Autistic people have super powers? Are super heroes autistic

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wittgenstein
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29 Sep 2020, 3:39 pm

Fnord, I DO NOT HATE YOU! But please keep posting. This is getting fun! I love a hot debate!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtckVng_1a0
Is being logical without emotion an aspie trait? I love this scene. "It's business not personal." My business is an intense debate. There is nothing personal in my posts!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qvpcfYFHcw


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Fnord
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29 Sep 2020, 3:41 pm

wittgenstein wrote:
Fnord wrote, " It is not my job to do your term project, either. Do you want to prove your assertions, or do you just want to be believed?"
OK, so I am on Wrong Planet to steal your ideas?
Fnord wrote," Back-handed 'compliments' will get you nowhere."
OK you felt insulted. I apologize.
Dude, would you at least learn how to properly quote someone, please?


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wittgenstein
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29 Sep 2020, 3:47 pm

Fnord wrote:
wittgenstein wrote:
Fnord wrote, " It is not my job to do your term project, either. Do you want to prove your assertions, or do you just want to be believed?"
OK, so I am on Wrong Planet to steal your ideas?
Fnord wrote," Back-handed 'compliments' will get you nowhere."
OK you felt insulted. I apologize.
Dude, would you at least learn how to properly quote someone, please?

OK, so you did not post what I quoted. And yes, I confess, I want to be believed. Do you? then post links and evidence like I did.
Anyway this is getting too emotional for me. I prefer an intellectual debate.


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YES! This is me!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gtdlR4rUcY
I went up over 50 feet!
I love debate!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtckVng_1a0
My debate style is calm and deadly!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-230v_ecAcM


wittgenstein
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29 Sep 2020, 3:49 pm

How did Wrong Planet quote your post? Are you implying that I have super computer skills?


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YES! This is me!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gtdlR4rUcY
I went up over 50 feet!
I love debate!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtckVng_1a0
My debate style is calm and deadly!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-230v_ecAcM


wittgenstein
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29 Sep 2020, 4:07 pm

Fnord wrote, "or do you just want to be believed?
"Just" is an interesting word. Do I want to be believed? YES!! ! Do I want to be believed just because of what I say? NO! I want you to consider my links and syllogisms. PROVIDE YOURS!


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YES! This is me!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gtdlR4rUcY
I went up over 50 feet!
I love debate!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtckVng_1a0
My debate style is calm and deadly!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-230v_ecAcM


carlos55
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29 Sep 2020, 6:07 pm

wittgenstein wrote:
carlos55 wrote:
wittgenstein wrote:
Fnord wrote:
carlos55 wrote:
... Your list has many undiagnosed people on it including Vladimir Putin who rose to be a KGB chief and president of Russia (who knows what he had to do and deal with for that one) and one as old as the hills Bill Gates.  Most are also historical figures who lived before our time and autistic traits can easily be misdiagnosed even today, they even claimed Donald Trump’s son is autistic when he’s not.  There’s all sorts of things that can be misdiagnosed as ASD trauma, abuse, historical context, depression and brutalization to name a few.  Most aspies who are diagnosed late suffer some type of breakdown or mental health crisis usually in the teens.  The absence of such in an adults life is a big clue that the person doesn’t have ASD, or the symptoms are so mild they barely are worth claiming.  There is a danger of unrealistic expectations by claiming we have special powers...
What seems to be in operation is the process of reaching a conclusion first, and then gathering 'evidence' to support that conclusion.  This is much like declaring a defendant 'guilty' and then gathering evidence to convict them.

Actually, science proposes an idea and then seeks to prove it. Just one example, https://eclipse2017.nasa.gov/testing-ge ... ears%20ago. If is false that science has no ideas until proven.


Basically, you have a theory you like and are pushing the evidence in favour of it while ignoring the evidence against it.

Conspiracy theorists do this, someone can give a one-sided explanation of the UFO phenomenon, ignoring other explanations and someone might think an alien invasion is imminent. There`s a tv show called ancient aliens that actually does this, its entertaining but it’s extremely biased after a few shows you realise it’s a lot of nonsense.

There`s lots of explanations for unusual behaviour over the centuries.

The past was a brutal place, many were traumatised, sexual abuse was common and ignored, people witnessed death of loved one’s death on a frequent basis, some of your siblings were expected to die in childhood. Diet was poor most people had vitamin deficiencies, water could be contaminated so only alcohol like beer & wine were trusted drinks a lot of the time so most people were in various states of intoxication much of the time, inc pregnant women (wonder what the long-term brain effects of that was).

There was no tv, fashion or print media, so no template of how a normal person behaves like today where there’s kind of a social norm that people follow.

OK put forth links that disprove me. I am waiting. I was very scientific . I put forth an idea and evidence. Its your responsibility to refute it. I even said that I recognize the objection that historical diagnoses are suspect. Just like Einstein believed in his theory ( I AM NOT SAYING THAT I AM AS SMART AS EINSTEIN!) and awaited for someone to disprove it.


There is a reason why we have innocent until proven guilty.

It’s almost impossible to prove a negative most of the time. Can you prove you didn’t break the speed limit when you last drove your car?

The burden of proof is to prove the positive or that something is true.

In this case I do have evidence that everyone can see it’s called everyday reality backed up by figures.

You say 1 in 250 humans born or aspies will “rock the world”.

Ok where are they then?

Let’s take the population of the US so that’s 350 mill / 250 thats 1.4 million people who should be running the country.

When you switch on your tv do you see any diagnosed aspies?, are there any aspies in gov running companies? In the media etc...

Do they constantly talk about autism on tv? Is it the main subject matter you hear about in the media? All these influential people suffering from it and no one talking about it?

The best you can offer is a crude short list stretching 500 years of a dozen people most undiagnosed.

Those Undiagnosed alive like Bill Gates and Putin there’s heavy evidence that they don’t have ASD like their good communication skills, relaxed in the spotlight lack of mental health crisis known about not to mention evidence of good relationship forming.

A few washed up old Hollywood stars that most people have forgotten about.

1.4 million so called super humans and that’s the best that you can do? :D

Knowledge of ASD is high now in the medical community, most people in the west these days are diagnosed by their teens so it’s been 26 years since people were starting to be diagnosed so if you were 19 in1994 you would be 46 now.

So I repeat where are these aspies that rock who are now middle age? Are you telling me they all made it to middle age without a single breakdown or mental health crisis? None visited a psychiatrist to be diagnosed?

Your maths doesn’t fit with the reality we see all around in our world today.


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Fnord
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29 Sep 2020, 9:13 pm

"Russell's Teapot" is an analogy, formulated by the philosopher Bertrand Russell, to illustrate that the philosophic burden of proof lies upon a person making unfalsifiable claims, rather than shifting the burden of disproof to others.

Russell specifically applied his analogy in the context of religion.  He wrote that if he were to assert, without offering proof, that a teapot, too small to be seen by telescopes, orbits the Sun somewhere in space between the Earth and Mars, he could not expect anyone to believe him solely because his assertion could not be proven wrong.

Thus, the argument "You cannot prove me wrong, so I must be right" is a logical fallacy that even high-school debate teams are trained to recognize -- any real debater would not use it as an argument, and any lawyers who tried to use it in court would likely have their cases dismissed.

The OP is respectfully requested to provide valid, empirical evidence (e.g., completely lacking in assumptions and unverifiable data) to prove his assertions, or admit that his assertions are themselves invalid.


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naturalplastic
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29 Sep 2020, 10:50 pm

wittgenstein wrote:
1/250 of 100 is 4/5.


Its supposed to 1/100, or 1/80, or 1/60. Its getting more common as they get better at diagnosing it in the population.

So your list of the top 100 famous people should have one, or two, whole human persons of the autistic persuasion. :lol:



wittgenstein
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30 Sep 2020, 5:26 am

and it has 8.


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YES! This is me!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gtdlR4rUcY
I went up over 50 feet!
I love debate!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtckVng_1a0
My debate style is calm and deadly!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-230v_ecAcM


wittgenstein
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30 Sep 2020, 5:29 am

Sure I will take your numbers. Therefore it is 8 or 4 times more likely to be a famous person if you are an aspie.


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YES! This is me!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gtdlR4rUcY
I went up over 50 feet!
I love debate!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtckVng_1a0
My debate style is calm and deadly!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-230v_ecAcM


AspiePrincess611
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30 Sep 2020, 7:35 am

wittgenstein wrote:
""I might be crazy but I ain't dumb"
Cooter, The Dukes of Hazzard
A guy was driving and his car broke down near an insane asylum. He went up to the fence and asked a guy, " I am lost. How do I get to the freeway?" The guy replied," drive 3 more miles, take a left when you see the green house take a right." The lost driver said, " This is an insane asylum. Why do you know perfectly the directions?" The "insane" person replied, " I'm not stupid. I'm nuts!"

Yep, there's definitely a difference between crazy and stupid :lol:


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AspiePrincess611
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30 Sep 2020, 7:57 am

I was amazing as a student in High School and college (I got very good marks. I'm not bragging just stating a fact. I'm the first to admit I have many flaws). I got a full scholarship to college based on my grades alone. Except for math courses, in those my grades were average. And I had to struggle to be average in those classes. I have had several "mental breakdowns", and my personal and family life have always been a mess. I've had a rough time keeping jobs. For me, success in school did not translate well to the workplace. I didn't get my ASD diagnosis until a couple of years ago, when I was in my early 30's. I had suspected I was on the spectrum for years though. I don't believe people with autism have "super powers". We may excel at one or two things, that occasionally come in handy, but we have a much harder time with most aspects of life than NTs do. Sometimes, a person with ASD manages to become very successful in life. But this is the exception, not the rule. And typically that person still has problems with their personal life.


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30 Sep 2020, 8:15 am

I had to work 3 part-time jobs to put myself through six years of Engineering school (MSEE), and managed to pay off all my student loans soon after graduation.  Except for about a year and a half in the late 1980s, I've been gainfully employed ever since.

Super-power?  No, just the determination to make something of myself and leave my detractors in the dust.


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carlos55
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30 Sep 2020, 9:01 am

wittgenstein wrote:
Sure I will take your numbers. Therefore it is 8 or 4 times more likely to be a famous person if you are an aspie.


Your theory still doesn’t work 1 in 100 makes it more unbelievable that would be 350mil / 100 = 3.5 million aspies where many would be famous and be well known to the public.

Not happening, where are they?

I’m not seeing huge numbers of famous aspies leading society. In fact hardly any, I think we have an unemployment rate of around 90%!

What’s the likelihood of all these famous well known people remaining undiagnosed by middle age?

Aspergers has been recognized for 26 years inc being incorporated into Autism.

Your trying to say all these people with a developmental disability got to their 40’s, got through school, puberty left home managed their affairs perfectly never had any mental health issues that were brought to the attention of psychiatric services.

The odds are very unlikely.

I would very much wish it were true but sadly reality says differently.


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30 Sep 2020, 9:05 am

carlos55 wrote:
wittgenstein wrote:
Sure I will take your numbers. Therefore it is 8 or 4 times more likely to be a famous person if you are an aspie.
Your theory still doesn’t work ... I would very much wish it were true but sadly reality says differently.
His data are flawed and his reasoning is fallacious -- both of which put his conclusions in conflict with reality.


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AspiePrincess611
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30 Sep 2020, 10:08 am

Fnord wrote:
I had to work 3 part-time jobs to put myself through six years of Engineering school (MSEE), and managed to pay off all my student loans soon after graduation.  Except for about a year and a half in the late 1980s, I've been gainfully employed ever since.

Super-power?  No, just the determination to make something of myself and leave my detractors in the dust.

Good for you! Hard work and determination can go a long way. It's just a matter of finding your niche. I am a firm believer that most people with ASD can do some type of work. It might just take a lot of us longer to find our niche than it does NTs. And it takes understanding and patience on the part of the employer. I myself have worked so many places since I turned 18 that I have trouble remembering all of the places I've worked. It's got to be at least 15. Since graduating college, I've been "laid off" six times. The employer usually uses the excuse that they are low on work or funding, or their contract ran out. I've only actually enjoyed a couple of these jobs. Most were horribly boring to me, or confusing, or just not a good fit. I especially had problems working in retail because of my limited patience and anger issues. I attempted to go back to college to get certification to be a science teacher, but although I aced all the classes that graded based on writing papers or taking exams, the teaching internship was a miserable failure. I tried as hard as I could, but my poor social skills, memory, and sensory processing issues made it impossible. I've been working in an administrative/clerical job for the past 6 weeks or so. So far, I really like it, and hope it lasts. It's pretty routine work, which is perfect for me. I do get a little anxious/overwhelmed/irritated when co-workers start throwing too much work or information at me at once. But I think I can handle it if I just do things in order of importance and write things down. Hopefully this is my "niche". Sorry if I went a little off-topic, too :P


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