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Salt Lake City police shoot 13 year old autistic

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magz
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09 Sep 2020, 6:40 am

The story didn't stay on "local media" level: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-54041549

An interesting part is the bottom line of this article:

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According to data compiled and regularly updated by the Washington Post, 1,254 people with a mental illness have been shot dead by US police since the beginning of 2015. This represents 22% of all people shot and killed by police across the country over that period.


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emotrtkey
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09 Sep 2020, 4:44 pm

Benjamin the Donkey wrote:
emotrtkey wrote:
He's white so this will be ignored by the national mainstream media because it doesn't fit their agenda of promoting racism by dividing Americans and convincing people that cops are racist. Local news only.

Then why is it being covered by major news outlets around the country and the world? Your post says more about you than about the topic.


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Jiheisho
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09 Sep 2020, 4:57 pm

cyberdad wrote:
magz wrote:
Being a scientist myself: Science is based on systematic observation of reality, nothing less, nothing more..


Well observation is step 1.

A scientist still has to interpret their observation to a hypothesis.

evaluate their prediction using systematic and replicable observations based on their first prediction

Remove covarying reasons and time-order factors and eliminate all possible alternative causes

Only then have you acted scientifically


Perhaps step 1 is the hypothesis. Then you design the measurement and collect the data.



Jiheisho
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09 Sep 2020, 4:59 pm

magz wrote:
The story didn't stay on "local media" level: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-54041549

An interesting part is the bottom line of this article:
Quote:
According to data compiled and regularly updated by the Washington Post, 1,254 people with a mental illness have been shot dead by US police since the beginning of 2015. This represents 22% of all people shot and killed by police across the country over that period.


Yes, 1 in 5, not really great odds...



emotrtkey
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09 Sep 2020, 5:05 pm

magz wrote:
emotrtkey wrote:
It's not my theory. It's based on science. Sometimes people misinterpret things. How you think about what happens to you makes a big difference in how you feel. My life confirms that. Someone who believes his parents love and accept him, whose parents respond to his emotional needs, and believe they are doing their best to help him be the best person he can be will feel and react differently than someone whose parents aren't like that.

Being a scientist myself: Science is based on systematic observation of reality, nothing less, nothing more.
If I provide a viable counter-example to your theory, it means - at the very least - that your theory works only within specific circumstances.
Which seems to be the case here, as CBT is helpful for some and damaging for others.


Emotions is a special interest of mine. I've been studying and reading as much as I can about emotions and what causes them for awhile now. The science is clear that our thoughts and beliefs play a major role in how we feel. CBT isn't always helpful because it only addresses distorted thoughts. It's possible to suffer from emotional problems as a result of negative life experiences influencing your thoughts without distorting them. If your emotions are caused by something else and a therapist keeps trying to convince you that your thinking is irrational when it isn't, you're probably going to feel worse so I agree CBT can be harmful.



whatacrazyride
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09 Sep 2020, 11:12 pm

emotrtkey wrote:
magz wrote:
emotrtkey wrote:
I think the mother needs to be investigated. Children who are raised properly and consistently disciplined usually don't have mental breakdowns. It's her responsibility to discipline her child and teach him how to control his emotions. I think parents who refuse to teach and discipline their children should be charged with child abuse and have their children placed in foster care.

How much time a day do you spend with children? Any children.


Most of my problems were caused by bad parenting. Whenever I hear about parents raising autistic children, I consistently see the same bad parenting being used (no discipline, catering to their sensitivities, neglecting their feelings, telling them emotions just happen, etc.).

Studies show that mental illness has skyrocketed, with massive increases in depression and anxiety disorders, since parents replaced traditional parenting methods with the ones recommended by liberal psychologists based on bogus studies. Half of young people in the US are extremely sensitive, can't handle stress, suffer from anxiety, and feel like victims because they think other people are causing their emotions. No one taught them they are in control and cause their own emotions or trained them to think differently.


Now you're sounding like my parents. I was disciplined, including being spanked, loss of privileges, etc. My parents put my in "sink or swim" situations, and forced me to work through things, and not bail me out. I had the cops called on me twice. Violence was the reason they were called; when the police came, I knew who was boss. I immediately composed myself, and obeyed the cops order, or else I was going to jail, or was going to be shot. Did I struggle? Certainly, and life was still more difficult than NT; however, I am doing well (except for constant surgeries) with a house, and a job that pays well. I am in the hospital for the second time this year (since Aug 7 - the first time was more than 4 months), and I can handle it pretty well because of what I have been through.



TRIGGER WARNING:

That said, unfortunately, other adults didn't treat me as well. As I have stated before, I had spent eight years total in hospitals over my 33 years of life, and I would be restrained and isolated in ICU for months at a time without reprieve, and naturally, I developed psychosis there. I would meltdown if I knew I was going to be hospitalized, knowing that my belly was going to be cut open again, repeatedly, and I was going to be restrained for who-knows-how-long. I still have nightmares about these experiences. Where is that balance? With Aspies, there is no right answer; that said, parents can't be too permissive, and other adults can't be too stringent.

My nephews are getting some permissive parenting, and they are getting every need catered to. I have heard them say things that I would never dream of saying to other people. I wonder how they're going to do in the real world; the real world is brutal. I can't correct them too much, because my sisters (their parents) will get on me. The teen should not have been shot (obviously), but I would like to know how the mother is parenting him too. Of course, being in an unstable home environment is like death to an Aspie.



cyberdad
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09 Sep 2020, 11:22 pm

whatacrazyride wrote:
TRIGGER WARNING:

That said, unfortunately, other adults didn't treat me as well. As I have stated before, I had spent eight years total in hospitals over my 33 years of life, and I would be restrained and isolated in ICU for months at a time without reprieve, and naturally, I developed psychosis there. I would meltdown if I knew I was going to be hospitalized, knowing that my belly was going to be cut open again, repeatedly, and I was going to be restrained for who-knows-how-long. I still have nightmares about these experiences. Where is that balance? With Aspies, there is no right answer; that said, parents can't be too permissive, and other adults can't be too stringent.

My nephews are getting some permissive parenting, and they are getting every need catered to. I have heard them say things that I would never dream of saying to other people. I wonder how they're going to do in the real world; the real world is brutal. I can't correct them too much, because my sisters (their parents) will get on me. The teen should not have been shot (obviously), but I would like to know how the mother is parenting him too. Of course, being in an unstable home environment is like death to an Aspie.


Nobody who appreciates what an autistic child goes through would ever pull a trigger on a 13 year old. The problem here is whether police training gives them the capacity to discern when a situation needs deescalation but I can't really understand how a 13 yr old poses such a risk in the mind of a cop?



magz
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10 Sep 2020, 2:16 am

emotrtkey wrote:
CBT isn't always helpful because it only addresses distorted thoughts. It's possible to suffer from emotional problems as a result of negative life experiences influencing your thoughts without distorting them. If your emotions are caused by something else and a therapist keeps trying to convince you that your thinking is irrational when it isn't, you're probably going to feel worse so I agree CBT can be harmful.

So we do agree at least on this :)
Not to hijack this thread, I started another to discuss the issue of self control: viewtopic.php?t=390394


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magz
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10 Sep 2020, 2:38 am

cyberdad wrote:
Nobody who appreciates what an autistic child goes through would ever pull a trigger on a 13 year old. The problem here is whether police training gives them the capacity to discern when a situation needs deescalation but I can't really understand how a 13 yr old poses such a risk in the mind of a cop?

That may be inconvenient for a moderator to say but what comes to my mind is a phrase from the Avatar movie: "trigger-happy moron".
I'm afraid it's a systematic issue: the US police seems not to even try to keep people fitting this description out.


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10 Sep 2020, 5:03 pm

That's terrifying news. I hope the boy makes a full recovery.


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10 Sep 2020, 11:26 pm

magz wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Nobody who appreciates what an autistic child goes through would ever pull a trigger on a 13 year old. The problem here is whether police training gives them the capacity to discern when a situation needs deescalation but I can't really understand how a 13 yr old poses such a risk in the mind of a cop?

That may be inconvenient for a moderator to say but what comes to my mind is a phrase from the Avatar movie: "trigger-happy moron".
I'm afraid it's a systematic issue: the US police seems not to even try to keep people fitting this description out.


I think the first step for the police is to accept they have systemic issues of police brutality and corruption which is a wider issue that perhaps (as you allude) training can't stem. Perhaps better screening of recruits might help.



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10 Sep 2020, 11:48 pm

League_Girl wrote:
People with mental illnesses and disabilities are more likely to be shot by the cops as well.


A lot of minority groups are disproportionately targeted by police, and a lot of those groups overlap.

Neuro-divergent people, drug users, trans/enby/genderqueer people, sex workers, the homeless, people of color.... Neurodivergent drug-using trans sex workers of color describes like literally half my friend circle. More people definitely need to be talking about police violence against the homeless; that's easily like 80% of their job. Cops will shoot a deaf person in the back after they fail to respond to a verbal command. f**k the police! All cops are bastards!

P.S., miss me with that "drugs are illegal" nonsense. If you were a TSWOC in Trump's America, you wouldn't want to be sober either.



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17 Sep 2020, 4:53 am

Commission Addresses Police Shooting Of SLC Teen With Autism

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The newly-formed Racial Equity in Policing Commission discussed recent police shootings and policy reform over Zoom at its meeting Wednesday night.

The verbiage in new policies was a key point in the discussions. Earlier this month, Salt Lake police officers shot a 13-year-old boy with autism after his mother called police for help.

In new reform approved last month, officers are required — not recommended — to try de-escalation techniques before they use force. The policy specifically defines “de-escalation” and other terms like “imminent” and “necessary.”

The commission believes other improvements should be reviewed.

Commissioner Darlene McDonald is the parent of a child on the autism spectrum. “The entire situation unnerved me because I could easily put myself in that situation,” said McDonald referring to the September 5 incident. “I don’t even want to call this is a mental health crisis because it wasn’t mental health. This is a special needs young man.”

Chief Mike Brown with the Salt Lake City Police Department addressed McDonald’s concerns.
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“I want to reassure you that we have been teaching and employing de-escalation in our training ever since I became the chief,” said Brown. “We teach it. It’s an expectation and with these new policies going forward we are going to try to expand upon it.

Commissioners know very few details about the day police shot 13-year-old Linden Cameren, but that will likely change later this week when body camera video from the incident is released.

“We have a long road ahead of us. I think there is definitely room for improvement that will be very easy to pick up and take care of, such as what the Mayor has already done with her executive order,” said Nicole Salazar-Hall, one of the six core commissioners appointed by Salt Lake City Mayor Erin Mendenhall. “Then there is a larger piece of really changing the narrative of race in our society and gender equality and that is going to take a lot longer.”


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23 Sep 2020, 5:28 am

Utah police release body cam footage of officers shooting 13-year-old boy who has autism

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A 13-year-old Utah boy with autism was shot by police after his mother asked for help getting him hospital mental-health treatment and officers agreed to talk with him, police footage released Monday showed.

The videos show Salt Lake City officers chasing him down an alley after they arrive at his home, then yelling at him to get on the ground. The boy collapses after a series of shots ring out, moaning, “I don’t feel good. I don’t feel good.” He survived but suffered broken bones and pierced organs, the family's attorney has said.


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