Who do you think will win the 2020 election?

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The_Walrus
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07 Oct 2020, 2:04 am

How many moderate Republicans back:

- a public healthcare option
- two years of free college
- ending cash bail
- a $15 federal minimum wage
- paid family leave
- increased corporation tax
- repealing “Right to Work” laws
- banning private prisons and schools

Some of those are good ideas, some of them are bad ideas - all of them are leftist ideas, and all of them are changes which alter the status quo. No Republican would support those ideas, and even moderate Democrats would object to most of them. Biden would be the most leftist President in US history.

Biden brands himself as a moderate, and is able to do so because he ran against multiple communists, but really he’s a social democrat. He’s fooled both leftists and moderates.

Compared to Hillary Clinton he’s a disappointing candidate for liberals, but should be a strong one for leftists



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07 Oct 2020, 2:36 am

The_Walrus wrote:
How many moderate Republicans back:

- a public healthcare option
- two years of free college
- ending cash bail
- a $15 federal minimum wage
- paid family leave
- increased corporation tax
- repealing “Right to Work” laws
- banning private prisons and schools

Some of those are good ideas, some of them are bad ideas - all of them are leftist ideas, and all of them are changes which alter the status quo. No Republican would support those ideas, and even moderate Democrats would object to most of them. Biden would be the most leftist President in US history.

Biden brands himself as a moderate, and is able to do so because he ran against multiple communists, but really he’s a social democrat. He’s fooled both leftists and moderates.

Compared to Hillary Clinton he’s a disappointing candidate for liberals, but should be a strong one for leftists


all these things are barely left of right. he's not a social democrat at all.



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07 Oct 2020, 3:49 am

seaweed wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
How many moderate Republicans back:

- a public healthcare option
- two years of free college
- ending cash bail
- a $15 federal minimum wage
- paid family leave
- increased corporation tax
- repealing “Right to Work” laws
- banning private prisons and schools

Some of those are good ideas, some of them are bad ideas - all of them are leftist ideas, and all of them are changes which alter the status quo. No Republican would support those ideas, and even moderate Democrats would object to most of them. Biden would be the most leftist President in US history.

Biden brands himself as a moderate, and is able to do so because he ran against multiple communists, but really he’s a social democrat. He’s fooled both leftists and moderates.

Compared to Hillary Clinton he’s a disappointing candidate for liberals, but should be a strong one for leftists

all these things are barely left of right. he's not a social democrat at all.

"Right To Work" laws are mandatory not only in the entire EU, but among the 47 member states of the Council of Europe. This was actually due to a Danish case as the European Court of Human Rights in 2006.


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Nades
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07 Oct 2020, 9:02 am

seaweed wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
How many moderate Republicans back:

- a public healthcare option
- two years of free college
- ending cash bail
- a $15 federal minimum wage
- paid family leave
- increased corporation tax
- repealing “Right to Work” laws
- banning private prisons and schools

Some of those are good ideas, some of them are bad ideas - all of them are leftist ideas, and all of them are changes which alter the status quo. No Republican would support those ideas, and even moderate Democrats would object to most of them. Biden would be the most leftist President in US history.

Biden brands himself as a moderate, and is able to do so because he ran against multiple communists, but really he’s a social democrat. He’s fooled both leftists and moderates.

Compared to Hillary Clinton he’s a disappointing candidate for liberals, but should be a strong one for leftists


all these things are barely left of right. he's not a social democrat at all.


Free health care, significant increase in minimum wage, free two years of college, banning of private prisons, increased corp tax, paid family leave. That all sounds like very substantial socioeconomic changes and they're only barely left wing? It's actually worrying if that's the case. Just how much further left can it go?

I have no issues with any of those points, Im just perplexed at how free health care for example is just "barely" left wing.



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07 Oct 2020, 9:37 am

Nades wrote:
seaweed wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
How many moderate Republicans back:

- a public healthcare option
- two years of free college
- ending cash bail
- a $15 federal minimum wage
- paid family leave
- increased corporation tax
- repealing “Right to Work” laws
- banning private prisons and schools

Some of those are good ideas, some of them are bad ideas - all of them are leftist ideas, and all of them are changes which alter the status quo. No Republican would support those ideas, and even moderate Democrats would object to most of them. Biden would be the most leftist President in US history.

Biden brands himself as a moderate, and is able to do so because he ran against multiple communists, but really he’s a social democrat. He’s fooled both leftists and moderates.

Compared to Hillary Clinton he’s a disappointing candidate for liberals, but should be a strong one for leftists


all these things are barely left of right. he's not a social democrat at all.


Free health care, significant increase in minimum wage, free two years of college, banning of private prisons, increased corp tax, paid family leave. That all sounds like very substantial socioeconomic changes and they're only barely left wing? It's actually worrying if that's the case. Just how much further left can it go?

I have no issues with any of those points, Im just perplexed at how free health care for example is just "barely" left wing.


It depends on where the person suggesting these items are "barely left wing" decides the "centre" lies...The further left it is placed by them, the less extreme the issues would appear, and the more they would lack the capacity to understand the "right", as they would consider those on the "right" as being "alt-right", or far-right (or "right wing extremists"), whilst what others would see as the centre, to them, would be the "right".


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07 Oct 2020, 10:02 am

The_Walrus wrote:
How many moderate Republicans back:

- a public healthcare option
- two years of free college
- ending cash bail
- a $15 federal minimum wage
- paid family leave
- increased corporation tax
- repealing “Right to Work” laws
- banning private prisons and schools

I expect him to accomplish nothing on this list.


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07 Oct 2020, 11:39 am

KT67 wrote:
Trump

Trump voters worship Trump
The left doesn't worship Biden


The center and left doesn't need to worship Biden (or even like him), they just need to turn out and vote for the guy who can beat Dementia Donnie. Trump supporters can worship their messiah all they like, if their cult isn't big enough Dear Leader will lose.


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The_Walrus
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07 Oct 2020, 2:58 pm

Nades wrote:
seaweed wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
How many moderate Republicans back:

- a public healthcare option
- two years of free college
- ending cash bail
- a $15 federal minimum wage
- paid family leave
- increased corporation tax
- repealing “Right to Work” laws
- banning private prisons and schools

Some of those are good ideas, some of them are bad ideas - all of them are leftist ideas, and all of them are changes which alter the status quo. No Republican would support those ideas, and even moderate Democrats would object to most of them. Biden would be the most leftist President in US history.

Biden brands himself as a moderate, and is able to do so because he ran against multiple communists, but really he’s a social democrat. He’s fooled both leftists and moderates.

Compared to Hillary Clinton he’s a disappointing candidate for liberals, but should be a strong one for leftists


all these things are barely left of right. he's not a social democrat at all.


Free health care, significant increase in minimum wage, free two years of college, banning of private prisons, increased corp tax, paid family leave. That all sounds like very substantial socioeconomic changes and they're only barely left wing? It's actually worrying if that's the case. Just how much further left can it go?

I have no issues with any of those points, Im just perplexed at how free health care for example is just "barely" left wing.

A public option is not “free healthcare”, which presumably is Seaweed’s objection.

There is clear daylight between Joe Biden and Bernie Sanders and I don’t see any value in pretending otherwise. Sanders is an extremist, Biden is a pragmatist. But likewise, there is clear daylight between Biden and Obama or the Clintons, with Biden being noticeably more left wing. I think he can get away without alienating moderate voters due to a combination of the total unacceptability of Trump, people’s political illiteracy, and most obviously, the fact that he’s a white man.

While translating politicians from one context to another is always difficult, all of those policies except healthcare (where the UK has its own peculiar hang-ups) would put Biden on the left of the UK Labour Party.



Nades
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07 Oct 2020, 3:09 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
Nades wrote:
seaweed wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
How many moderate Republicans back:

- a public healthcare option
- two years of free college
- ending cash bail
- a $15 federal minimum wage
- paid family leave
- increased corporation tax
- repealing “Right to Work” laws
- banning private prisons and schools

Some of those are good ideas, some of them are bad ideas - all of them are leftist ideas, and all of them are changes which alter the status quo. No Republican would support those ideas, and even moderate Democrats would object to most of them. Biden would be the most leftist President in US history.

Biden brands himself as a moderate, and is able to do so because he ran against multiple communists, but really he’s a social democrat. He’s fooled both leftists and moderates.

Compared to Hillary Clinton he’s a disappointing candidate for liberals, but should be a strong one for leftists


all these things are barely left of right. he's not a social democrat at all.


Free health care, significant increase in minimum wage, free two years of college, banning of private prisons, increased corp tax, paid family leave. That all sounds like very substantial socioeconomic changes and they're only barely left wing? It's actually worrying if that's the case. Just how much further left can it go?

I have no issues with any of those points, Im just perplexed at how free health care for example is just "barely" left wing.

A public option is not “free healthcare”, which presumably is Seaweed’s objection.

There is clear daylight between Joe Biden and Bernie Sanders and I don’t see any value in pretending otherwise. Sanders is an extremist, Biden is a pragmatist. But likewise, there is clear daylight between Biden and Obama or the Clintons, with Biden being noticeably more left wing. I think he can get away without alienating moderate voters due to a combination of the total unacceptability of Trump, people’s political illiteracy, and most obviously, the fact that he’s a white man.

While translating politicians from one context to another is always difficult, all of those policies except healthcare (where the UK has its own peculiar hang-ups) would put Biden on the left of the UK Labour Party.


The labour party to me is also to far left for my liking. Under Corbyn it was extreme and drove voters away in areas he should have had a certain win. There is always a happy middle ground. I think a comparison to them certainly helps people in the UK make comparisons to use politics.



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07 Oct 2020, 3:18 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
KT67 wrote:
Trump

Trump voters worship Trump
The left doesn't worship Biden


The center and left doesn't need to worship Biden (or even like him), they just need to turn out and vote for the guy who can beat Dementia Donnie. Trump supporters can worship their messiah all they like, if their cult isn't big enough Dear Leader will lose.



Yeah I don't really care for Biden and people can criticize him all they want and I don't think there is some conspiracy behind it like how SOME Trump supporters think we are part of some sort of conspiracy when we criticize their god.


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07 Oct 2020, 4:53 pm

A Once, Upon a Date, so-called 'Trump Friendly' Rasmussen Poll
Now Gives Trump A Declining 12 Points Behind; Surely, Following
Trump Is Going Down For Real Now; And of course, Yes, at First
Basically, He Had to 'Shoot Himself in the Covid-19 Foot on 5th Avenue'
By Additionally Staying Ignorantly Unmasked And Leading His
Closest Most Immediate
Crew into Not Only
Certain Defeat but
Almost Guarantees
of Getting A Potential
Life Threatening Covid-19
Pandemic Disease; as Ya Will Fool
Some of the Folks All the Time; But
Ya Will Not Do it to Most of the Folks Who
Have Enough Intelligence to See that Gilligan
off Gilligan's Island Will Surely Do A Better
Job of Dictator, With Just a Promise of 'This
That and the Other Thing', Without a Reality
of Getting Himself
Deathly Ill and
Spreading
The Disease
Even to His Closest
Associates and Aids
Who Butter His Bread
of Even Surviving in Politics each and every Day...
It's Really Not Like it wasn't Predictable as

Not Everyone

Drinks
Orange
Kool Aid...

And There Are So-called
'Christians' in my Area Who
Believe He is Still a Gift From 'God' (TM) to Save 'em...
Better to Know A 'DEvil', Ya Create; than the one Ya'll Never meet...



https://www.vox.com/2020/10/7/21506391/ ... -landslide


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07 Oct 2020, 6:03 pm

TheRobotLives wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
How many moderate Republicans back:

- a public healthcare option
- two years of free college
- ending cash bail
- a $15 federal minimum wage
- paid family leave
- increased corporation tax
- repealing “Right to Work” laws
- banning private prisons and schools

I expect him to accomplish nothing on this list.


Anybody who believes what polticians say to get votes is incredibly ignorant.


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The_Walrus
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08 Oct 2020, 4:07 am

VegetableMan wrote:
TheRobotLives wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
How many moderate Republicans back:

- a public healthcare option
- two years of free college
- ending cash bail
- a $15 federal minimum wage
- paid family leave
- increased corporation tax
- repealing “Right to Work” laws
- banning private prisons and schools

I expect him to accomplish nothing on this list.


Anybody who believes what polticians say to get votes is incredibly ignorant.

I think it’s a little naive to say that all politicians lie or accomplish none of their promises.

For example, despite having a divided Congress for six of his eight years, Politifact found that Obama implemented 47% of his promises and compromise versions of another 27%.

Trump has so far kept 24% of his promises and compromised on 20%.

I have some doubts about Politifact’s methodology (“no cuts to Medicare” appears as a promise kept, compromised on, and broken at the same time).

In the UK, politicians keep a bigger share of their commitments, possibly because power is less fragmented: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... o-promises

While I think it’s good and useful to consider the plausibility of political promises, total cynicism is just as misplaced as total gullibility. If it was purely about winning votes then they’d all promise the same (popular) things and do the same things, but they don’t. Political promises tell us a lot about an administration’s priorities and what sort of things they’re likely to pursue.



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08 Oct 2020, 5:11 am

Biden will win by default.

Trump was historically unpopular presiding over a stable country and quality economy in the Fall of 2019. Had those conditions persisted the election likely would've been very close. A lot has happened in that time and basically all of it is bad for Trump.

The poll numbers being what they are it would take a perfect storm of factors for Trump to win.


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08 Oct 2020, 5:50 am

Trump is currently self destructing - by that, I mean both his campaign and personally - while Biden is starting to look surprisingly good. Without a doubt Biden will win the popular vote. That said, the wild card will be the Electoral College which could leave us stuck with that orange lunatic.


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08 Oct 2020, 5:59 am

Well, Biden seems to have improved his lead the last week or so.

As of today (26 days before the election), Biden is polling 9.7 percentage points ahead of Trump.

Clinton's lead over Trump in 2016 was 5.3 points (also 26 days before the election), so Biden appears to be in much better shape to win on 3 November.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epoll ... 0-vs-2016/

It ought to be a walk in the part for Joe Biden now… I'm still shell-shocked by Trump's victory in 2016, though, so I'll believe it when I see it... not before.


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