registration. My registration was in a box in my back seat so I turned around to get it. And I guess they expected me to reach forward to the glove compartment. I dunno. But for some reason my move spooked them, made them think that I was reaching for a gun, and they both reached for their side arms. And I am a middle aged White dude with gray hair who acts fairly normally. Add young, add Black, and add autistic, and I might have been a goner. And these were not your stereotyped Rod Stieger (the chain gang warden in Cool Hand Luke) type redneck cops. Just normal cops with their normal hair trigger reflexes.



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15 Jul 2020, 10:04 pm

blazingstar wrote:
Some autists can't speak. Some don't know how to follow instructions. Some wander in their neighborhoods.

I had a client, a young black man with autism who was mute and who did not look at all disabled. He was walking around his neighborhood when the police stopped him and knocked him to the ground and cuffed him, because he did not respond to them. His grandmother, his caregiver, who is also black, ran outside to to tell the police not to hurt him and to explain he was autistic. The police knocked her to the ground and cuffed her. His grandmother was a tiny woman, short and very thin. Not at all threatening.

It got straightened out in the end, but what a nightmare to go through if you have autism and do not understand what is going on.

Some people with autism do not have the capability to follow directions, respond to officers, or remember or understand cautions regarding interacting with the police.


I spoke to a teaching aide a few years ago who had a 22yr old son who was mute but was able to catch public transport, He had a mobile phone but he also had a tag around his neck that clearly says he is autistic. If he is stopped by people (for whatever reason) he was required to show the tag.

A police-officer who tackles and cuffs a child with this type of dog-tag would end up in jail.



cyberdad
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15 Jul 2020, 10:05 pm

blazingstar wrote:
Some autists can't speak. Some don't know how to follow instructions. Some wander in their neighborhoods.


The boy in the story is high functioning and speaks normally.



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16 Jul 2020, 5:06 am

TheRobotLives wrote:
George Floyd is a good example. He tried to use fake money which lead to an interaction with police.

He was accused of using counterfeit money. Even if the 20$ bill he used was really fake, he didn't have to be aware of it, money changes hands countless times without being carefully examined. And even if he did intentionally use a fake 20$ bill, it's not a crime deserving instant death penalty.
George Floyd is actually a very bad example of your point.

Blazingstar's and Naturalplastic's stories highlight the real issue of innocent, law-abiding citizens being brutalized by the police for behaviors related to their health conditions. Patrisse Cullors, one of the BLM founders, recalls the way police treated her mentally ill brother as one of the experiences that lead her to where she is today.

Of course, being nice, law-abiding and staying away of trouble helps - but autism, mental illness or even some physical conditions can make the most lawful person behave "suspiciously" enough to get brutalized before the situation gets sorted out.


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blazingstar
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16 Jul 2020, 7:54 am

cyberdad wrote:
blazingstar wrote:
Some autists can't speak. Some don't know how to follow instructions. Some wander in their neighborhoods.

I had a client, a young black man with autism who was mute and who did not look at all disabled. He was walking around his neighborhood when the police stopped him and knocked him to the ground and cuffed him, because he did not respond to them. His grandmother, his caregiver, who is also black, ran outside to to tell the police not to hurt him and to explain he was autistic. The police knocked her to the ground and cuffed her. His grandmother was a tiny woman, short and very thin. Not at all threatening.

It got straightened out in the end, but what a nightmare to go through if you have autism and do not understand what is going on.

Some people with autism do not have the capability to follow directions, respond to officers, or remember or understand cautions regarding interacting with the police.


I spoke to a teaching aide a few years ago who had a 22yr old son who was mute but was able to catch public transport, He had a mobile phone but he also had a tag around his neck that clearly says he is autistic. If he is stopped by people (for whatever reason) he was required to show the tag.

A police-officer who tackles and cuffs a child with this type of dog-tag would end up in jail.


The officers did not wait to see if my client had a tag. The behavior that he ignored what they were saying was enough for them to view him as a danger and tackled him. I do not know exactly what happened - I wasn't there, my client can't tell me and I don't believe the police. BUT, this client did have behavior problems. If you tried to get him to do something he did not want to, he would be aggressive. I'm sure he fought when the officers tried to take him down.

A tag only helps if you can show it. And as natural plastic said, even then, you have to access the tag or note and any action to do that, might cause police to shoot you.

After that incident, I did a continuing education class with a volunteer fire department to let them know about people with disabilities and the things they might encounter in their efforts to save people. I was told it was very illuminating for them. But for the most part, this kind of education is not done.


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AardvarkGoodSwimmer
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16 Jul 2020, 2:20 pm

Image


Get a brown or orange or blue wallet. Black is beautiful of course. :D Just not in wallets.

Image
Maybe keep this card behind your driver’s license. Only present when the situation has settled and the officer has asked for ID.



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16 Jul 2020, 3:42 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
. . . I myself was pulled over by a pair of lady cops, one Black and one White. Asked to see my license and registration. My registration was in a box in my back seat so I turned around to get it. . .
Man, that is industrially-strength stupid. I’m sorry, but it really is.

During a routine traffic stop, you unexpected reach toward the back seat area? I’d say it’s lucky you only faced hands on guns and not fully drawn guns.

Just say, Officer, my papers are in a box in the back seat.

And if her reaction is a nod or a “mmm uh,” maybe even directly ask, is it okay if I reach for the box in the back seat?



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16 Jul 2020, 4:03 pm

AardvarkGoodSwimmer wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
. . . I myself was pulled over by a pair of lady cops, one Black and one White. Asked to see my license and registration. My registration was in a box in my back seat so I turned around to get it. . .
Man, that is industrially-strength stupid. I’m sorry, but it really is.

During a routine traffic stop, you unexpected reach toward the back seat area? I’d say it’s lucky you only faced hands on guns and not fully drawn guns.

Just say, Officer, my papers are in a box in the back seat.

And if her reaction is a nod or a “mmm uh,” maybe even directly ask, is it okay if I reach for the box in the back seat?

A friend of mine had a gun pointed at him because, being from Europe, he had no idea in the US you don't get out of a car without being told to. He's obviously European, long-haired geek, calm and composed.

There appears to be quite a variety of possible risky moves that have nothing to do with breaking any law.


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cyberdad
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16 Jul 2020, 7:18 pm

AardvarkGoodSwimmer wrote:
Image
Maybe keep this card behind your driver’s license. Only present when the situation has settled and the officer has asked for ID.


Actually this is the tag I mentioned was worn around the neck of the 22 yr old when he caught public transport. It must be a universal design. The police can't miss it.



cyberdad
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16 Jul 2020, 7:27 pm

blazingstar wrote:
. BUT, this client did have behavior problems. If you tried to get him to do something he did not want to, he would be aggressive. I'm sure he fought when the officers tried to take him down. .


Ok that's different. The 22 yr old I was talking about was passive (he was also white which I suspect is a mitigating factor). There have been plenty of news stories of autistic males having public meltdowns showing defiant/aggressive behaviour toward police or security being tackled to the ground or worse.

I have also read about men with autism in war zones around the world getting tortured and executed because security forces tend to treat their public behaviour as a sign of dangerous behaviour.

The police treatment of your client's grandmother is unacceptable as well. Did they sue the police?