Why are the police so intimidated by protesters?

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auntblabby
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13 Sep 2020, 12:17 am

ironpony wrote:
Oh okay. I didn't think that higher IQ's would help since there are a lot of sociopaths with high IQ's unless I am wrong on that of course :). Is 106 IQ really that low though?

But if the police were muc more educated in different areas, that would cost more to train them, so wouldn't that need more funding, than defunding?

a reallocation of funding would be appropriate here, there is no "one size fits all" though. psychopaths tend to be on the higher IQ end, sociopaths tend towards the opposite direction, i have read. think ted bundy versus your typical kook who goes ballistic when you ask him to wear a friggin' mask.



ironpony
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13 Sep 2020, 12:56 am

Oh okay. But if the hired higher IQ cops, wouldn't the chances of getting more psychopaths be greater then?

Also a lot of the protestors are saying defund the police and not redirect funds. Unless they are using the wrong vocabulary?



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13 Sep 2020, 1:17 am

ironpony wrote:
Oh okay. But if the hired higher IQ cops, wouldn't the chances of getting more psychopaths be greater then? Also a lot of the protestors are saying defund the police and not redirect funds. Unless they are using the wrong vocabulary?

protests tend not to stress nuance, they are at the fed-up point where the blunt emotion comes out. and psychopaths [as opposed to garden variety sociopaths] tend to be fairly rare, and are not always overtly toxic people most of the time, many psychopaths are people like top soldiers and fighter pilots and brain surgeons, for example. very high achievers. psychopathic cops, if they were raised/socialized right [proper and extended vetting is essential here along with a long probationary period which is the norm in civilized countries not ours] will tend to be more nuanced and not blunt. what many of the protesters really want is for the brutality and double-standards/hypocrisy to stop NOW.



ironpony
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13 Sep 2020, 1:30 am

Oh okay I see. But if the protesters keep asking for defunding, the governmors and mayors might misread what they are wanting and actually cut the police's funding, which could lead to more problems then, wouldn't it?



Tahitiii
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13 Sep 2020, 3:04 am

"Defund the police" is short-hand. It gets the point across in the fewest words possible.
The police today are called in to a lot of situations where they don't belong and can do only harm.
Autistic people are a popular target for ignorant cops who do all they can to trigger a panic reaction, then use that as an excuse for assault.
They're also called for mental health issues and, again, they do more harm than good.
If you call an ambulance because Grandpa is having a heart attack, you don't need a cop; that just makes everything worse.
Non-violent "crimes" don't require some guy with a gun -- passing a fake $20 is not an excuse for assault; that should just be a ticket or a summons.
A lot of cops are pumped up on steroids, which makes them violent & crazy.
A lot of cops just like having someone to beat up, and they know society will let them get away with it in minority neighborhoods.
It's not about "bad apples." It's a culture. As a cop, you go along with it or you get out.
On the rare occasion you really need a bunch of thugs on steroids, you can still call a swat team.
Between "Qualified Immunity" and police unions that have gotten so strong, they can literally get away with murder.
Poor people who can't make bail can sit in jail for years before a trial, just for stealing a back pack, and most people never get a trial at all. The innocent are forced to plea bargain. If they had to give everyone a fair trial, it would crash the system.
`
The biggest part of the problem is the PRISON INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX, which is how the oligarchs profit from wrongful imprisonment. Some major corporations and some local and state budgets are so dependant on cheap prison labor that to suddenly end this new form of slavery would crash the economy. The rich people would have to give up a lot of free stuff and start paying taxes.
They also use cheap, forced, prison labor to break labor union strikes.
It was deliberately built into the system. They get away with it because the 13th Amendment, which was supposed to END slavery, just shifted from the old chattel slavery to this new form of slavery when they snuck in the phrase, "except as punishment for crime."
The drug war was a racist fraud from the beginning, knowingly created exactly for this purpose. They knew they were lying. It's systemic racism, by design. Rich people still like slavery.
`
"Defund the police" means replacing a lot of the cops, in some neighborhoods as by much as half, and replacing them with social workers, medical professionals and others who are more appropriate for the situation. It also means shifting funding to programs that help rather than hurt, or building schools rather than jails.
It also means NOT doing things that don't need doing, like harassing people for no good reason at all, or hauling innocent people off to jail just to feed the prison industrial complex.
`
Why are the cops themselves threatened by the protests? Because (1) they know that a lot of them are going to be unemployed soon, and (2) a lot of them are sadistic monsters who love being able to beat up anyone they like, any time they like, and they don't want to give that up.
`
To "re-imagine" or "reform" or "restructure" the police isn't good enough. It's all been tried, for decades, and the politicians PRETEND they don't know that their solutions only compound the problems. The word for that is "disingenuous." They know, just like the authors of the 13th Amendment knew what they were doing. Pouring money on top is like white-washing a fence that is rotten to the core. We need to pull it out by the roots, in a way that will actually make a difference, and "Defund the Police."

It's hard to fit all that on a little cardboard sign. So we say, "Defund the Police."



ImagineDragons
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13 Sep 2020, 3:50 am

ironpony wrote:
All these protests about defunding the police, and the police in major U.S. cities are actually listening, and defunding themselves.

But the police have gone up against the mafia, terrorist groups, etc. Why are they intimidated by these protesters, who are basically amateurs compared to real criminal organizations? The police have no problem taking on armed gunmen in fights, but people holding up defund the police signs are too scary for them for some reason. Unless I am missing something?



Well the police are stood there behind shields whilst the protesters are throwing bricks , bottles , Molotov cocktails or whatever

I’d be petrified .


I don’t know why they don’t have snipers on the rooftops - simply target the worst offenders ( the most violent ones ) and shoot them with dart guns or rubber bullets ..



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13 Sep 2020, 11:42 am

Prison slavery is more profitable than chattel slavery. If you're a major corporation, you get forced labor for pennies per hour, while the tax payer covers the real cost. You don't have to feed and house them, you don't have to round them up and beat them into submission. If they're sick or uncooperative, just throw them back and get more.
The oppression isn't limited to what happens in the prison itself. It also involves the deliberate destruction of the family; degradation of the education system and economic opportunity; the decades of propaganda & cop shows that tell us black men are scary and cops are heroes; the psychology of terrorism when you never know whether your guys are going to make it home; and the general psychology of shame and hopelessness.
It's systemic. It's all intentional.

"We are not responsible for the mental illness that has been inflicted upon our people by the American government, institutions, and those people who are in positions of power...
"Don't talk to us about 'Looting.' Y'all are the looters... Looting is what you do... We learned violence from you..."
~ Tamika Mallery https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ecy0QLVES8



ironpony
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13 Sep 2020, 6:24 pm

Tahitiii wrote:
"Defund the police" is short-hand. It gets the point across in the fewest words possible.
The police today are called in to a lot of situations where they don't belong and can do only harm.
Autistic people are a popular target for ignorant cops who do all they can to trigger a panic reaction, then use that as an excuse for assault.
They're also called for mental health issues and, again, they do more harm than good.
If you call an ambulance because Grandpa is having a heart attack, you don't need a cop; that just makes everything worse.
Non-violent "crimes" don't require some guy with a gun -- passing a fake $20 is not an excuse for assault; that should just be a ticket or a summons.
A lot of cops are pumped up on steroids, which makes them violent & crazy.
A lot of cops just like having someone to beat up, and they know society will let them get away with it in minority neighborhoods.
It's not about "bad apples." It's a culture. As a cop, you go along with it or you get out.
On the rare occasion you really need a bunch of thugs on steroids, you can still call a swat team.
Between "Qualified Immunity" and police unions that have gotten so strong, they can literally get away with murder.
Poor people who can't make bail can sit in jail for years before a trial, just for stealing a back pack, and most people never get a trial at all. The innocent are forced to plea bargain. If they had to give everyone a fair trial, it would crash the system.
`
The biggest part of the problem is the PRISON INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX, which is how the oligarchs profit from wrongful imprisonment. Some major corporations and some local and state budgets are so dependant on cheap prison labor that to suddenly end this new form of slavery would crash the economy. The rich people would have to give up a lot of free stuff and start paying taxes.
They also use cheap, forced, prison labor to break labor union strikes.
It was deliberately built into the system. They get away with it because the 13th Amendment, which was supposed to END slavery, just shifted from the old chattel slavery to this new form of slavery when they snuck in the phrase, "except as punishment for crime."
The drug war was a racist fraud from the beginning, knowingly created exactly for this purpose. They knew they were lying. It's systemic racism, by design. Rich people still like slavery.
`
"Defund the police" means replacing a lot of the cops, in some neighborhoods as by much as half, and replacing them with social workers, medical professionals and others who are more appropriate for the situation. It also means shifting funding to programs that help rather than hurt, or building schools rather than jails.
It also means NOT doing things that don't need doing, like harassing people for no good reason at all, or hauling innocent people off to jail just to feed the prison industrial complex.
`
Why are the cops themselves threatened by the protests? Because (1) they know that a lot of them are going to be unemployed soon, and (2) a lot of them are sadistic monsters who love being able to beat up anyone they like, any time they like, and they don't want to give that up.
`
To "re-imagine" or "reform" or "restructure" the police isn't good enough. It's all been tried, for decades, and the politicians PRETEND they don't know that their solutions only compound the problems. The word for that is "disingenuous." They know, just like the authors of the 13th Amendment knew what they were doing. Pouring money on top is like white-washing a fence that is rotten to the core. We need to pull it out by the roots, in a way that will actually make a difference, and "Defund the Police."

It's hard to fit all that on a little cardboard sign. So we say, "Defund the Police."


Oh okay. Well some of the points I do not agree with based on the wording. For cops being pumped up on steroids, cops get drug tested regularly, a few times a year at least, and it's done at random times, they do not see coming. So a lot of them have steroids in their system they would be fired. So this not not a normal occurence, where they would be able to keep their jobs and it would be found out.

Passing a fake 20 is a felony, therefore it is an arrest and not a ticket. So it's not like the officers were suppose to write him a ticket and move on. I am not saying they should have murdered him at all, but they were required to place him under arrest and take him to the station of course. Now perhaps social workers should have been sent to deal with Floyd passing counterfeit money, but those social workers would still legally have to arrest him though legally.

Also, if you are charged with a felony, you do have the choice to go trial and do not have to plea bargain. There is no not getting a trial. If you don't plea bargain, you will get a trial.

I agree with all the other points though.



Tahitiii
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13 Sep 2020, 8:14 pm

That is how the world should be. That's not the world that is. Most people do NOT get a trial. They are forced to plea bargain, and those who demand a trial are punished, and go to prison, pretty much for life. Of course it's illegal and immoral and unconstitutional. They threw away that old rag years ago.

Chris Hedges On The Prison Industrial Complex -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__15Ybj4kno



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13 Sep 2020, 8:16 pm

(It's all one piece. It all works together.) Chris Hedges | Wages of Rebellion: The Moral Imperative of Revolt.
(1½ hour) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__15Ybj4kno



ironpony
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13 Sep 2020, 8:45 pm

Tahitiii wrote:
That is how the world should be. That's not the world that is. Most people do NOT get a trial. They are forced to plea bargain, and those who demand a trial are punished, and go to prison, pretty much for life. Of course it's illegal and immoral and unconstitutional. They threw away that old rag years ago.

Chris Hedges On The Prison Industrial Complex -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__15Ybj4kno


But if they want a trial and are punished, how are they punished though? You didn't say how, and what are some cases where this punishment for wanting a trial has happened? And what is forcing them to plea bargain?



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14 Sep 2020, 2:19 am

Why Innocent People Plead Guilty | Adnan Sultan | TEDxFurmanU. Mar 18, 2018
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TiXLqW0TXU



ironpony
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14 Sep 2020, 6:46 pm

Oh okay thanks. He makes some good points about bale reform that I can agree with. However, when it comes to his examples of real cases, some of the things he sites, he leaves out important details and there are holes in the stories.

He mentions how one person was arrested for a crime and had to wait in jail for three years before the prosecutions office came across the case. But the prosecutor is suppose to be at the arraignment which happens only a few days after you are arrested, tops. So it doesn't make sense why a prosecutor would take three years to find out about this when they normally would have been at the arraignment. He does not explain the arraignment at all in it.

He also says that prosecutors only give one time offers, but he doesn't explain why they would be one time. For example, why would a prosecutor give you a one time offer? If a defendant didn't accept a plea bargain, but then later changed their mind, a prosecutor would still go for it, to avoid a trial. It's not like they are going to say I am going to take this case to trial if the defendant doesn't decide right now? Why be that impulsive and commit to a trial, just because a defendant took longer than a day to decide for example?

Now let's say you are charged with a crime, and you are offered a plea bargain. What you do is say you may accept a plea bargain, but you want to see all the evidence against you first. That way if you are innocent, you know what holes you and your attorney could poke in the case at the preliminary hearing. Now a prosecutor is going to most likely to turn over the evidence, hoping you will still decide to take the plea bargain after looking it over. So why not ask for it?

Plus he doesn't even mention why the defedants didn't even see how the preliminary hearings turned out, before deciding whether or not to take a plea bargain. He skips over the preliminary hearing process entirely in his cases.

He also says that he represented an innocent man, but then



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14 Sep 2020, 9:03 pm

You insist on looking for logic. It's corrupt and illegal and immoral and unconstitutional and they all know it and they don't care.
The system is not broken, it's working exactly the way it's supposed to, to incarcerate as much free labor as possible, and to destroy as many lives and families as possible. Systemic racism is not an accident. These are sick people who really believe they have a right and even an obligation to oppress. And others who go along with it because they have no spine, integrity or a soul.
Prime examples are Biden, who wrote the crime bill that created this mess, and is proud of it; and Harris, a paddy roller who was happy to enforce it, even when she knew certain individuals were innocent. They're pigs.



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14 Sep 2020, 9:12 pm

Well it's not that mean to look at with logic, it's just that the person in the video didn't even mention certain things that were important to those cases. He is withholding important parts, in order to sell it a certain way, so I cannot agree with everything, if certain information is going to be withheld for me to make a judgment call on the system. If you want to talk about how corrupt a system is, you have to be willing to go into more details than he did, in order to ascertain more.