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building a real life ASD community

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Jakki
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14 Nov 2020, 11:48 am

Dear_one wrote:
^^ Of course you get more misogynistic remarks from men. Female sexists practice misandry, and even claim that it does not exist.
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Okay I will agree it doesn’t exist ! (Joking) but. Out of a females mouth , and of course depending on context is possibly less likely to be threatening ??.


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Last edited by Jakki on 14 Nov 2020, 11:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

Jakki
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14 Nov 2020, 11:50 am

Possibly depending on upbringing and age and degree of understanding the average autistic male may easily
Perceived as less threatening.? (Just my own opinion) .


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14 Nov 2020, 12:14 pm

Jakki wrote:
Dear_one wrote:
^^ Of course you get more misogynistic remarks from men. Female sexists practice misandry, and even claim that it does not exist.
.
Okay I will agree it doesn’t exist ! (Joking) but. Out of a females mouth , and of course depending on context is possibly less likely to be threatening ??.

Ma Nature is a genius at creating a balance of power, even though men and women have basic differences in reproductive options, etc. If a man's natural inhibitions are weak, he can threaten a woman with immediate violence and a possible unwanted pregnancy. A woman is less terrifying physically, but by building a web of lies, she can get a man to waste his life supporting herself and her children who are not his. Historically, a 10% infidelity rate is very common, and it is good both for keeping the gene pool fresh and for not wasting infertile "fathers" but it is a tragedy individually. Of the men paying child support in the USA, 33% have been both cuckolded, and then enslaved as single men. The courts are not helping, even with DNA evidence now available - women's words are that powerful.



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14 Nov 2020, 12:24 pm

Very strong words dear one ... but in reality cannot mount a adequate argument against what you have written at this time. Albeit it feels alittle slanted .


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14 Nov 2020, 12:30 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:
madbutnotmad wrote:
i have found that some of my NT friends kind of put me in a category of
"ASD friend", which means that i get treated as if i am not normal and invited to
events that are for me and one other person with ASD, rather than his normal
social gatherings, this makes me feel more disabled than I am, as being invited
to "disabled" events rather than normal events puts me in the disabled category
rather than being a regular mate.

hard to work out how i feel about this friend
as although he is being considerate, it does feel like i am being discriminated against at the same time.

Perhaps he assumes (wrongly in your case) that you wouldn't want to attend "his normal social gatherings"?

Or perhaps he is worried that you might embarrass him by committing some faux pas?

Have you ever discussed this matter with him?


Hi, thanks for answering / helping.
I think the friend who i am speaking of, compartmentalises his social groups. Apparently, according to some psychology theory i recently read, this allows him to avoid conflict between various social groups but also in how he acts within the various groups.

Apparently some people who have affairs do this, so they can be several separate people (even several different contradictory people). I believe my ex-wife did this, playing the "Jehovah Witness and wife" (she was JW not me), playing out that persona with me, while she committed adultery with others, where she could be someone (to herself) that wasn't a JW. I believe she even had a personality with one group where she was into witchcraft.
All very contradictory. I think she is messed up in the head, and unfortunately, very damaging to be involved with.

The issue with my friend is different (as i am not his romantic partner).
It still upsets me though as i get only invited to his social events that are designed specifically for me and one other person with ASD, while he parties with several other social groups. Find it upsetting, as I also want to party and find only being invited to sombre ASD gatherings pretty boring.



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14 Nov 2020, 12:36 pm

starkid wrote:
No I haven't considered it because such a community would consist mostly of males and I distrust men.

Besides places near supportive housing arrangements, I can't even think of any high-autism-concentration places to move to.


I can understand that. Perhaps as others have suggested, it may be possible to hook up with other woman as a support group or even a social network. Why not make friends. Can bring a lot of joy to share life with others.

I don't know you and don't have an understanding why you don't like men. And sure, i understand that quiet a few men are very selfish, manipulative and exploitative.

But not all men, some are really honest, and straight forward.
I would say that people with ASD are generally honest due to suffering from the ASD.
Us people with ASD can also be very loyal.

For those great traits it may be worth forgiving a partner or friend who has other problems.



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14 Nov 2020, 1:12 pm

Jakki wrote:
Very strong words dear one ... but in reality cannot mount a adequate argument against what you have written at this time. Albeit it feels alittle slanted .


It feels slanted because it does some actual accounting in the "equality" debate. Mammals are not able to treat the opposite sex as equal because we are symbiotic. Part of that balance makes us inclined to always sympathize with women and treat men as disposable. Genetic studies also show that we have twice as many female ancestors as males - some men had dozens of children, and many had none.

I don't have a community because my ex's malicious gossip was revived by my landlady to cover up a mistake she made. There's no defence against that. I lost 90% of my friends to the divorce, and then all of my new friends. I've been in exile for 14 years now.



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14 Nov 2020, 1:18 pm

SIGHES: have no argument against personal experience .... my heart goes out to you for your circumstances .
As best as I can without knowing precise details ..... :(


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14 Nov 2020, 7:03 pm

Dear_one wrote:
Mammals are not able to treat the opposite sex as equal because we are symbiotic. Part of that balance makes us inclined to always sympathize with women and treat men as disposable.

Social attitudes regarding men and women are not biologically determined. They vary quite a bit from one culture to another, and from one era to another, and from one subculture to another within the same culture and era. There have been significant changes within my lifetime.

Dear_one wrote:
I don't have a community because my ex's malicious gossip was revived by my landlady to cover up a mistake she made. There's no defence against that. I lost 90% of my friends to the divorce, and then all of my new friends. I've been in exile for 14 years now.

I'm very sorry to hear this!

Malicious gossip is a serious issue -- one that contemporary U.S. culture does not take seriously enough, in my opinion. It's an issue we will need to deal with as part of any serious community-building effort.


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14 Nov 2020, 7:20 pm

AuroraBorealisGazer wrote:
I also have to put a lot of careful thought into my words so that I don't say anything that could be misinterpreted in a hurtful way. In-person I don't have a good filter and am very blunt. Being here has allowed me to work on that, but it can be taxing to maintain. So some days on WP, when I have less control I can't maintain it and may offend people. And of course even with filtering myself, because I'm very literal or I don't know many of the hidden meanings behind words or phrases, I say the wrong thing :oops: . On the bright side, recognizing this in myself is why I'm a proponent of giving others the benefit of the doubt :) .

In a viable autistic community, we will need to be able to give each other the benefit of the doubt, for obvious reasons. IMO a viable autistic community needs to have an ethic of clear, forthright communication. We should aim to be assertive without being aggressive, and it is much better to err on the side of bluntness than to be a backstabber.


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14 Nov 2020, 8:53 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:
Dear_one wrote:
Mammals are not able to treat the opposite sex as equal because we are symbiotic. Part of that balance makes us inclined to always sympathize with women and treat men as disposable.

Social attitudes regarding men and women are not biologically determined. They vary quite a bit from one culture to another, and from one era to another, and from one subculture to another within the same culture and era. There have been significant changes within my lifetime.


I've seen those big changes in attitude too, but under it all, I still see the oldest parts of our brains working with whatever culture they encounter. There is not a gendered creature on earth that knows how to behave in an encounter until they have determined both species and gender. The expectations that arise from that can change quickly, but people are adamant about being treated according to their gender, however they perceive it.



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14 Nov 2020, 9:40 pm

starkid wrote:
Mona Pereth wrote:
starkid wrote:
No I haven't considered it because such a community would consist mostly of males and I distrust men.

How would you feel about an autistic community in which the women were specifically encouraged to get to know each other and/or participate in a women's support group?

No, that wouldn't fix the problem. The problem is that men are

A. more likely to be violent that women
B. more likely to say and think misogynistic things than women

It's not about me merely <i>feeling</i> unsafe, it's about men literally being a threat. It's the same reason I don't go read through the S&R forum; I got tired of being exposed to misogyny. A support group of women can't fix men's behavior.

Indeed it can't "fix men's behavior."

Nevertheless, having a cluster of good friends within an organized local, in-person, subculture-based community can go a long way toward protecting women from violence. A man who is a longstanding member of such a local network is far less likely than the average male stranger to be violent because, if he were violent, he would get a bad reputation within the community. Also, if you have female friends within a group, you can avoid being alone with any man, or with a group of men.

There are no 100% guarantees of course, but you are also less likely to encounter misogynistic attitudes within a group that expels men who habitually express misogynistic attitudes.

starkid wrote:
Quote:
Large cities have high concentrations of people in general, hence also high concentrations of any given category of people, including autistic people. The only problem is finding them.

They're also more expensive to live in, to buy property in, and to pay rent in, so that would make the project expensive if you are trying to start up a housing community.

Hopefully a lot of the people now leaving cities due to the CoViD crisis won't come back. If they don't come back, cities will be less expensive, at least for a while.

starkid wrote:
Cities are louder and more over-stimulating, so it wouldn't work well for people with sensory sensitivity.

A sufficiently well-organized community could pressure the local police department to pay more attention to noise complaints.

starkid wrote:
You could have the community out in the suburbs, but then that creates transportation problems, especially for those who cannot drive.

Ideally we would have communities in both the cities and the suburbs. But it's easier to start in cities.


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14 Nov 2020, 9:43 pm

All this theorizing and pep-talking is well and good; but does anyone have a plan for action?


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14 Nov 2020, 9:55 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:
Indeed it can't "fix men's behavior."

Nevertheless, having a cluster of good friends within an organized local, in-person, subculture-based community can go a long way toward protecting women from violence. A man who is a longstanding member of such a local network is far less likely than the average male stranger to be violent because, if he were violent, he would get a bad reputation within the community. Also, if you have female friends within a group, you can avoid being alone with any man, or with a group of men.

There are no 100% guarantees of course, but you are also less likely to encounter misogynistic attitudes within a group that expels men who habitually express misogynistic attitudes.


Do you think that gentlemen are now extinct? That no man can be trusted to keep his hands to himself, and defend the weak at need? I'm feeling rather invisible these days.
I was at a music festival about ten years ago, when I saw a girl about ten years old get a bad splinter. I'm a handyman, so I have specialized sliver-removing tweezers on my keychain. I offered them to her, and was met with great fear and suspicion. I pointed out the first-aid tent, and followed her there at a distance, to pass the tweezers through the volunteers there, but she never lost the attitude. I'd really have to think twice about approaching any child in trouble without a dozen witnesses.



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14 Nov 2020, 10:01 pm

Back when I was dating, if a man expressed his desires for a woman, she labelled him as a creep, a letch, or a perv; but if he behaved in a gentlemanly manner, she labelled him as weak and a wimp.


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14 Nov 2020, 10:09 pm

P.S. I also heard of a rather exasperated Policeman at a baseball game. He was holding a lost child at arm's length, while the kid kept screaming "Call a Policeman! This man is not my father!"