Are people too self-righteous for refusing covid vaccines?

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KT67
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20 Nov 2020, 9:04 am

If I was American I wouldn't take them either.

Should be done in time for them being tested etc. Stay home until that. Should be sorted according to who's most vulnerable and not according to who volunteers first or all at once.

I'm not so it's between me, my confidence in overcoming needle phobia and my parents' safety (they have theirs before I have mine, which is as it should be)


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Fnord
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20 Nov 2020, 9:09 am

I have already been in contact with my health care provider and people at Pfizer to get the vaccine ASAP.


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Tempus Fugit
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20 Nov 2020, 9:58 am

I heard the vaccine will be administered according to priority.
And that most likely healthcare workers will be first ie the large scale but short term guinea pigs.
It is noteworthy that some people did experience serious side effects from the 2009 H1N1 vaccine.
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/conce ... y-flu.html



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20 Nov 2020, 9:59 am

It is noteworthy that some do experience serious side effects from any vaccine.


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Tempus Fugit
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20 Nov 2020, 10:02 am

The question is how long will it take before it's known what side effects from this one are.
And how many people will experience them.



League_Girl
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20 Nov 2020, 11:24 am

Tempus Fugit wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
Tempus Fugit wrote:
The problem with governments making it mandatory is, what steps would be taken to enforce it? Will people be forcibly inoculated against their will? Will they have everything taken from them if they don't capitulate? Will they be rounded up and placed in quarantine camps?



They would get arrested and go to jail or pay hefty fines. Maybe get their kids taken from them and get charged with child abuse. All for not getting vaccinated.


Is that the kind of world anyone wants to live in?


Honestly that wouldn't bother me. We already have child abuse and medical neglect against the law, how is not getting your children any required shots abuse or medical neglect?

Sadly there are lot of abuse you can do to your kids and get away with it. But however, schools here require kids to be vaccinated and ask for the medical records. I have no idea how anti vaccine nutters get around it. Maybe they forge the medical records for their kid, I don't know.


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ironpony
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20 Nov 2020, 11:49 am

League_Girl wrote:
Tempus Fugit wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
Tempus Fugit wrote:
The problem with governments making it mandatory is, what steps would be taken to enforce it? Will people be forcibly inoculated against their will? Will they have everything taken from them if they don't capitulate? Will they be rounded up and placed in quarantine camps?



They would get arrested and go to jail or pay hefty fines. Maybe get their kids taken from them and get charged with child abuse. All for not getting vaccinated.


Is that the kind of world anyone wants to live in?


Honestly that wouldn't bother me. We already have child abuse and medical neglect against the law, how is not getting your children any required shots abuse or medical neglect?

Sadly there are lot of abuse you can do to your kids and get away with it. But however, schools here require kids to be vaccinated and ask for the medical records. I have no idea how anti vaccine nutters get around it. Maybe they forge the medical records for their kid, I don't know.


Oh okay, where do you live? I feel that even though I was harsh on saying adults should get it, and perhaps it should be mandatory, I don't think I believe in children having to get it mandatorily though, at least not at this stage.



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20 Nov 2020, 12:07 pm

KT67 wrote:
More selfish than self-righteous.

The self-righteous thing would be taking it if it hadn't been developed (as it has) by scientists who underwent peer review.




You are absolutely correct, but I would include that those who intend to refuse COVID vaccinations lack intellect and empathy.


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aghogday
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20 Nov 2020, 12:28 pm



Two 'Concrete Virtues', 'Trump Rule' Proves...

Science And Law is More

'God-like'

Than Church
And Governing
Administrative State;

And at Core, Humans

Are Not Particularly Rational;

As Some Will Believe A Melting

Clown On stage With Brown

Tears Dropping From His Hair...

'i'm Melting...

i'm Melting'...

It isn't The First
Instance, 'Oz' is proven
As A Conspiracy Theory
And the Curtain is Pulled
Away From the 'Old Man' With 'Little Man Syndrome'...

It Won't Be The Last, Either; Bookmark, The Photo of

The Wicked Witch of the West's Lawyer, Melting on Stage too;

In Organized Deceit, for Future Memories to Inspire Voting Behavior Again;

Sadly, Now, Still,

Some of The Same

20 to 50 Percent

Or So of Most Folks

Folks Who Also Believe

In The Lawyer For the Wicked

Witch of the West Melting on Stage

Will Also Believe the Similar Conspiracy

Theories About Masks; About Covid-19 in
General; About Vaccines as they already Do
in Larger Numbers Now as Measles is trying to
Make a Come Back too at the Joy of Human Ignorance, True;

And in many Cases, Similar Folks Who Believe Now That An All
Loving Forgiving God, Who Clearly Says Love Your Enemy, And
Turn The Other Cheek; Will Also Send You to a Worst Torture Possible

(That's A Hell oF A Longer Term Conspiracy Theory; Indeed, Truly EPiC)

in Burning Hell...

For Not Bowing Down

And Worshipping An

Entity So Small Still to
Require that Approval

to Feel Good That is Afraid

of Criticism That With

Such Low Self-Esteem

That Has/Is Nothing to Do

Now With 'True' Love At all

Forever Eternally Now...

Yes, Firing, Burning

Ya in Hell..

But No, Yes,

i'm telling Ya, No, Now...

Believe it or Not 'Ripley
And Horatio' for those who
Have Not Yet Visited Now...

I've been to Hell'; iN 'That Place Now Within...

Yes, the Opposite Place From All Connection For All;

One Screams to Be Burned Forever; But One Just Can NOT FeeL iT;

For THere are Some Places Where Even Demons Dare Not Tread;

WHere All THere is, Is TiMe; A Second, A Thousand Years in Hell

Within;

Whereas,

'The Other

Place' is no

[email protected]

It's True Now;

i suggest that

'Trump and His

Minions' are

on the

Highway

to Hell Now

in Fact, it's obvious,

They are already Buying REAL ESTaTE NoW...

Indeed, Swamp Land in Arizona or '5th Avenue', 'Wherever';

Anyway, Mix in Ignorance of Science and Laws; Both That
Otherwise When FoLLoWeD Save Lives; And One Gets Harming,
Injuring, Maiming; Yes, Raping, Killing The Whole Lot of

An Old
Testament
God Narcissistic
DoMinated DoMinion Still...

Humans, are Just so Dam Fascinating to Observe....

Oops, Add to the List of Science And Laws: Love,

It's A Mix That Glues IT All ToGeTHeR

EiTHeR iN

LiGHT

or

DarK SaMe

As it's True THere

Are Lovers of DarK And LiGHT

And Lovers Of DarK, Just

Do Not Want A Party

oF iGNoRanCE

iN The Face

NoW Of Organized

Deceit and Lies to End Yet...

Science And Laws; A Savior

Yes, Most Definitely Truth in Light

With Will For True Love Does Go 'Both Ways'....

Both

True

And

In False Land too...

'Click, Click, Click';

Thank God,

'Kansas'

i'm

Home
Again Whew...

By The Way,

Truly Home; Yes,

'Kansas is Within'

And It's Not 'the Other

Place', 'the Point of No Return',

WHere There is not even a Memory

of A Smile as Memories are Emotions

And Emotions Are Memories; Just

No Reference

Point at

All

Out of

Hell; Just

F iN Hell...

-Dorothy

'THere Will Always

Be More 'Wicked Witches'

Who come to evenTually 'Melt....'

With That 'Old BLaCK MaGiC' in Tow...

Some Folks

Understand

A Deeper

Ocean Now

Of Existence

In 'Existential

Intelligences'

And Some Folks

Don't; Really, iN A Place

With 'Black Magic Witches', Evil of Lies

And Organized Deceit; Do 'You' Really Believe Life's Fair;

i suggest 'You' Watch 'Your' Back; i suggest You Become Wise iNDeeD....

For 'You', Never KNoW 'Who' is Sitting Next to You; Where They have Been

Or
WHere
They Will
Take You
Next Now if

You 'Ride' With them;

Without Finding Out Who They Really Are...

For It's True, We All May Have the Potential

to Become one of 'Them' in 'That Place' too... As 'US'... Seen 'IT' Happen...


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Double Retired
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20 Nov 2020, 12:45 pm

Tempus Fugit wrote:
Really it seems to me that if the most vulnerable people are vaccinated, then it won't make that much difference if the 99% who won't need to be hospitalized aren't.
I think there is a reason they want to vaccinate everyone, even the healthy young folk.

1. Some might think that if you're healthy enough and young enough then you are unlikely to die from it...but since we're talking life or death I think getting a vaccine to get the best survival odds might be prudent.

2. Some might think that if you're healthy enough and young enough then you are unlikely to die from it...but I've seen some articles where the medical community has observed long-term adverse medical impacts even for survivors and I think getting a vaccine to try to avoid long-term adverse medical impacts might be prudent.

3. I am not young enough and healthy enough that the above apply. I definitely want to be vaccinated. But even though the vaccines are expected to be very effective, they're not expected to be 100% effective. Even if I get vaccinated I might still be vulnerable so I'd still really like to not meet anyone who is infected, even if they're healthy enough and young enough that they'll probably be okay--because I might be one of the unlucky ones for whom the vaccine was not effective. The experts say they need a large percentage of the population protected, even the healthy young folk, to (mostly) contain the virus. Listening to them might be prudent.

So, when you can, please get vaccinated.

Confession: I live in the U.S. where the current President and his inner-circle appear to be making decisions based upon short-term public relations implications rather than long-term public safety implications. It is unclear to me how much they've meddled with the vaccine approval process. So, I want to get vaccinated, but I might wait a few weeks, just to be prudent.


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League_Girl
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20 Nov 2020, 1:10 pm

ironpony wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
Tempus Fugit wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
Tempus Fugit wrote:
The problem with governments making it mandatory is, what steps would be taken to enforce it? Will people be forcibly inoculated against their will? Will they have everything taken from them if they don't capitulate? Will they be rounded up and placed in quarantine camps?



They would get arrested and go to jail or pay hefty fines. Maybe get their kids taken from them and get charged with child abuse. All for not getting vaccinated.


Is that the kind of world anyone wants to live in?


Honestly that wouldn't bother me. We already have child abuse and medical neglect against the law, how is not getting your children any required shots abuse or medical neglect?

Sadly there are lot of abuse you can do to your kids and get away with it. But however, schools here require kids to be vaccinated and ask for the medical records. I have no idea how anti vaccine nutters get around it. Maybe they forge the medical records for their kid, I don't know.


Oh okay, where do you live? I feel that even though I was harsh on saying adults should get it, and perhaps it should be mandatory, I don't think I believe in children having to get it mandatorily though, at least not at this stage.



Here in Oregon, every school my kids have gone too all require current records of vaccinations. Kids already get vaccinations in their toddler years so I don't see why this is any different.


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TheRobotLives
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20 Nov 2020, 1:11 pm

Fnord wrote:
I have already been in contact with my health care provider and people at Pfizer to get the vaccine ASAP.

Pfizer vaccine is 2 shots every 3 months, so 8 shots per year.

You can never be sure if you are protected or not because they don't know how long it lasts.


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Fnord
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20 Nov 2020, 1:19 pm

TheRobotLives wrote:
... they don't know how long it lasts.
Yet.

They don't know how long it lasts yet.


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Tempus Fugit
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20 Nov 2020, 1:58 pm

Double Retired wrote:
Tempus Fugit wrote:
Really it seems to me that if the most vulnerable people are vaccinated, then it won't make that much difference if the 99% who won't need to be hospitalized aren't.
I think there is a reason they want to vaccinate everyone, even the healthy young folk.

1. Some might think that if you're healthy enough and young enough then you are unlikely to die from it...but since we're talking life or death I think getting a vaccine to get the best survival odds might be prudent.

2. Some might think that if you're healthy enough and young enough then you are unlikely to die from it...but I've seen some articles where the medical community has observed long-term adverse medical impacts even for survivors and I think getting a vaccine to try to avoid long-term adverse medical impacts might be prudent.

3. I am not young enough and healthy enough that the above apply. I definitely want to be vaccinated. But even though the vaccines are expected to be very effective, they're not expected to be 100% effective. Even if I get vaccinated I might still be vulnerable so I'd still really like to not meet anyone who is infected, even if they're healthy enough and young enough that they'll probably be okay--because I might be one of the unlucky ones for whom the vaccine was not effective. The experts say they need a large percentage of the population protected, even the healthy young folk, to (mostly) contain the virus. Listening to them might be prudent.

So, when you can, please get vaccinated.

Confession: I live in the U.S. where the current President and his inner-circle appear to be making decisions based upon short-term public relations implications rather than long-term public safety implications. It is unclear to me how much they've meddled with the vaccine approval process. So, I want to get vaccinated, but I might wait a few weeks, just to be prudent.


Nothing is 100%. If I was worried about that which doesn't guarantee 100% safety, I'm not sure I can think of a single thing that's completely safe. Even sleeping might be dangerous and life threatening if I have sleep apnea. If I was as terrified of daily life as it seems I'm supposed to be of this virus, I certainly would never leave the house, much less ever get into a car. That food looks good and I'm hungry, but what about the colesterol? Heart disease kills millions each year. And there's food poisoning. And choking to death. I'm so worried I need a benzodiazepine now. But wait, those are dangerous too.



ironpony
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20 Nov 2020, 7:10 pm

League_Girl wrote:
ironpony wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
Tempus Fugit wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
Tempus Fugit wrote:
The problem with governments making it mandatory is, what steps would be taken to enforce it? Will people be forcibly inoculated against their will? Will they have everything taken from them if they don't capitulate? Will they be rounded up and placed in quarantine camps?



They would get arrested and go to jail or pay hefty fines. Maybe get their kids taken from them and get charged with child abuse. All for not getting vaccinated.


Is that the kind of world anyone wants to live in?


Honestly that wouldn't bother me. We already have child abuse and medical neglect against the law, how is not getting your children any required shots abuse or medical neglect?

Sadly there are lot of abuse you can do to your kids and get away with it. But however, schools here require kids to be vaccinated and ask for the medical records. I have no idea how anti vaccine nutters get around it. Maybe they forge the medical records for their kid, I don't know.


Oh okay, where do you live? I feel that even though I was harsh on saying adults should get it, and perhaps it should be mandatory, I don't think I believe in children having to get it mandatorily though, at least not at this stage.



Here in Oregon, every school my kids have gone too all require current records of vaccinations. Kids already get vaccinations in their toddler years so I don't see why this is any different.


Oh okay, but are the required by law to be though?



ironpony
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20 Nov 2020, 7:12 pm

Double Retired wrote:
Tempus Fugit wrote:
Really it seems to me that if the most vulnerable people are vaccinated, then it won't make that much difference if the 99% who won't need to be hospitalized aren't.
I think there is a reason they want to vaccinate everyone, even the healthy young folk.

1. Some might think that if you're healthy enough and young enough then you are unlikely to die from it...but since we're talking life or death I think getting a vaccine to get the best survival odds might be prudent.

2. Some might think that if you're healthy enough and young enough then you are unlikely to die from it...but I've seen some articles where the medical community has observed long-term adverse medical impacts even for survivors and I think getting a vaccine to try to avoid long-term adverse medical impacts might be prudent.

3. I am not young enough and healthy enough that the above apply. I definitely want to be vaccinated. But even though the vaccines are expected to be very effective, they're not expected to be 100% effective. Even if I get vaccinated I might still be vulnerable so I'd still really like to not meet anyone who is infected, even if they're healthy enough and young enough that they'll probably be okay--because I might be one of the unlucky ones for whom the vaccine was not effective. The experts say they need a large percentage of the population protected, even the healthy young folk, to (mostly) contain the virus. Listening to them might be prudent.

So, when you can, please get vaccinated.

Confession: I live in the U.S. where the current President and his inner-circle appear to be making decisions based upon short-term public relations implications rather than long-term public safety implications. It is unclear to me how much they've meddled with the vaccine approval process. So, I want to get vaccinated, but I might wait a few weeks, just to be prudent.


But even if you are young enough and healthy enough to die from it, can young people still prevent the spread of it, if they refuse to take a vaccine?