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Nades
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28 Aug 2020, 12:02 pm

I imagine to most of you it's no mystery that Autism has some degree of a "childlike" stigma to it. Indeed, most of the social groups for people with autism are mostly focused on parents with autistic children. All the social media groups relating to autism I have joined are almost exclusively parent and child orientated and very little is for adults despite the fact most people with autism are over 18. I have managed to find out very good group for adults with autism in my area but that's so far it.

Another issue (at least in my eyes) that has been grating on me is this sudden increase in making public places autism friendly despite personally thinking it does more harm than good and is far too specific to work in practice. I think all it does is make the stigma worse by people wrongly assuming autistic people can only cope in society if society conforms to them. Not only does that concept slightly annoy me but I think long term it harms the people it's supposed to help by effectively trying to make a societal and social "bubble" for them to live in that's removed from the norm.

Over the years I have seen autistic adults who make me wonder just what they could have achieved if it wasn't for the never ending shielding from their parents (Some parents are FAR worse than others). It's almost like some of them have been stuck in an arrested development where they question their own ability every time they're confronted with a challenge despite them being perfectly capable deep down inside. Driving licences, part time work, intimacy with a partner, just...taking on a challenge or going outside their comfort zone a bit, a lot of those recommendations have been shot down by some autistic friends and I wonder why.

I'm not deluded however, I know full well not all people with Aspergers or autism in general can blend in seamlessly with society, autism is autism and it effects everyone different including myself but Iv'e always thought it's good to at least try.

I have no idea what anyone's ideas are on confronting "normie" society instead of hiding to a limited extent from it.

Has anyone else noticed or had the same thoughts as me on the subject?



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28 Aug 2020, 1:49 pm

Nades wrote:
I think all it does is make the stigma worse by people wrongly assuming autistic people can only cope in society if society conforms to them.


This reminds me of this Ted Talk I saw. The autistic speaker is arguing that society needs to adapt for autistic people, rather than the other way around. A quote: "I'm actively being disabled by the society around me."


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28 Aug 2020, 2:01 pm

I've kind of stayed away from people as a whole since I realized this is sort of inevitably how they all think. There are even numerous posters on the spectrum here who think this way.

Me? DX'd Aspergers at age 5 & I've been a self-trained hacker for almost 20 years. There is nothing I don't do myself unless for some reason there are other people around. I'm working in the second fortune 500 company on my CV & hopefully finding a permanent job there. Sure, I joke about basically being twelve because I'm a total punk weirdo but that doesn't confer license for everyone to treat me like a kid all the time, which many do anyway. I am well aware there is nothing I can't do; my day to day however consists of people treating me like they're surprised I can put on socks.

Most of them can't drive stick & write code. :roll:

Staying young inside one's own brain isn't regressive, it's practical because people who've decided they're through with learning are just a PITA for others who wish to remain productive. Obviously not all learning styles are immediately compatible but I think the friction is worth it to keep one's brain active.


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28 Aug 2020, 2:04 pm

tl;dr It's up to us to rant enough about this so things will finally change.


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28 Aug 2020, 2:19 pm

It's a spectrum and even those of us who are HFA need autistic friendly spaces.

I didn't use to need that when I went to the theatre but I do now because even the adult shows (esp the musicals) are absolutely full of bright lights.

I didn't ask for these eyes and it doesn't make me childlike to have them.

I didn't ask for my breakdown either and it doesn't make me childlike to be unable to thrive in the capitalist system you love so much.



Nades
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28 Aug 2020, 2:31 pm

Carpeta wrote:
Nades wrote:
I think all it does is make the stigma worse by people wrongly assuming autistic people can only cope in society if society conforms to them.


This reminds me of this Ted Talk I saw. The autistic speaker is arguing that society needs to adapt for autistic people, rather than the other way around. A quote: "I'm actively being disabled by the society around me."


Facing the challenges society throws at you regardless of how big or small is what grows character and true independance. I genuinely believe a great deal of mild autism sufferers just need a bit of a prod to step out of their comfort zone. I think it'll do a lot of good in the long run.

I was absolutely terrified of entering the world of work until my father forced me at the age of 23 (after a strop and cry). Fast forward 8 years and I work all the overtime they throw at me...within reason that is. 50+ hour weeks are the norm where as before I would never have thought if it. I make a fair whack annually now and paid off two mortgages with my third mortgage looking mighty small now. I'm never looking back.

Without my dad literally forcing me to get that job I imagine I would still be sitting at home feeling lost.



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28 Aug 2020, 2:37 pm

If it wasn't for ESA, I'd be sitting at home struggling to get a job and feeling more and more ill.

Instead, I'm doing art and being productive in my own way.

"No matter how big" - you have no idea what a spectrum is, and it shows.

It's more grown up to realise that and help others and understand the struggles others face than to develop the high school like NT mentality that a lot of NTs and autistic people with tech jobs have and brag about how well off you are. This 'I'm all right jack' mentality. Very American tbh and it's a shame it's spreading to Europe esp in the UK.

There's a reason why I was an 'objectivist' at 18 and I'm a socialist now. Because that kind of 'it's all right for me, so it will be all right for you' attitude is actually very immature.



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28 Aug 2020, 2:40 pm

Well it's a lot of blood, sweat & tears to get any kind of solid tech job for us; simply because we've concluded society needs to adapt is no excuse for the lack of respect towards tech people on the spectrum too. You would not be making that statement online without techies.


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28 Aug 2020, 2:48 pm

Um... no. The suggestion was that autistic people need to adapt to society. I was the only one arguing against that bullshit.

It doesn't make you superior to anyone else simply because you have a job.

This kind of capitalist rhetoric pushes me in the other direction tbh.

The spectrum is a massive place and just because 'you struggled' doesn't mean that other people have to do the exact same struggle as you. That is prejudiced, ableist thinking.

If you can get on in the system, good for you. But if you can't, if someone can't, that doesn't make them more of a child. It takes maturity to admit that. It takes maturity to care for others.

Fact is society will 'accept' HFA people in tech jobs most readily but as soon as you slip up or are out of work, the same system people on this thread are worshipping will hurt them too.

Society is the problem here. Not autistic people. WP is the last place I want to come to read messages about how if you don't do well in a capitalist system you're 'childlike'.



Nades
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28 Aug 2020, 3:23 pm

KT67 wrote:
Um... no. The suggestion was that autistic people need to adapt to society. I was the only one arguing against that bullshit.

It doesn't make you superior to anyone else simply because you have a job.

This kind of capitalist rhetoric pushes me in the other direction tbh.

The spectrum is a massive place and just because 'you struggled' doesn't mean that other people have to do the exact same struggle as you. That is prejudiced, ableist thinking.

If you can get on in the system, good for you. But if you can't, if someone can't, that doesn't make them more of a child. It takes maturity to admit that. It takes maturity to care for others.

Fact is society will 'accept' HFA people in tech jobs most readily but as soon as you slip up or are out of work, the same system people on this thread are worshipping will hurt them too.

Society is the problem here. Not autistic people. WP is the last place I want to come to read messages about how if you don't do well in a capitalist system you're 'childlike'.


Autism does indeed affect people in differing levels but I still think it's not realistic to make everything autism friendly.

I think you're placing to much weight on politics too. I don't really see how the capitalism vs socialism has much to do with how autistic friendly society is in.



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28 Aug 2020, 3:25 pm

Being diagnosed with AS at age 5 basically means you were Level 1 at age 5, and have had many years to move beyond that, presumably up to level <1. Someone diagnosed Level 3 at age 5 may never be able to move past that (when you were 5, they would've been diagnosed with autism, not AS). They say a little bit of autism helps at tech jobs (and I emphasize a little bit). NTs also have to work very hard at a full-time job (not just those on the spectrum). This is why it's important to understand what AS is versus autism.

I worked as a peer specialist in mental health for a few years...to help others with mental illnesses, because I had schizoaffective disorder and substance use disorder, and recovered. But I came to realize that you can't just come along and say "look, I had this diagnosis as well, and I got better, so you can do the same". It's just not that simple. Others may never be able to recover or advance, and it's not their fault. It's not about better or worse, but different.


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28 Aug 2020, 3:59 pm

KT67 wrote:
Um... no. The suggestion was that autistic people need to adapt to society. I was the only one arguing against that bullshit.

It doesn't make you superior to anyone else simply because you have a job.

This kind of capitalist rhetoric pushes me in the other direction tbh.

The spectrum is a massive place and just because 'you struggled' doesn't mean that other people have to do the exact same struggle as you. That is prejudiced, ableist thinking.

If you can get on in the system, good for you. But if you can't, if someone can't, that doesn't make them more of a child. It takes maturity to admit that. It takes maturity to care for others.

Fact is society will 'accept' HFA people in tech jobs most readily but as soon as you slip up or are out of work, the same system people on this thread are worshipping will hurt them too.

Society is the problem here. Not autistic people. WP is the last place I want to come to read messages about how if you don't do well in a capitalist system you're 'childlike'.


I'm not saying that at all, I was saying that your taking for granted me being "respected" for what I do is the problem. That's not respect, it's a stereotype.


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28 Aug 2020, 4:00 pm

Here I am, productive existence & all, being talked down to like a kid by someone else with ASD, feels like s**t I must say.


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28 Aug 2020, 4:01 pm

I actually like building technologies for a society that will never care what I build. Imagine that!


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28 Aug 2020, 4:05 pm

PS you are looking at a socialist.


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28 Aug 2020, 4:12 pm

Nades wrote:
... Over the years I have seen autistic adults who make me wonder just what they could have achieved if it wasn't for the never ending shielding from their parents (Some parents are FAR worse than others).  It's almost like some of them have been stuck in an arrested development where they question their own ability every time they're confronted with a challenge despite them being perfectly capable deep down inside.  Driving licences, part time work, intimacy with a partner, just... taking on a challenge or going outside their comfort zone a bit, a lot of those recommendations have been shot down by some autistic friends and I wonder why. ...
My father was the opposite.  His method of raising me was more of a "Stand on your own two feet and fight your own battles" and "Stop that crying or I'll give you something to cry about" kind of philosophy.

Had I been coddled, sheltered, and insulated from the world, I would likely be just another overweight and unemployed 60-something creep living by the week in a motel room off the freeway with no friends or family to speak of.

Gee ... thanks, Dad.


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