Question if Autism can be caused by environmental factors

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FranzOren
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19 Sep 2020, 12:41 am

Can ASD be none-genetic, but be caused by environmental factors?



A asked this person with related question on Facebook and I got responds of this


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"AUTISM IS NOT ENVIRONMENTAL. IT IS GENETIC."


I though that Autism can be caused by at least three known factors and those factors are genetic mutations, deficiencies or environmental factors.



Barbibul
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19 Sep 2020, 2:23 am

There are rare cases of pseudo-autism, pseudo-autism is caused by environmental factors.

Autism is truly genetic and only genetic even if environmental factors may modulate autism.



FranzOren
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19 Sep 2020, 2:41 am

Thank you



madbutnotmad
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19 Sep 2020, 11:37 am

What causes Autism Spectrum Disorder is still yet to be discovered.

The present medical findings does suggest that Autism Spectrum Disorder is a genetically inherited condition.
Being a genetically inherited condition does not explain however the cause.

The cause is still yet to be ascertained.

Being a neurological developmental disorder, the condition develops as the neurological networks in the brain develops, I guess as a human fetus.

The reason why the neurological networks in the brain develop different to normal is presently undetermined, although there are some possible events that may cause the neurological networks in the brain to develop abnormally, such as brain damage caused by accidents, brain damage caused by abnormal blood flow caused by abnormal placenta, brain damage caused by birth asphyxia (oxygen starvation) etc.

*Speculation*
If genetic, certain gene's may be the underlining cause of the condition, for example, if ASD is caused by an abnormal placenta and abnormal placenta's are an inherited condition caused by genetics, then ASD may be avoided if scientists can work out a way to prevent the abnormal placenta from developing. Please note, the suggestion that abnormal placenta's being the cause of ASD is not medical fact but a speculation here, and I have used the speculation to explain how conditions can be handed down in the gene's.



Jiheisho
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19 Sep 2020, 11:54 am

As posted above, genetics only accounts for some of the autistic cases found. So genetics does not explain everything. Environmental factors would be the other source for autism.



Nades
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19 Sep 2020, 12:08 pm

It's hard to tell. If it was genetic then I imagine they would have found exactly what genes cause it. As of yet nothing has really been found but there does appear to be something hereditary about it. It might just be a lot of genes tenuously linked to it but still nothing concrete after all these years. I think it's a mix of both.

Secondly autism is just a list of psychological symptoms and nothing to do with physical and genetic traits. In theory you could make someone autistic or turn someone into an NT depending on how they're treated. It's one of those things that I dare not tread much further with for fear of flame.



madbutnotmad
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19 Sep 2020, 12:15 pm

hello.
No, Autism Spectrum Disorder is a neurological developmental disorder not a psychological disorder.

You can not make a NT become ASD by training or vice versa.

There is significant evidence that explains how different the neurological networks are in the ASD sufferers brains.
This evidence has been produced by specialist neural scientists using fMRI scanners.

ASD is definitely a real quantifiable neurological condition rather than a psychological disorder.



Jiheisho
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19 Sep 2020, 12:19 pm

Nades wrote:
In theory you could make someone autistic or turn someone into an NT depending on how they're treated. It's one of those things that I dare not tread much further with for fear of flame.


My understanding is that the autistic symptoms can be treated to the point that autism is not a disability, but the autism is not eradicated. Tony Attwood discusses reevaluating patients to remove clinical autism diagnoses, but clearly states the autism is still present, but it is not a burden which would require support. Do you have any studies showing a total "cure" for autism?

Yes, a touchy topic, but important.



Nades
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19 Sep 2020, 12:25 pm

Jiheisho wrote:
Nades wrote:
In theory you could make someone autistic or turn someone into an NT depending on how they're treated. It's one of those things that I dare not tread much further with for fear of flame.


My understanding is that the autistic symptoms can be treated to the point that autism is not a disability, but the autism is not eradicated. Tony Attwood discusses reevaluating patients to remove clinical autism diagnoses, but clearly states the autism is still present, but it is not a burden which would require support. Do you have any studies showing a total "cure" for autism?

Yes, a touchy topic, but important.


Yes. Without a concrete genetic link to it all autism will ever be is a list of symptoms with no trunk for the branches to hang on. It's a very unusual disorder in that sense and in this day and age I would have hoped by now they would have found some gene that all aspies share in common but nothing yet. It tells me that either genetics are not as big a factor as is originally thought or it really is a spectacularly strange disorder where hundreds of genes are just messing up and no two aspies have messed up in the same way.



Jiheisho
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19 Sep 2020, 12:35 pm

Nades wrote:
Jiheisho wrote:
Nades wrote:
In theory you could make someone autistic or turn someone into an NT depending on how they're treated. It's one of those things that I dare not tread much further with for fear of flame.


My understanding is that the autistic symptoms can be treated to the point that autism is not a disability, but the autism is not eradicated. Tony Attwood discusses reevaluating patients to remove clinical autism diagnoses, but clearly states the autism is still present, but it is not a burden which would require support. Do you have any studies showing a total "cure" for autism?

Yes, a touchy topic, but important.


Yes. Without a concrete genetic link to it all autism will ever be is a list of symptoms with no trunk for the branches to hang on. It's a very unusual disorder in that sense and in this day and age I would have hoped by now they would have found some gene that all aspies share in common but nothing yet. It tells me that either genetics are not as big a factor as is originally thought or it really is a spectacularly strange disorder where hundreds of genes are just messing up and no two aspies have messed up in the same way.


But environmental factors lead to biological/neurological changes. Autism is not like a poisoning where the poison can be eradicated from the body and the body recover. The environmental factors causes a physical change in the brain development--brains can't redevelop and so the damage is there.

You are absolutely right about ASD being diagnosed using symptoms rather than causes. To me, this suggests that ASD is a collection of conditions that have similar presentations. Science simply can't distinguish between them. But I doubt that we can also conclude it just does not exist.



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19 Sep 2020, 12:41 pm

My opinion is that it's half genetic and half environmental. Environment can reinforce autistic behavior. Of course, if your environment involves parents who are on the spectrum, genetics influence environment. On the other hand, there are NT people who were raised in an on-the-spectrum environment and encouraged by the same on-the-spectrum relatives to rise above it. Overall, it's hard to say.


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19 Sep 2020, 2:04 pm

I believe what you guys are trying to explain is that you believe that psychological conditioning created by being brought up by a person with autism spectrum disorder can lead to a person learning to behave like a person with autism spectrum disorder while not actually suffering from autism spectrum disorder.

In such cases, such a person would actually not suffer from autism spectrum disorder but instead would simply emulate a person who suffers from autism spectrum disorder in some mannerisms / behaviour traits.

Emulating a condition due to psychological conditioning is not the same as having a neurological condition.

For example, a child of someone who is blind who is not blind, who has learnt to read braille does not suddenly become blind after they have learnt the reading braille behaviour that is common among those who are blind.

Emulating a blind person reading braille does not suddenly make the non blind person blind.

To suggest that it would, would be absolutely ridiculous, as is the suggestion that a child growing up with a person with autism spectrum disorder can suddenly suffer from autism spectrum disorder due to upbringing.

A person is either born or develops Autism Spectrum Disorder through abnormal brain development during the early years of a person's life. You can not catch it like a cold, you can not learn to have it. You either have it or you do not.

I helped bring up my niece, who is now 16 years old, and although she may share some of the values that i and my parents hold, she does not suffer from autism spectrum disorder, she has not been psychologically conditioned by her exposure to me as a child.

learnt traits and mannerisms, language is not the same as abnormal neurological networks, which are present in the neurological developmental disorder called autism spectrum disorder.

You may be able to "act" like someone who has autism spectrum disorder, by copying behaviour, perhaps even to the extent that you may fool a clinical psychologist during the diagnostic process, you may even be able to get others to collaborate fabricated history that supports your case, doing so still would not make you have the condition, even if you were to get formally diagnosed.

The condition is not a learnt condition but a real physical phenomena that can be proven with a fMRI scanner.



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19 Sep 2020, 2:19 pm

madbutnotmad wrote:
I believe what you guys are trying to explain is that you believe that psychological conditioning created by being brought up by a person with autism spectrum disorder can lead to a person learning to behave like a person with autism spectrum disorder while not actually suffering from autism spectrum disorder.


I'm not. ASD is a cognitive problem, but not a personality disorder or an intellectual disorder, although things can be co-morbid. You can't grow out of your autism nor train yourself out of it. What distinguishes autism from NT cognitive psychology is the difference in social interaction. It is a lifelong condition.

But ASD is a clinical diagnosis that specifies the need for support. If you learn to function and need no support, you will still have ASD, but the clinical diagnosis might not be needed.



FranzOren
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19 Sep 2020, 3:37 pm

Jiheisho wrote:
madbutnotmad wrote:
I believe what you guys are trying to explain is that you believe that psychological conditioning created by being brought up by a person with autism spectrum disorder can lead to a person learning to behave like a person with autism spectrum disorder while not actually suffering from autism spectrum disorder.


I'm not. ASD is a cognitive problem, but not a personality disorder or an intellectual disorder, although things can be co-morbid. You can't grow out of your autism nor train yourself out of it. What distinguishes autism from NT cognitive psychology is the difference in social interaction. It is a lifelong condition.

But ASD is a clinical diagnosis that specifies the need for support. If you learn to function and need no support, you will still have ASD, but the clinical diagnosis might not be needed.







I am starting to think that criteria for ASD is way too broad.

I think that it is too broad and I am afraid the spectrum is more than just a full-blown disorder, it can also include anyone who are undiagnosed that have traits of ASD.

In reality, being neurotypical means that you are not never diagnosed and never diagnosed until you get diagnosed one way or another.

I think we really should stop calling anyone NT, just because they don’t have diagnosis of ASD or any mental health and developmental disorders for that matter, because we may never know if they have the same or similar issues as us, but were not diagnosed at the time, or they suffered like us, but they were never diagnosed for the rest of their lives

There are also reports or stories that some lose their ASD diagnosis as they get older, just because they got improved, even though some forget that ASD is a developmental disorder ( especially milder forms of ASD ) and a developmental disorder is something you have for the rest of your life.


Even my brother's friend said he was diagnosed with Autism, but he thinks it is stupid, because from his perspective, it never caused him any distress in daily life, but his doctors thought otherwise.

Developmental disorders comprise a group of psychiatric conditions originating in childhood that involve serious impairment in different areas. There are several ways of using this term.

[1]

The most narrow concept is used in the category "Specific Disorders of Psychological Development" in the ICD-10.

[1]

These disorders comprise developmental language disorder, learning disorders, motor disorders, and autism spectrum disorders.

[2]

In broader definitions ADHD is included, and the term used is neurodevelopmental disorders.

[1]

Yet others include antisocial behavior and schizophrenia that begins in childhood and continues through life.

[1]

However, these two latter conditions are not as stable as the other developmental disorders, and there is not the same evidence of a shared genetic liability.

[1]

Developmental disorders are present from early life. Most improve as the child grows older, but some entail impairments that continue throughout life. There is a strong genetic component; more males are afflicted than females.

[1]

This is just an example, but it’s not accurate.

Females should get the same treatments and therapies just like men get.

Should we change the criteria for Autism Spectrum disorder? In order to have diagnosis of ASD you need to have traits of part of ASD for four months, after 12 months of age and if traits are gone after more four months you are developmentally delayed.

In order to qualify for diagnosis of Pervasive Developmental Disorder, symptoms must be present for four months right before the age of one.

Autism can be diagnosed at age through 0-3 years of age, but moderate to milder form of Autism can be diagnosed at the age of 4+

According to Wikipedia a chronic condition is a health condition or disease that is persistent or otherwise long-lasting in its effects or a disease that comes with time. The term chronic is often applied when the course of the disease lasts for more than three months.

Even if symptoms of Autism is gone, you are still considered to have history of developmental delay, because the traits of ASD lasted for more than three months

Symptoms of ASD for four months before the age of one:

1. Not respond to their name by 12 months of age
2. Not point at objects to show interest (point at an airplane flying over) by 14 months
3. Not play “pretend” games (pretend to “feed” a doll) by 18 months
4. Avoid eye contact and want to be alone
5. Have trouble understanding other people’s feelings or talking about their own feelings
6. Have delayed speech and language skills
7. Repeat words or phrases over and over (echolalia)
8. Give unrelated answers to questions
9. Get upset by minor changes
10. Have obsessive interests
11. Flap their hands, rock their body, or spin in circles
12. Have unusual reactions to the way things sound, smell, taste, look, or feel
13. Does not respond to name by 12 months of age
14. Avoids eye-contact
15. Prefers to play alone
16. Does not share interests with others
17. Only interacts to achieve a desired goal
18. Has flat or inappropriate facial expressions
19. Does not understand personal space boundaries
20. Avoids or resists physical contact
21. Is not comforted by others during distress
22. Delayed speech and language skills
23. Repeats words or phrases over and over (echolalia)
24. Reverses pronouns (e.g., says “you” instead of “I”)
25. Gives unrelated answers to questions
26. Does not point or respond to pointing
27. Uses few or no gestures (e.g., does not wave goodbye)
28. Talks in a flat, robot-like, or sing-song voice
29. Does not pretend in play (e.g., does not pretend to “feed” a doll)
30. Does not understand jokes, sarcasm, or teasing
31. Lines up toys or other objects
32. Plays with toys the same way every time
33. Likes parts of objects (e.g., wheels)
34. Is very organized
35. Gets upset by minor changes
36. Has obsessive interests
37. Has to follow certain routines
38. Flaps hands, rocks body, or spins self in circles
39. Hyperactivity (very active)
40. Impulsivity (acting without thinking)
41. Short attention span
42. Aggression
43. Causing self injury
44. Temper tantrums
45. Unusual eating and sleeping habits
46. Unusual mood or emotional reactions
47. Lack of fear or more fear than expected
48. Unusual reactions to the way things sound, smell, taste, look, or feel

It’s to make it even more broad and most with Broad Autism Phenotype should have some form of ASD diagnosis, because Autism is a spectrum developmental disorder from very severe to very mild.

The reason why I said this, is because the term broad autism phenotype describes an even wider range of individuals who exhibit problems with personality, language, and social-behavioral characteristics at a level that is considered to be higher than average but lower than is diagnosable with autism.

Even if you slightly had some problems with personality, language, and social-behavioral characteristics from early to late childhood, early to late adolescence and adulthood, I would still consider you to have history of developmental delay, regardless if it is diagnosed or not and also, because the DSM changed all subgroups of Autisms into a spectrum disorder, from very severe to very mild.



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19 Sep 2020, 4:06 pm

The enviroment can cause the autistic person issues where by their autism will be noticeable through how the enviroment they are in effects them, but the enviroment is not the cause of autism as the autistic person already has an autistic character before they are in the unfavourable enviroment.
Put the autistic person in an enviroment which favours them and the allistic person could potentially be the one having problems as the ideal enviroment can vary from person to person.
The enviroment does not cause a person to be autistic as if this was so, an enviroment can also cause someone to be allistic, which also does not make sense, if that makes sense?


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