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vvvvv
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21 Aug 2020, 8:26 pm

There's been a couple of discussions on this before but nothing recent. Logistics aside, i.e. that of official diagnostic term and the benefits of receiving an ASD diagnosis, where do people with Aspergers stand on how Aspergers was eliminated from the DSM?

I personally as someone with Aspergers am outraged because I wholeheartedly believe that Aspergers and ASD are two entirely separate disorders. I find that even when talking to individuals with HFA I do not have much in common with them and they cannot relate to me. Just as I know I do not process social information in the way an NT does, I know I do not process it in the same way as someone with HFA does.

Where do others with Aspergers stand on this issue?



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21 Aug 2020, 8:54 pm

I am in agreement with The DSM's merging of the diagnoses. The key point I see is that it's a spectrum. Those called HFA likely just internalize the affects more, but that does not mean they struggle less. I can often relate just as easily to someone who is "lower functioning" than myself, as I can to someone with my own functionally, and as I can to someone who is "higher functioning." We're all individuals with many differences, but we all share similar underlying difficulties that come with ASD.



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21 Aug 2020, 8:58 pm

Asperger’s and HFA, to me, represent two different “colors” of the Autistic Spectrum.



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21 Aug 2020, 9:18 pm

No they aren't the same. I asked my Neuropsychologist during my assessment report meeting, and she said there are differences. I'm Level 2 ASD so I didn't ask for the details of how Aspergers differs from HFA, but it does.

My daughter is considered HFA but I don't see any of the stereotypical characteristics of Aspergers in her personality.


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21 Aug 2020, 9:23 pm

It would have been impossible for me to be diagnosed with Asperger’s under the DSM-IV or ICD 8 through 10.



vvvvv
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21 Aug 2020, 9:33 pm

AuroraBorealisGazer wrote:
I am in agreement with The DSM's merging of the diagnoses. The key point I see is that it's a spectrum. Those called HFA likely just internalize the affects more, but that does not mean they struggle less. I can often relate just as easily to someone who is "lower functioning" than myself, as I can to someone with my own functionally, and as I can to someone who is "higher functioning." We're all individuals with many differences, but we all share similar underlying difficulties that come with ASD.


May I ask if you have an Aspergers or ASD diagnosis? Partly just because I'm curious but also because I tend to get these same kind of responses.
People with Aspergers or experience with it are also within the Autism community and have seen therefore recognize both as distinctly different things.
Or, someone who has HFA, does not see differences and therefore agrees with the merge.

What I am saying is that I definitely have Aspergers but I do not and can't relate to most individuals with HFA let alone people with more severe cases. I don't struggle with the same underlying difficulties. Don't get me wrong, they're definitely similar sometimes but that doesn't make them the same.



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21 Aug 2020, 9:38 pm

vvvvv wrote:
What I am saying is that I definitely have Aspergers but I do not and can't relate to most individuals with HFA let alone people with more severe cases. I don't struggle with the same underlying difficulties. Don't get me wrong, they're definitely similar sometimes but that doesn't make them the same.


Would you please elaborate on the underlying differences that you see between Aspergers and HFA? I've been curious about this myself. I have no diagnosis and am here to learn more.


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AuroraBorealisGazer
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21 Aug 2020, 10:10 pm

vvvvv wrote:
AuroraBorealisGazer wrote:
I am in agreement with The DSM's merging of the diagnoses. The key point I see is that it's a spectrum. Those called HFA likely just internalize the affects more, but that does not mean they struggle less. I can often relate just as easily to someone who is "lower functioning" than myself, as I can to someone with my own functionally, and as I can to someone who is "higher functioning." We're all individuals with many differences, but we all share similar underlying difficulties that come with ASD.


May I ask if you have an Aspergers or ASD diagnosis? Partly just because I'm curious but also because I tend to get these same kind of responses.
People with Aspergers or experience with it are also within the Autism community and have seen therefore recognize both as distinctly different things.
Or, someone who has HFA, does not see differences and therefore agrees with the merge.

What I am saying is that I definitely have Aspergers but I do not and can't relate to most individuals with HFA let alone people with more severe cases. I don't struggle with the same underlying difficulties. Don't get me wrong, they're definitely similar sometimes but that doesn't make them the same.


I was diagnosed as a minor and not given a lot of information about it (maybe because I didn't want to know at that time). I seem to recall both terms being thrown around, but at that time they were still different in the DSM so of course it would be one or the other.

It was my understanding that Aspergers was fairly equivalent to HFA, but you seem to being saying they are different. If I have understood you correctly, what are the differences you see between the two?



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21 Aug 2020, 10:35 pm

These labels are largely meaningless as it's possible to move from LFA to HFA and HFA to Aspie over the course of one's life. Plenty of examples in the literature and on threads created by members on WP.

Conversely there are people who are Aspie but who become less functional over time.

I've posted on how my daughter went from Low functioning as a child to a now relatively high functioning 15 yr old. My grandparents and siblings call her an Aspie but I avoid such labels as her social skills still need lots of development.



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21 Aug 2020, 11:12 pm

^ Good point, I've heard of some people who have moved along the scale.



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21 Aug 2020, 11:27 pm

Asperger's is an autistic spectrum disorder and high functioning autism.

They used to be separate and then not too long later AS was a form of autism and back when I was diagnosed, it wasn't autism but it was a form of it.

It's like how we have different labels for those who are on the schizophrenic spectrum but not all of them are a schizophrenic. They either have schizo effective or schizoid personality disorder or schizo typical personality disorder or paranoid personality disorder and so on.


But we don't do that with autism anymore and it's now all autism and now we have social communication disorder which they say isn't autism. It's not even on the spectrum either.


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21 Aug 2020, 11:48 pm

I think this is one of the challenges for the so called neurodiversity movement in the autism community is the supposed alliance between people who are able to function quite well Vs those who struggle to be accepted by NTs.

I have only come across a couple of members on this forum who actively spend time with people "lower functioning" than themselves but they are both paid for their services which (in my view) doesn't count.

Of course there is nothing wrong with slotting yourself into this "sliding scale", its not much different to measuring your weight or height except the latter is objectively measurable.



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21 Aug 2020, 11:51 pm

vvvvv wrote:
There's been a couple of discussions on this before but nothing recent. Logistics aside, i.e. that of official diagnostic term and the benefits of receiving an ASD diagnosis, where do people with Aspergers stand on how Aspergers was eliminated from the DSM?

I personally as someone with Aspergers am outraged because I wholeheartedly believe that Aspergers and ASD are two entirely separate disorders. I find that even when talking to individuals with HFA I do not have much in common with them and they cannot relate to me. Just as I know I do not process social information in the way an NT does, I know I do not process it in the same way as someone with HFA does.

Where do others with Aspergers stand on this issue?

I personally dont' believe asperger's and autism are seperate. That being said techincally speaking HFA and ASpergers are different because you can be HFA and have a speech delay while with asperger's you can't. The main difference between LFA and HFA iirc. Is that people with HFA have met some major milestones (i.e. talking potty training etc.) On time or atleast not incredibly late. that being said the difference is basically semantical. I'm not sure if HFA was a diagnosis. Personally, I think the DSM-V is vastly superior but then again i'm not an aspie am I? I'm sure you don't mean it that way but it really comes off like, You vastly superior aspies don't want to be associated with us lesser autistic people who can't function as well. I'm sure you don't mean it that way do you? Okay I googled ti and it seems HFA was never an official diagnosis.
Wikipedia wrote:
High-functioning autism (HFA) is autism without an intellectual disability (an IQ of 70 or less).

I don't think there is anything in AS diagnosis that says anything about IQ. Hmm it seems there is something about it
DSM-IV wrote:
These disturbances are not better explained by intellectual disability (intellectual developmental disorder) or global developmental delay. Intellectual disability and autism spectrum disorder frequently co-occur; to make comorbid diagnoses of autism spectrum disorder and intellectual disability, social communication should be below that expected for general developmental level.

Idk that doesn't necessarily exclude it either. :shrug: Anyway
I'd also like to point out that Asperger's was originally named Autism but since kanner's i think that's their name discovered Autistic Disorder (aka kanner's autism) they called it Asperger's syndrome.


TL;DR
Asperger's Syndrome and High functioning autism are technically different but effectively the same.


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22 Aug 2020, 12:00 am

cyberdad wrote:
These labels are largely meaningless as it's possible to move from LFA to HFA and HFA to Aspie over the course of one's life. Plenty of examples in the literature and on threads created by members on WP.

Conversely there are people who are Aspie but who become less functional over time.

I've posted on how my daughter went from Low functioning as a child to a now relatively high functioning 15 yr old. My grandparents and siblings call her an Aspie but I avoid such labels as her social skills still need lots of development.

I unfortanately seem to be on the latter scale, It seems my abilities have gotten worse as i got older, but rather or not that is to due with burnout :shrug: It's unfortunate. I'm glad that your daughter has progressed. It seems that people like this don't get much attention. I believe temple gradin said something similiar to moving up the spectrum but I don't know much about her. EzraS has a similar story. He seems to have a developmental growth spurt of sorts. But this brings up a very good point. Not everyone will have the same level of function their entire life.


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22 Aug 2020, 12:01 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:
No they aren't the same. I asked my Neuropsychologist during my assessment report meeting, and she said there are differences. I'm Level 2 ASD so I didn't ask for the details of how Aspergers differs from HFA, but it does.

My daughter is considered HFA but I don't see any of the stereotypical characteristics of Aspergers in her personality.

What do you eman by stereotypical characters of Asperger's in her personality?


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22 Aug 2020, 12:05 am

League_Girl wrote:
Asperger's is an autistic spectrum disorder and high functioning autism.

They used to be separate and then not too long later AS was a form of autism and back when I was diagnosed, it wasn't autism but it was a form of it.

It's like how we have different labels for those who are on the schizophrenic spectrum but not all of them are a schizophrenic. They either have schizo effective or schizoid personality disorder or schizo typical personality disorder or paranoid personality disorder and so on.


But we don't do that with autism anymore and it's now all autism and now we have social communication disorder which they say isn't autism. It's not even on the spectrum either.

This is a great way to look at it but I thought schizophrenia was on had a similar thing Schizophrenia Spectrum disorder? this is an apt comparison however. Asperger's isn't different from autism is just autism presenting itself in a different way. That's how I think of it atleast.
kraftiekortie wrote:
Asperger’s and HFA, to me, represent two different “colors” of the Autistic Spectrum.

What exactly do you mean by this?


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