Police shooting in Wisconsin,protests erupt

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Brictoria
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09 Sep 2020, 11:29 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
As is obvious, neither the witness statement (which the prosecution relied on), nor the defence's statement show any indication of Kyle approaching Mr Rosenbaum, nor an inclination to do so - in fact that both show Kyle wanting nothing to do with him, and trying to keep his distance from him.


You are missing the point of my question that I am posing. If Rittenhouse was "chums" with the milita whom Rosenbaum was taunting minutes earlier why would they leave Rittenhouse to fend for himself against somebody who already made himself known to them as an adversary?


At present, the closest we get to that is in the first of 2 paragraphs which I had excerpted from the defence's statement:
Quote:
After the crowd passed the premises and Kyle believed the threat of further destruction had passed, he became increasingly concerned with the injured protestors and bystanders congregating at a nearby gas station with no immediate access to medical assistance or help from law enforcement. Kyle headed in that direction with a first aid kit. He sought out injured persons, rendered aid, and tried to guide people to others who could assist to the extent he could do so amid the chaos. By the final time Kyle returned to the gas station and confirmed there were no more injured individuals who needed assistance, police had advanced their formation and blocked what would have been his path back to the mechanic’s shop. Kyle then complied with the police instructions not to go back there. Kyle returned to the gas station until he learned of a need to help protect the second mechanic’s shop further down the street where property destruction was imminent with no police were nearby.

Source: https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/kyle-rittenhouses-lawyers-release-statement/

It appears that he was prevented by the police from returning to his previous location where they were located.

Why they were not with him may have been because they saw no threat to him (and so no need to protect him), whilst treating the wounded where he was given the crowd had already moved on from that location, not realizing that police would prevent him rejoining them when he finished what he was doing, but this is conjecture.


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Brictoria
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23 Sep 2020, 1:41 am

Ignoring the fact that this is presented by the defence team, it includes a lot of the video from the incidents around Kyle in better quality that previously shown (from memory), new footage around the incidents, as well as some unrelated footage for "effect"\"background".

It also includes a possible reason why Kyle was initially chased (whether true or not, it is impossible to know).


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23 Sep 2020, 1:47 am

Brictoria wrote:
Ignoring the fact that this is presented by the defence team...


... Let's not ignore this...


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Brictoria
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23 Sep 2020, 2:57 am

cberg wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
Ignoring the fact that this is presented by the defence team...


... Let's not ignore this...


You will notice that I explicitly indicated the producer.

The reason for posting was the additional\clearer footage it included, as you are obviously aware having trimmed that from your reply to make your partisan remark.

I'd rather ensure people have as much information as possible, rather than encourage "low-information"\partisan habits where people only care about\research one side of an issue.


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Brictoria
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26 Sep 2020, 11:40 pm

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Police Officer Rusten Sheskey has told investigators that it wasn't just his life he was defending when he fired his weapon seven times at Jacob Blake last month in Kenosha, Wisconsin. He said he used deadly force during the chaotic encounter because he was afraid Blake, while attempting to flee the scene, was trying to kidnap a child in the backseat of the vehicle.

"He's got my kid. He's got my keys," Sheskey heard a woman say, according to attorney Brendan Matthews, who is representing the officer. If Sheskey had allowed Blake to drive away and something happened to the child "the question would have been 'why didn't you do something?'" Matthews said.

That explanation, provided in an exclusive interview with CNN, offers the most detailed rationale to date for Sheskey's highly scrutinized decision to shoot Blake, who is Black, as he leaned into an SUV with his children inside it on August 23. Cellphone video of the shooting went viral on the internet, sparking days of protests and rioting in the lakeside city of Kenosha. The shooting, which Blake's family has said resulted in paralysis from his waist down, was widely condemned as yet another unjustified shooting of a Black person by police.

The attorney's comments to CNN come as authorities in Wisconsin announced this week that the results of an investigation by the state Department of Justice would soon be turned over to a retired police chief serving as an independent consultant for his review. The consultant is in turn expected to forward the case to local prosecutors along with an analysis intended to help determine whether criminal charges against Sheskey are warranted. The officer remains on paid administrative leave.

Matthews told CNN he typically does not talk about pending cases but said he felt compelled to provide some additional detail to counter what he described as an "incomplete, inaccurate" narrative that has emerged to date. Matthews directly disputed assertions by Blake's family and lawyers that he was unarmed and posed no threat to the officers.

Source: https://www.gwinnettdailypost.com/news/world_nation/lawyer-says-cop-shot-jacob-blake-after-hearing-a-mothers-desperate-plea-hes-got-my/article_0737fe9f-f9c0-5465-b3ad-a8495f0b45e6.html?utm_source=ground.news&utm_medium=referral


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26 Sep 2020, 11:50 pm

Brictoria wrote:
cberg wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
Ignoring the fact that this is presented by the defence team...


... Let's not ignore this...


You will notice that I explicitly indicated the producer.

The reason for posting was the additional\clearer footage it included, as you are obviously aware having trimmed that from your reply to make your partisan remark.

I'd rather ensure people have as much information as possible, rather than encourage "low-information"\partisan habits where people only care about\research one side of an issue.


Ok thanks for the heads up, but you only ever seem to take the side of a notoriously brutal police state I'm not even sure you've ever been to & most of us live here.

Peace out.


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Brictoria
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27 Sep 2020, 12:11 am

cberg wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
cberg wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
Ignoring the fact that this is presented by the defence team...


... Let's not ignore this...


You will notice that I explicitly indicated the producer.

The reason for posting was the additional\clearer footage it included, as you are obviously aware having trimmed that from your reply to make your partisan remark.

I'd rather ensure people have as much information as possible, rather than encourage "low-information"\partisan habits where people only care about\research one side of an issue.


Ok thanks for the heads up, but you only ever seem to take the side of a notoriously brutal police state I'm not even sure you've ever been to & most of us live here.

Peace out.


I'm not taking any side...I'm trying to ensure that people have as many facts about these issues as possible in order to allow them to make an informed, rather than emotional, judgement of what occurred.

It's better that people see both sides of an issue and are able to make up their own minds on what they think occurred\why it occurred, rather than only see one side and then be surprised when a verdict\outcome does not match their expectations due to their not having being aware of (potentially) relevent facts.


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"When people express opinions that differ from yours, take it as a chance to grow. Seek to understand over being understood. Be curious, not defensive. The only way to disarm another human being is by listening." - Glennon Doyle Melton

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“There was a saying that a man's true character was revealed in defeat. I thought it was also revealed in victory.”
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27 Sep 2020, 10:18 am

cyberdad wrote:
TheRobotLives wrote:
The latest news is that Rittenhouse is trying to fight extradition.

Kyle Rittenhouse Attorneys Plan to Fight Extradition to Wisconsin
https://www.wsj.com/articles/kyle-ritte ... 1601050319

Which is weird and futile, however, there must be some reason.
Delay? Milk more donations? Keep it in the news?


Yes rather strange if he's so confident that he's innocent.

Lawyer Barnes indicated that Rittenhouse's attorneys appear to be doing a bad job.

Barnes says, the prosecution will likely find witnesses to say Rittenhouse provoked people.

Barnes says, the prosecution will use bullet trajectories to argue the Rosenbaum killing was not self-defense. (Likely, Rittenhouse fired downward in killing Rosenbaum)

Rittenhouse violated curfew, and was illegally underage to carry a rifle.

Then we saw in the below video analysis that Rittenhouse can lose his entire self-defense argument to later killings if the earlier provocation is proven.

I would think Rittenhouse would have to jump at a plea deal, vs risk LIFE in prison.


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cyberdad
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27 Sep 2020, 9:29 pm

Brictoria wrote:
It also includes a possible reason why Kyle was initially chased (whether true or not, it is impossible to know).


Judging by the fact kyle is hiding and resisting extradition I think he knows what's waiting for him when he faces witness statements that he provoked protestors.



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27 Sep 2020, 9:31 pm

TheRobotLives wrote:
I would think Rittenhouse would have to jump at a plea deal, vs risk LIFE in prison.


That is precisely what I said earlier that Lin Wood has no choice. The issue know is whether the authorities can drag Rittenhouse from his rat-hole and take him back kicking and screaming to Wisconsin.



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27 Sep 2020, 10:44 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
It also includes a possible reason why Kyle was initially chased (whether true or not, it is impossible to know).


Judging by the fact kyle is hiding and resisting extradition I think he knows what's waiting for him when he faces witness statements that he provoked protestors.


Have you done ANY research on what has been happening, or are you content with continual incorrect assumptions?

He is currently in jail in Illinois, as they do not permit bail in that state for people facing extradition for crimes which have a potential "life" sentence in the state which is seeking their extradition, so until he is extradited, his "hiding" consists of sitting in the jail he is currently located in...

On a related note: Any "witness statements" he will face are required to be suplied to his lawyers, so regardless of where he is located, he will still be "facing" them.

Similarly, you have this constant (pavlovian) responce that he "provoked" the protestors who he shot, yet whenever verifiable evidence (or in fact any, given that the actual evidence held\presented by the police does not include it, and I have seen nothing published to indicateit occuring) is requested, you slink away, unable to provide it...If you don't have evidence that supports your assumptions, the least you could do would be to prefix your assumptions with an indication that it is merely an assumption, and has nothing to support it: unless you are dishonestly seeking to "hide" facts that do not support your wishes by making false claims?

A person wishing to have an honest conversation has no need to hide the fact they are making an assumption: A person pushing lies\disinformation does, and tries to imply their assumption is a fact.


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“There was a saying that a man's true character was revealed in defeat. I thought it was also revealed in victory.”
― Alison Goodman, Eon: Dragoneye Reborn


Brictoria
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27 Sep 2020, 10:54 pm

cyberdad wrote:
TheRobotLives wrote:
I would think Rittenhouse would have to jump at a plea deal, vs risk LIFE in prison.


That is precisely what I said earlier that Lin Wood has no choice. The issue know is whether the authorities can drag Rittenhouse from his rat-hole and take him back kicking and screaming to Wisconsin.


He is currently in jail in Illinois, as they do not permit bail in that state for people facing extradition for crimes which have a potential "life" sentence in the state which is seeking their extradition, so until he is extradited, his "rat-hole" consists of sitting in the jail he is currently located in...

For the record, basic research isn't hard, and shows respect for the reader of your posts. Not doing simple research, couching assumptions and lies as though they are proven\supported by evidence, or ignoring available facts, however...


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"When people express opinions that differ from yours, take it as a chance to grow. Seek to understand over being understood. Be curious, not defensive. The only way to disarm another human being is by listening." - Glennon Doyle Melton

Quote:
“There was a saying that a man's true character was revealed in defeat. I thought it was also revealed in victory.”
― Alison Goodman, Eon: Dragoneye Reborn


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27 Sep 2020, 11:08 pm

Brictoria wrote:
Similarly, you have this constant (pavlovian) responce that he "provoked" the protestors who he shot, yet whenever verifiable evidence (or in fact any, given that the actual evidence held\presented by the police does not include it, and I have seen nothing published to indicateit occuring) is requested, you slink away, unable to provide it...

Barnes explicitly stated that the prosecution will find antifa witnesses who say Rittenhouse provoked them.

It may not be true.

It may be subjective.

However, Barnes describes this as a failing of the defense team to "lock down" all witnesses into a testimony.


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Brictoria
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27 Sep 2020, 11:34 pm

TheRobotLives wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
Similarly, you have this constant (pavlovian) responce that he "provoked" the protestors who he shot, yet whenever verifiable evidence (or in fact any, given that the actual evidence held\presented by the police does not include it, and I have seen nothing published to indicateit occuring) is requested, you slink away, unable to provide it...

Barnes explicitly stated that the prosecution will find antifa witnesses who say Rittenhouse provoked them.

It may not be true.

It may be subjective.

However, Barnes describes this as a failing of the defense team "lock down" all witnesses into a testimony.


From what I can tell, L. Lin Wood and John Pierce don't have background in these types of cases\this states's laws, and have been having problems getting local lawyers (related to their background, not the case), which has caused the delays, as well as other failings so far regarding the defence case.

The point I was making is that there are certain member(s) who have a reputation for making statements (such as that Kyle provoked Mr Rosenbaum), yet every time they are asked what evidence they have to support their claim which they had asserted as being a fact, they either run off to hide, ignore that request when replying, or (rarely) admit that is was an assumption, not a fact...And then repeat the process in another thread (or even the same one). This shows great disrespect for those reading their posts and seeking an honest discussion\explanation of events, as well as leading to problems (such as with the Brionna Taylor case) where people were lied to\had facts hidden from them, and were later surprised by the results.

Sadly, to those dishonest people, pushing their agenda is more important than ensuring only factual information is supplied, or making it clear when something is an assumption\not supported by facts\evidence.


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cyberdad
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28 Sep 2020, 12:24 am

Brictoria wrote:
Similarly, you have this constant (pavlovian) responce that he "provoked" the protestors who he shot, yet whenever verifiable evidence (or in fact any, given that the actual evidence held\presented by the police does not include it, and I have seen nothing published to indicateit occuring) is requested, you slink away, unable to provide it...If you don't have evidence that supports your assumptions, the least you could do would be to prefix your assumptions with an indication that it is merely an assumption, and has nothing to support it: unless you are dishonestly seeking to "hide" facts that do not support your wishes by making false claims?.


Are my words triggering you Bric? I posted witness statement by a witness named Jerimiah a couple of times now, you chose not to read it that's not my problem.

I'll rephrase that the "rathole" Rittenhouse is a Illinois jail but he and his legal team are avoiding extradition which tells me there is incentive for him to stay in Illinois. You might say its his legal imperative to avoid a life sentence and fight the charges from his current domicile but my perspective is he committed the crime in Wisconsin and he should therefore be tried in the state he committed his crime.



cyberdad
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28 Sep 2020, 12:29 am

Brictoria wrote:
TheRobotLives wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
Similarly, you have this constant (pavlovian) responce that he "provoked" the protestors who he shot, yet whenever verifiable evidence (or in fact any, given that the actual evidence held\presented by the police does not include it, and I have seen nothing published to indicateit occuring) is requested, you slink away, unable to provide it...

Barnes explicitly stated that the prosecution will find antifa witnesses who say Rittenhouse provoked them.

It may not be true.

It may be subjective.

However, Barnes describes this as a failing of the defense team "lock down" all witnesses into a testimony.


From what I can tell, L. Lin Wood and John Pierce don't have background in these types of cases\this states's laws, and have been having problems getting local lawyers (related to their background, not the case), which has caused the delays, as well as other failings so far regarding the defence case.

The point I was making is that there are certain member(s) who have a reputation for making statements (such as that Kyle provoked Mr Rosenbaum), yet every time they are asked what evidence they have to support their claim which they had asserted as being a fact, they either run off to hide, ignore that request when replying, or (rarely) admit that is was an assumption, not a fact...And then repeat the process in another thread (or even the same one). This shows great disrespect for those reading their posts and seeking an honest discussion\explanation of events, as well as leading to problems (such as with the Brionna Taylor case) where people were lied to\had facts hidden from them, and were later surprised by the results.

Sadly, to those dishonest people, pushing their agenda is more important than ensuring only factual information is supplied, or making it clear when something is an assumption\not supported by facts\evidence.


You are basing your assumptions on a lot of grainy videos so I would prefer to hear what the court has to say particularly in light of other criminal proceedings bought forward by the families of the deceased whom you have dishonestly and consistently insinuated are supporting criminals and rioters .

I am merely expressing my opinion, after all that's the purpose of a discussion forum, Please stop trying to silence my perspective just because it doesn't fit with your conservative world views. I don't stop you from presenting what you call "facts"