NTs can say whatever they like and we can't

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KT67
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12 Aug 2020, 5:48 pm

I often get this with jokers.

For eg...
My mum and stepdad went to their neighbours & they said 'where have you been today' cos we'd been out. So they told them the name of the beach. The female neighbour said 'oh I was conceived on that beach'. Then they were talking about hen parties in our town & she said 'the bigger the girl, the shorter the skirt'. And fashion trends & she said 'my dad said if mini skirts got any shorter I'd have more hair to comb and two more cheeks to powder'...

If I'd said even one of those, people would look at me strangely and not want to be my friend.

But they just saw it as funny from her and saw her as a right laugh.

I don't get it. And I don't like it. It's double standards.


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Joe90
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12 Aug 2020, 6:16 pm

I know how you mean. It's like my uncle was showing a photo of himself naked in bed with his new girlfriend (the private areas were not exposed in the picture), and my family looked and laughed, cringing but in a jokey way. But when I wanted to show my family a photo of my boyfriend and me in bed naked (and no private parts exposed) my mum firmly told me not to show it, and I knew she was being serious. I don't understand what the difference is between me and my uncle. In fact I think I'd rather see my daughter in a sexy photo with her boyfriend than my brother in a sexy photo with his girlfriend.

But it's not just NTs that make us feel guilty for doing or saying normal things. Other Aspies do too. Even on here I got a post implying that we should never, ever judge NTs, but we have to put up with NTs judging us and it's OK.

Yep, being an Aspie (person on the spectrum) totally sucks balls. If a friendly neighbour suddenly ignores you one day, you are not supposed to get offended and instead respect the fact that they might be having a bad day or something. But if you were having a bad day and ignored your friendly neighbour then you are still in the wrong because you are supposed to respect the fact that they don't know that you are having a bad day and they'll just see you as being rude and will get offended.
It's like Aspies are expected to predict what goes on inside other people's heads, but NTs can get away with only predicting how one is feeling on the outside without considering what could be going on inside.

I see this contradiction everywhere, even in sources that are really reliable, and it makes it much more confusing than it already is. Why can't NTs just admit that they aren't experts at empathy either? Well, they do admit this, but when they're on the subject of autism, it's all "NTs have a brilliant skill of empathy, while autistics suck at it".

Sorry, might have gone off topic there but not really.


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Feyokien
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12 Aug 2020, 6:35 pm

Joe90 wrote:
I know how you mean. It's like my uncle was showing a photo of himself naked in bed with his new girlfriend (the private areas were not exposed in the picture), and my family looked and laughed, cringing but in a jokey way. But when I wanted to show my family a photo of my boyfriend and me in bed naked (and no private parts exposed) my mum firmly told me not to show it, and I knew she was being serious. I don't understand what the difference is between me and my uncle. In fact I think I'd rather see my daughter in a sexy photo with her boyfriend than my brother in a sexy photo with his girlfriend.


I can think of other reasons than because you're on the spectrum why your mum wouldn't want to see a photo of you in bed with your boyfriend. (child parent dynamic, sexism).



I haven't dealt with this double standard, but I don't exactly socialize with many people.



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12 Aug 2020, 6:50 pm

Are you claiming that ALL neurotypicals can say whatever they want, or just the ones you personally know?

Are you claiming that ALL of us are prohibited from saying what we want, or just you?


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KT67
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12 Aug 2020, 6:59 pm

Well obviously I don't know everyone in the world, but it's a general pattern I've noticed where HFA and LFA people get judged for saying anything remotely edgy whereas there's some NT people who get to be edgy.

Not everyone either. Certain specific people get away with it but there doesn't seem to be much of a demographic definition (age, gender, sex, class etc) apart from NT and extroverted.

I don't tend to like edgy humour as people hide behind it to say bigoted things but the amount of 'don't swear', 'don't raise your voice', 'don't say anything crude' rules there are seems a bit ridiculous tbh.

And if I was to push past someone then that would be rude too but other people get to push past me even during the covid crisis and mum thinks I'm wrong to feel cross.

My mum's friend's husband even made borderline paedo, inbred comments when I was 18 about my little cousins & I'm apparently the bad guy for remembering it years later and being wary of him. My stepdad said 'on holiday, my nieces were always wrestling' and he said 'bet you liked that' when they were 15 and 12. My stepdad didn't say it for pervy reasons, he said it to show the kind of rough and tumble kids they were.


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Fnord
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12 Aug 2020, 7:02 pm

So then, only a few hypocritical people are actually picking on you for the things they do themselves.


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KT67
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12 Aug 2020, 8:06 pm

Well yes but I'm in my 30s, have lived in various towns & done various courses/jobs and everywhere seems to be like it. And it's the same online.

Extroverted NTs get to say things which aspies would get chastised for.

I want to know why.

Also extroverted NTs say far more offensive things than I'd say so for eg I used to work with women who were openly racist but I said 'crap' once and they cut me out of their friendship group and said I said the 'c' word. The 'c' word isn't 'crap'.

I wouldn't mind if it was either 'anything goes' or 'we have rules for a reason'. But it seems to be arbitary and based on who says stuff.


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idntonkw
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13 Aug 2020, 1:54 am

the NTs get to say things and experiment from small age... starting in middle school, I noticed how popular kids could get away with saying anything, and if I said something similar, it wouldn't work and would come back to haunt me.



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13 Aug 2020, 3:57 am

Fnord wrote:
Are you claiming that ALL neurotypicals can say whatever they want, or just the ones you personally know?

Are you claiming that ALL of us are prohibited from saying what we want, or just you?


Nobody said the word "all".
It just SEEMS that way when you're living with Asperger's or autism, like NTs around you have a free pass to do and say what they like but if you say what they'd say it's suddenly really socially unacceptable. So much for mimicking NT behaviour.


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KT67
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13 Aug 2020, 4:23 am

Joe90 wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Are you claiming that ALL neurotypicals can say whatever they want, or just the ones you personally know?

Are you claiming that ALL of us are prohibited from saying what we want, or just you?


Nobody said the word "all".
It just SEEMS that way when you're living with Asperger's or autism, like NTs around you have a free pass to do and say what they like but if you say what they'd say it's suddenly really socially unacceptable. So much for mimicking NT behaviour.


Yeah and it's closer to 'all' the extroverted 'funny' types in my life than it is 'just a few'.

It's like saying 'not all cats meow'. True, I have a mute cat. But on average...

Of course an NT can be quiet & introverted & wouldn't get away with it then. But they'd be able to know it wouldn't be socially acceptable for them whereas I get comfortable & then get in trouble.


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KT67
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13 Aug 2020, 7:45 am

When I was at school this boy kept rhyming my surname with things as an insult so I did it back after the teacher ignored me when I reported it. His dad reported me and I got in bother.


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13 Aug 2020, 9:18 am

Indeed

It is not a two way street

It is not an even playing field

Neurotypicals outnumber autistics so neurotypicals overpower autistics

"Why" this and "what" that

"Disrespectful" and "rude". Slippery slope. You can't measure respect. Anything they don't like is "disrespectful"

Some neurotypicals act so innocent enthusiastic entitled judgmental arrogant manipulative

But whatever

Majority rules



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13 Aug 2020, 9:37 am

Probably in some cases, but I think that it's usually about the NTs being better at telling when it's a socially acceptable time, place and company to tell things in than we are. Also, I know that sometimes NTs fake that something that another NT says or does is okay even though it's not because the other is high on some social hierarchy, so embarrassing them would bring them trouble, but since those on the spectrum are often low in social hierarchy, angering or upsetting us isn't nearly as risky.



Joe90
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13 Aug 2020, 11:45 am

It's got nothing to do with the timing, it depends on how popular you are. When you're popular, you can get away with almost anything.

I remember when I was about 14 this popular boy in my class decided to hide from the teacher before she came into the classroom, and he climbed on top of a filing cabinet and he asked kids to cover him with their coats. The whole class thought it was hilarious.
But I imagined that if I decided to hide from the teacher like that, everyone would just call me sad and childish. In my opinion it is more like the behaviour of a 5-year-old, but when this boy done it, it suddenly became entertaining. And that was because he was popular.


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13 Aug 2020, 12:06 pm

Because many people can read social cues and we have trouble with it so it looks like a double standard to us.There is banter jokes and mean jokes and I discovered from my mother that when you do jokes, it has to be how you express it.

Reason why people take me so seriously and miss my humor is because I am a serious person and when I express humor, it's hard to pick up on it. The way I express it online makes it difficult for people to tell too.

Nuance also has to do with it too. Something might be funny in one situation but when another person does it, it is mean spirited of them. That is because when someone pulled that prank on their friend, it was because they know each other well and the friend knows them well enough to pull such a stunt. Some people can take a joke and some others cannot.

As a child I spent so much time arguing and fighting with staff in school for equal rights I didn't know I was missing social cues and nuance. I remember my mom tried explaining it to me once when I was 10 I realized I couldn't see the invisible line other kids could see and that was when I knew something was seriously wrong with my brain.

Yes people tease, I would tease and it was never okay. That was because I did it wrong.

As a popular quote says:


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emotrtkey
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13 Aug 2020, 5:42 pm

Your speech and body language affect how people interpret what you say. If you aren't able to naturally adjust your voice while joking, people will think you're being serious instead of joking and some jokes will seem off and make people uncomfortable. People may think you're being judgmental instead of being funny. Some NTs who suffer from chronic stress or emotional issues have the same problem.