Police shooting in Wisconsin,protests erupt

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Brictoria
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28 Sep 2020, 2:00 am

cyberdad wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
TheRobotLives wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
Similarly, you have this constant (pavlovian) responce that he "provoked" the protestors who he shot, yet whenever verifiable evidence (or in fact any, given that the actual evidence held\presented by the police does not include it, and I have seen nothing published to indicateit occuring) is requested, you slink away, unable to provide it...

Barnes explicitly stated that the prosecution will find antifa witnesses who say Rittenhouse provoked them.

It may not be true.

It may be subjective.

However, Barnes describes this as a failing of the defense team "lock down" all witnesses into a testimony.


From what I can tell, L. Lin Wood and John Pierce don't have background in these types of cases\this states's laws, and have been having problems getting local lawyers (related to their background, not the case), which has caused the delays, as well as other failings so far regarding the defence case.

The point I was making is that there are certain member(s) who have a reputation for making statements (such as that Kyle provoked Mr Rosenbaum), yet every time they are asked what evidence they have to support their claim which they had asserted as being a fact, they either run off to hide, ignore that request when replying, or (rarely) admit that is was an assumption, not a fact...And then repeat the process in another thread (or even the same one). This shows great disrespect for those reading their posts and seeking an honest discussion\explanation of events, as well as leading to problems (such as with the Brionna Taylor case) where people were lied to\had facts hidden from them, and were later surprised by the results.

Sadly, to those dishonest people, pushing their agenda is more important than ensuring only factual information is supplied, or making it clear when something is an assumption\not supported by facts\evidence.


You are basing your assumptions on a lot of grainy videos so I would prefer to hear what the court has to say particularly in light of other criminal proceedings bought forward by the families of the deceased whom you have dishonestly and consistently insinuated are supporting criminals and rioters .

I am merely expressing my opinion, after all that's the purpose of a discussion forum, Please stop trying to silence my perspective just because it doesn't fit with your conservative world views. I don't stop you from presenting what you call "facts"


The problem with your "witness statement", as has been indicated each time you posted it, is that there is nothing verifiable included:
* No time indicating when the claimed "encouter" occured (within, say, a 5 minute window).
* No location for the claimed "encounter".
* No footage\photographs (either of the claimed "encounter", or of their even being present).

The interesting use of emotive language throughout the article is also interesting, reading more like something wishing to pursuade rather than to inform.

Similarly, the fact that "Huber" who was supposedly "chasing" kyle, according to your "witness" is not shown in footage of Kyle running, instead charging across the road from at him. This is followed by a claim that the person armed with the handgun was running towards the person with the skateboard who had been shot, but it is clearly visible on film that he was headed towards Kyle, not away from him in the direction of the skateboarder.

I think you will find that the article is a piece of fiction, interlaced with facts so as to give the opinion of being true, rather than an honest account.

Comments such as:
Quote:
"Gaige is a very kind and peaceful man and people who are trying to argue that he's not are just wrong," she said. "He never would have pulled that gun unless he thought his life was at risk."

about a person who has been quoted as saying he wished he had shot Kyle also do not sem to align too well.

Absent something which verifies (time\location), your "witness statement" is simply hearsay, made some time after the events, and of dubious evidentiary value - A fact noted multiple times.

There's nothing wrong with having an opinion...It becomes a problem when an opinion is presented as fact, as that leads to people being surprised when facts contradict opinions that they had perceived as being truthful through the opinion holders presentation of those opinions.

Having said that, there is footage available of one person talking to Kyle, having remembered him from when he was asked by Kyle to step away from a car at a location he was protecting. The person indicates the gun at that time had been carried normally, pointing downward at the ground beside Kyle, not forward towards a person, nor aimed at anyone, and they are happy to talk to each other, indicating there was little likelyhood of any aggression shown previously (on either side)...

Looking at the footage, and based on the time (as per Kyle's interview with reporter and "probably cause" statements), it may even be that this was very shortly before Mt Rosenbaum tried to approach Kyle: Kyle, the reporter and the person there to "protect" him had comleted the "interview" and were walking down the street towards a gathering, where Kyle offered first-aid to anyone who needed it. The footage cut off while Kyle was walking peacefully through the people congregated on the road, with the person who was "guarding" him off camera beside the reporter. This would appear to tie in with the probable cause component:
Quote:
Mcginnis said that as they were walking south, another armed male who appeared to be in his 30's joined them and said he was there to protect the defendant. Mcginnis stated that before the defendant reached the parking lot and ran across it, the defendant had moved from the middle of Sheridan Road to the seidewalkand that is when McGinnis saw a male (Rosenbaum) initially try to engage the defendant. McGinnis stated that as the defendant was walking Rosenbaum was trying to get closer to the defendant. When Rosenbaum advanced, the defendant did a "juke" move and started running.


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cyberdad
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28 Sep 2020, 4:38 am

Brictoria wrote:
There's nothing wrong with having an opinion...It becomes a problem when an opinion is presented as fact, as that leads to people being surprised when facts contradict opinions that they had perceived as being truthful through the opinion holders presentation of those opinions.


I am not presenting my views as facts but rather as a perspective. I have already said the "stars seem to be aligning for Rittenhouse" in terms of the video evidence not being clear in his being a provocateur so the defence does have a case.

I am annoyed at the moment he is not cooperating with the Wisconsin authorities, especially since Trump is supposed to be one of his supporters.



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01 Oct 2020, 10:55 am

Accused killer Kyle Rittenhouse plans to sue Biden for libel, attorney says

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An attorney for Kyle Rittenhouse — who is accused of killing two protesters during demonstrations sparked by the police shooting of Jacob Blake – has announced plans to sue Joe Biden and his campaign for libel after he tweeted a video suggesting the Illinois teen is a white supremacist, according to a report.


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Brictoria
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09 Oct 2020, 1:13 am

Some more information from the reporter who interviewed Kyle, and witnessed the shooting, which provides additional information:


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09 Oct 2020, 1:21 am

Mother of murderer getting a standing ovation at republican event

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/wend ... ent-2020-9

Still evading extradition to face justice
https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/bre ... story.html

Strange? I thought he'd get a heroes welcome in Wisconsin, after all isn't justice on his side :roll:



Brictoria
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09 Oct 2020, 1:26 am

cyberdad wrote:
Mother of murderer getting a standing ovation at republican event

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/wend ... ent-2020-9


I wasn't aware there was a trial and verdict delivered for her son already...Could you clarify when this occurred and the reporting of his being found guilty of murder, given that until that point he is (at most) an accussed murderer?


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09 Oct 2020, 1:52 am

cyberdad wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
There's nothing wrong with having an opinion...It becomes a problem when an opinion is presented as fact, as that leads to people being surprised when facts contradict opinions that they had perceived as being truthful through the opinion holders presentation of those opinions.


I am not presenting my views as facts but rather as a perspective. I have already said the "stars seem to be aligning for Rittenhouse" in terms of the video evidence not being clear in his being a provocateur so the defence does have a case.

I am annoyed at the moment he is not cooperating with the Wisconsin authorities, especially since Trump is supposed to be one of his supporters.


He isn't cooperating because he knows the evidence won't exonerate him. He won't feel so tough in prison.


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09 Oct 2020, 4:39 am

funeralxempire wrote:
He isn't cooperating because he knows the evidence won't exonerate him. He won't feel so tough in prison.


But wait! he's an all-American hero, I thought he stands for truth and justice :lol:

So the man who defends the US criminal justice system is now saying he doesn't trust it! Oh heavens this is quite the turn around isn't it.



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13 Oct 2020, 3:52 am

According to the NY times the lawyers defending Rittenhouse have garners $2 million in donations from anonymous donors.

L. Lin Wood has frequently posted online slogans from QAnon, the sprawling, far-right conspiracy theories that posit the world is run by Satan-worshiping pedophiles plotting against Mr. Trump while operating a global child sex-trafficking ring. Gives a clearer picture the type of distorted evil that is bubbling up to the surface in the current political climate.

Meanwhile Rittenhouse after playing "big boy soldier" with loaded guns now wants to be treated like a baby

https://www.chicagotribune.com/columns/ ... story.html



Brictoria
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18 Oct 2020, 10:10 pm

Someone has put together a composite of various videos related to Kyle (not defence, nor prosecution, as far as I can tell), along with a break-down of what is included in them.

Some footage I hadn't seen before, including from the person who was shot in the arm. interestingly, it shows how little time there was between when Kyle was filmed running with the fire extinguisher and when he first fired his rifle, as well as how there was little (if any) time for an interaction between Kyle and Mr Rosenbaum before he started chasing Kyle.

First 13 minutes has composition of the footage, rest of video covers a breakdown of each video (I haven't watched that as yet).


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19 Oct 2020, 2:06 am

Rittenhouse is such a good samaritan who fundamentally believes in the application of the rule of law (all the blue lives matter and blue line BS he parrots) then it seems strange that he and his legal team are so frightened of the legal and criminal justice process (which he champions) that they are trying delaying tactics to avoid him going to trial??

They are equating the legal system in Wisconsin as being turned over to the mob? Rittenhouse's legal team is raising technicalities about typographical errors in documents which is strange since according to my limited knowledge of US law The Illinois arrest citation had nothing to do with the Wisconsin governor's grant of extradition nor is it relevant to the hearing that he is being requested to attend in Wisconsin which he is hiding from.

And what is he hiding from? perhaps witnesses who might testify against him perhaps?

Not really the actions of a hero, more like the tactics of a criminal avoiding prosecution.



Brictoria
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12 Feb 2021, 5:50 am

Seems there have been a couple of updates regarding Mr Rittenhouse:

The civil suit against him was recently dismissed "with prejudice":

Quote:
The plaintiffs in a civil suit filed against Kyle Rittenhouse, Facebook and the Kenosha Guard dropped their suit this week.

Rittenhouse, 18, of Antioch, Ill., is accused of killing two men and severely injuring a third during the August protests that occurred in the aftermath of the shooting of Jacob Blake by a Kenosha police officer. He has pleaded not guilty, arguing that he fired in self-defense.

Source: https://www.kenoshanews.com/news/local/plaintiffs-drop-federal-suit-in-kyle-rittenhouse-case/article_8fda21ff-b5f7-5ae6-a762-9ef0a0ca3dfa.html

And a hearing regarding "bail violations", resulting in no change to his conditions or bail amount:

(I'm not sure Mr Huber did himself any favours with a couple of things he did during this, should the judge review the video..."Contempt of court" being a possible result)


As to:
cyberdad wrote:
And what is he hiding from? perhaps witnesses who might testify against him perhaps?

The hearing (from around 13:00) has the DA providing (however inadvertently) a possible answer - The DA is supposedly concerned for the safety of the people who now live at the address that was previously on record for him. If the DA feels that a 3rd party living at an address linked to Mr Rittenhouse may be at danger simply because of this link, there must be some reason behind it...


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"When people express opinions that differ from yours, take it as a chance to grow. Seek to understand over being understood. Be curious, not defensive. The only way to disarm another human being is by listening." - Glennon Doyle Melton

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“There was a saying that a man's true character was revealed in defeat. I thought it was also revealed in victory.”
― Alison Goodman, Eon: Dragoneye Reborn


Brictoria
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13 Feb 2021, 8:36 pm

Going back to the original shooting that launched this:

Quote:
In his first television interview since being shot in the back by police, Jacob Blake admitted that he not only had a knife in his possession at the time of the shooting, but also “dropped” it before picking it up again.

“I realized I had dropped my knife, had a little pocket knife. So I picked it up after I got off of him because they tased me and I fell on top of him,” Blake told Michael Strahan in an interview that aired Thursday on ABC’s Good Morning America (GMA).

“I shouldn’t have picked it up, only considering what was going on,” he continued. “At that time, I wasn’t thinking clearly.” Earlier this month, Kenosha County district attorney Michael Graveley said that he would not file charges against Officer Rusten Sheskey, who shot Blake seven times, given that the officer was acting in self-defense against an armed assailant. Blake also had a past arrest for resisting police with a knife.

Blake’s admission contradicts past statements from his family and attorneys, who denied that he had a knife in his possession when police shot him on August 23, in an incident that stemmed from a 911 call made by the mother of Blake’s children, who told police that Blake was trying to drive away in her rental car with two of his sons.

Source: https://news.yahoo.com/jacob-blake-himself-blows-unarmed-203902290.html


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"When people express opinions that differ from yours, take it as a chance to grow. Seek to understand over being understood. Be curious, not defensive. The only way to disarm another human being is by listening." - Glennon Doyle Melton

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“There was a saying that a man's true character was revealed in defeat. I thought it was also revealed in victory.”
― Alison Goodman, Eon: Dragoneye Reborn


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13 Feb 2021, 8:56 pm

Rittenhouse has been allowed to slink into the darkness while on a $2 million bond.

John Huber, the father of 26-year-old Anthony Huber, one of the men Rittenhouse fatally shot, angrily told the judge the teen’s bond should be $4 million as he argued in support of the prosecutors’ requests.
“From the moment he became a killer, he thought he was above the law. And he has no remorse for what he’s done,” John Huber said. “This kid, we don’t know where he is. You don’t know where he lives.”
Assistant District Attorney Thomas Binger used the hearing to echo the motions he filed last week. In that paperwork, he argued the public has a right to know where Rittenhouse lives and contended he “apparently believes the rules do not apply to him.”

Meanwhile Kyle Rittenhouse, 18, was photographed in an undisclosed location drinking, using hand gestures appropriated by white supremacists and meeting members of the Proud Boys group at a bar, prosecutors say. (Kenosha County District Attorney)

Image



Brictoria
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13 Feb 2021, 10:04 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Rittenhouse has been allowed to slink into the darkness while on a $2 million bond.

John Huber, the father of 26-year-old Anthony Huber, one of the men Rittenhouse fatally shot, angrily told the judge the teen’s bond should be $4 million as he argued in support of the prosecutors’ requests.
“From the moment he became a killer, he thought he was above the law. And he has no remorse for what he’s done,” John Huber said. “This kid, we don’t know where he is. You don’t know where he lives.”
Assistant District Attorney Thomas Binger used the hearing to echo the motions he filed last week. In that paperwork, he argued the public has a right to know where Rittenhouse lives and contended he “apparently believes the rules do not apply to him.”

Meanwhile Kyle Rittenhouse, 18, was photographed in an undisclosed location drinking, using hand gestures appropriated by white supremacists and meeting members of the Proud Boys group at a bar, prosecutors say. (Kenosha County District Attorney)

Image


This post might have been more appropriate had it been before the "issues" mentioned in it were addressed in court and posted about 2 days ago in this same thread...

Interesting use of emotive language, too, rather than simply presenting facts - Almost as though there is a desire to "lead" the reader to a certain view, where facts may not bear it out:
"slink into the darkness" - According to the court case (linked in a post before this is a copy of that being addressed by the court), a forwarding address was not updated (according to the judge, this is far from unusual to occur), but has been remedied, with the court being provided his address in a manner similar to being "under seal". The issue which insitigated this (a letter about an upcoming hearing which was returned) was also considered moot, as Mr Rittenhouse attended, despite not having received the letter.

The mention of the father of one of the people killed saying "This kid, we don’t know where he is. You don’t know where he lives" along with the DA's concern about not having a residential address was countered by the DA elsewhere during the hearing, who mentioned that the fact that the address on record not being where Mr Rittenhouse lived may be putting the residents of the address at danger: It seems (based on his argument) there is concern that innocent people are at risk because their address is currently published as that of Mr Rittenhouse, but Mr Rittenhouse won't be at danger should his current address be published - Something of a contradiction there...

As to the last paragraph\photograph - That was addressed in an earlier hearing (There was no "white supremecist" motive behind the use of the symbol, as much as some desire it to have been there, based on the selective "highlighting" used around it). I'm sure those with actual interest in the case can find the information about this earlier hearing easily enough.


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"When people express opinions that differ from yours, take it as a chance to grow. Seek to understand over being understood. Be curious, not defensive. The only way to disarm another human being is by listening." - Glennon Doyle Melton

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"Never forget that you have every right to question any individual, system, movement, or group that only tolerates you when you think and behave exactly like them" - Africa Brooke

Quote:
“There was a saying that a man's true character was revealed in defeat. I thought it was also revealed in victory.”
― Alison Goodman, Eon: Dragoneye Reborn


cyberdad
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13 Feb 2021, 10:41 pm

My understanding is that Rittenhouse's defense team claimed he was receiving death threats, however it is unusual for a person on bond for murder to not disclose their location as there is the obvious issues that i) he will be breaching the conditions of his probation and ii) he will abscond before his trial.

I imagine cavorting with known right wing groups (Proud boys) in a bar posing while doing white supremacist hand signs and drinking alcohol (he is under aged) might not exactly be what the judge had in mind when he allowed bail.

It's a slap in the face (regardless of your opinion) to the families of the deceased.