Reply personal responsibility is a crock: here is why

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AngelRho
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31 Jan 2021, 10:28 am

cubedemon6073 wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
Cube: You have me confused with someone who feels he has to defend what he says. I’m not presenting an argument. Plus I don’t go digging for evidence that nobody else is going to believe anyway. If I know something, I say something. Academics and jurors argue evidence until someone gets tired of arguing and declares the last word the winner. Everyone else just lives life. In my experience, demands for evidence are just a tool for people to get out of believing something that is true.

I’ve answered your questions. What you do with that is your responsibility.


Another thing, I don't understand.

So, if you don't feel the need to defend what you say or believe nor presenting or defending an argument then why respond to anything I say at all? You could've just ignored the entire thread, passed it upon by and live your life like everyone else with Cranial-Rectal Embedment. What was your goal exactly? What was it that you were trying to accomplish?

And, like I said you answered nothing and gave the same conservative talking points without evidence or how you derived them. Only difference was you gave them in more sophisticated ways and more detail then the NT conservative but you said a lot and said nothing.

Your bias is showing through again. You’re unwilling to take me seriously. Why should I feel motivated to offer anything else if I’m just wasting time?

Someone who can be said to know a thing with certainty isn’t obligated nor compelled to defend his knowledge as though his knowledge ISN’T certain. I have no reason to accept your premise. Why should I? At this point you’re just repeating yourself, anyway. I’ve answered all your questions.



cubedemon6073
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04 Feb 2021, 2:58 am

AngelRho wrote:
cubedemon6073 wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
Cube: You have me confused with someone who feels he has to defend what he says. I’m not presenting an argument. Plus I don’t go digging for evidence that nobody else is going to believe anyway. If I know something, I say something. Academics and jurors argue evidence until someone gets tired of arguing and declares the last word the winner. Everyone else just lives life. In my experience, demands for evidence are just a tool for people to get out of believing something that is true.

I’ve answered your questions. What you do with that is your responsibility.


Another thing, I don't understand.

So, if you don't feel the need to defend what you say or believe nor presenting or defending an argument then why respond to anything I say at all? You could've just ignored the entire thread, passed it upon by and live your life like everyone else with Cranial-Rectal Embedment. What was your goal exactly? What was it that you were trying to accomplish?

And, like I said you answered nothing and gave the same conservative talking points without evidence or how you derived them. Only difference was you gave them in more sophisticated ways and more detail then the NT conservative but you said a lot and said nothing.

Your bias is showing through again. You’re unwilling to take me seriously. Why should I feel motivated to offer anything else if I’m just wasting time?

Someone who can be said to know a thing with certainty isn’t obligated nor compelled to defend his knowledge as though his knowledge ISN’T certain. I have no reason to accept your premise. Why should I? At this point you’re just repeating yourself, anyway. I’ve answered all your questions.


Let me ask you this like I've asked others with your thoughts. Do you want to pay for someone's welfare or disability check or do you want them productive people producing values for themselves or society? Do you want to pay for someone's three hots and a cot when they commit a crime b/c they believed prison was the only way they could survive? Like it or not you will be paying in some way if a person can't succeed on their own or feel like they can't succeed.



AngelRho
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04 Feb 2021, 5:10 am

cubedemon6073 wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
cubedemon6073 wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
Cube: You have me confused with someone who feels he has to defend what he says. I’m not presenting an argument. Plus I don’t go digging for evidence that nobody else is going to believe anyway. If I know something, I say something. Academics and jurors argue evidence until someone gets tired of arguing and declares the last word the winner. Everyone else just lives life. In my experience, demands for evidence are just a tool for people to get out of believing something that is true.

I’ve answered your questions. What you do with that is your responsibility.


Another thing, I don't understand.

So, if you don't feel the need to defend what you say or believe nor presenting or defending an argument then why respond to anything I say at all? You could've just ignored the entire thread, passed it upon by and live your life like everyone else with Cranial-Rectal Embedment. What was your goal exactly? What was it that you were trying to accomplish?

And, like I said you answered nothing and gave the same conservative talking points without evidence or how you derived them. Only difference was you gave them in more sophisticated ways and more detail then the NT conservative but you said a lot and said nothing.

Your bias is showing through again. You’re unwilling to take me seriously. Why should I feel motivated to offer anything else if I’m just wasting time?

Someone who can be said to know a thing with certainty isn’t obligated nor compelled to defend his knowledge as though his knowledge ISN’T certain. I have no reason to accept your premise. Why should I? At this point you’re just repeating yourself, anyway. I’ve answered all your questions.


Let me ask you this like I've asked others with your thoughts. Do you want to pay for someone's welfare or disability check or do you want them productive people producing values for themselves or society? Do you want to pay for someone's three hots and a cot when they commit a crime b/c they believed prison was the only way they could survive? Like it or not you will be paying in some way if a person can't succeed on their own or feel like they can't succeed.

You’re just repeating yourself. Nothing useful can come out of this. You’ve already made up your mind. What’s the point of continuing this discussion? I’ve already answered these questions.



cubedemon6073
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04 Feb 2021, 7:16 am

AngelRho wrote:
cubedemon6073 wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
cubedemon6073 wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
Cube: You have me confused with someone who feels he has to defend what he says. I’m not presenting an argument. Plus I don’t go digging for evidence that nobody else is going to believe anyway. If I know something, I say something. Academics and jurors argue evidence until someone gets tired of arguing and declares the last word the winner. Everyone else just lives life. In my experience, demands for evidence are just a tool for people to get out of believing something that is true.

I’ve answered your questions. What you do with that is your responsibility.


Another thing, I don't understand.

So, if you don't feel the need to defend what you say or believe nor presenting or defending an argument then why respond to anything I say at all? You could've just ignored the entire thread, passed it upon by and live your life like everyone else with Cranial-Rectal Embedment. What was your goal exactly? What was it that you were trying to accomplish?

And, like I said you answered nothing and gave the same conservative talking points without evidence or how you derived them. Only difference was you gave them in more sophisticated ways and more detail then the NT conservative but you said a lot and said nothing.

Your bias is showing through again. You’re unwilling to take me seriously. Why should I feel motivated to offer anything else if I’m just wasting time?

Someone who can be said to know a thing with certainty isn’t obligated nor compelled to defend his knowledge as though his knowledge ISN’T certain. I have no reason to accept your premise. Why should I? At this point you’re just repeating yourself, anyway. I’ve answered all your questions.


Let me ask you this like I've asked others with your thoughts. Do you want to pay for someone's welfare or disability check or do you want them productive people producing values for themselves or society? Do you want to pay for someone's three hots and a cot when they commit a crime b/c they believed prison was the only way they could survive? Like it or not you will be paying in some way if a person can't succeed on their own or feel like they can't succeed.

You’re just repeating yourself. Nothing useful can come out of this. You’ve already made up your mind. What’s the point of continuing this discussion? I’ve already answered these questions.


I can ask the same thing. If you say this is useless then why respond further? You must selfishly gain something or you would not even respond at all. You believe in the virtue of selfishness as per one of Rand's top tenets.



AngelRho
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04 Feb 2021, 11:04 am

cubedemon6073 wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
cubedemon6073 wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
cubedemon6073 wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
Cube: You have me confused with someone who feels he has to defend what he says. I’m not presenting an argument. Plus I don’t go digging for evidence that nobody else is going to believe anyway. If I know something, I say something. Academics and jurors argue evidence until someone gets tired of arguing and declares the last word the winner. Everyone else just lives life. In my experience, demands for evidence are just a tool for people to get out of believing something that is true.

I’ve answered your questions. What you do with that is your responsibility.


Another thing, I don't understand.

So, if you don't feel the need to defend what you say or believe nor presenting or defending an argument then why respond to anything I say at all? You could've just ignored the entire thread, passed it upon by and live your life like everyone else with Cranial-Rectal Embedment. What was your goal exactly? What was it that you were trying to accomplish?

And, like I said you answered nothing and gave the same conservative talking points without evidence or how you derived them. Only difference was you gave them in more sophisticated ways and more detail then the NT conservative but you said a lot and said nothing.

Your bias is showing through again. You’re unwilling to take me seriously. Why should I feel motivated to offer anything else if I’m just wasting time?

Someone who can be said to know a thing with certainty isn’t obligated nor compelled to defend his knowledge as though his knowledge ISN’T certain. I have no reason to accept your premise. Why should I? At this point you’re just repeating yourself, anyway. I’ve answered all your questions.


Let me ask you this like I've asked others with your thoughts. Do you want to pay for someone's welfare or disability check or do you want them productive people producing values for themselves or society? Do you want to pay for someone's three hots and a cot when they commit a crime b/c they believed prison was the only way they could survive? Like it or not you will be paying in some way if a person can't succeed on their own or feel like they can't succeed.

You’re just repeating yourself. Nothing useful can come out of this. You’ve already made up your mind. What’s the point of continuing this discussion? I’ve already answered these questions.


I can ask the same thing. If you say this is useless then why respond further? You must selfishly gain something or you would not even respond at all. You believe in the virtue of selfishness as per one of Rand's top tenets.

Most people regard selfishness as anything but a virtue. I think one of the most misunderstood points of objectivism is the virtuosity of selfishness. Objectivism does not consider ALL selfish thought or action to be virtuous. Greedy people, for example, mistakenly believe they are acting in their self interest when they insist on taking things they didn't earn...but nevertheless they might reasonably be said to be selfish people. Envious people, those who hate the achievements of others, might also be reasonably said to be selfish. Animals are instinctively selfish because they can only act to increase their chances of survival. There is nothing virtuous at all about acting on survival instinct.

Start with that and answer this question: If those manifestations of selfishness are not virtuous, what manifestations of selfishness WOULD be virtuous?



cubedemon6073
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04 Feb 2021, 11:46 am

AngelRho wrote:
cubedemon6073 wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
cubedemon6073 wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
cubedemon6073 wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
Cube: You have me confused with someone who feels he has to defend what he says. I’m not presenting an argument. Plus I don’t go digging for evidence that nobody else is going to believe anyway. If I know something, I say something. Academics and jurors argue evidence until someone gets tired of arguing and declares the last word the winner. Everyone else just lives life. In my experience, demands for evidence are just a tool for people to get out of believing something that is true.

I’ve answered your questions. What you do with that is your responsibility.


Another thing, I don't understand.

So, if you don't feel the need to defend what you say or believe nor presenting or defending an argument then why respond to anything I say at all? You could've just ignored the entire thread, passed it upon by and live your life like everyone else with Cranial-Rectal Embedment. What was your goal exactly? What was it that you were trying to accomplish?

And, like I said you answered nothing and gave the same conservative talking points without evidence or how you derived them. Only difference was you gave them in more sophisticated ways and more detail then the NT conservative but you said a lot and said nothing.

Your bias is showing through again. You’re unwilling to take me seriously. Why should I feel motivated to offer anything else if I’m just wasting time?

Someone who can be said to know a thing with certainty isn’t obligated nor compelled to defend his knowledge as though his knowledge ISN’T certain. I have no reason to accept your premise. Why should I? At this point you’re just repeating yourself, anyway. I’ve answered all your questions.


Let me ask you this like I've asked others with your thoughts. Do you want to pay for someone's welfare or disability check or do you want them productive people producing values for themselves or society? Do you want to pay for someone's three hots and a cot when they commit a crime b/c they believed prison was the only way they could survive? Like it or not you will be paying in some way if a person can't succeed on their own or feel like they can't succeed.

You’re just repeating yourself. Nothing useful can come out of this. You’ve already made up your mind. What’s the point of continuing this discussion? I’ve already answered these questions.


I can ask the same thing. If you say this is useless then why respond further? You must selfishly gain something or you would not even respond at all. You believe in the virtue of selfishness as per one of Rand's top tenets.

Most people regard selfishness as anything but a virtue. I think one of the most misunderstood points of objectivism is the virtuosity of selfishness. Objectivism does not consider ALL selfish thought or action to be virtuous. Greedy people, for example, mistakenly believe they are acting in their self interest when they insist on taking things they didn't earn...but nevertheless they might reasonably be said to be selfish people. Envious people, those who hate the achievements of others, might also be reasonably said to be selfish. Animals are instinctively selfish because they can only act to increase their chances of survival. There is nothing virtuous at all about acting on survival instinct.

Start with that and answer this question: If those manifestations of selfishness are not virtuous, what manifestations of selfishness WOULD be virtuous?


I'll bite. The ones that would bring the most benefit to the most people (preferably everyone) including yourself.



aghogday
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04 Feb 2021, 12:25 pm



Just Sort oF A Quick note:

'John Nash' was Willing to Admit
Later in Life That His 'Game Theory'

(Elton John Already Figured it out)

Was Flawed

As He Didn't

Have Enough Emotional

Intelligence to Understand

Why Humans Even Tick in the First

Place... So Why Is Giving Receiving...

Get back

to me

When Ya

Find 'Your' Answer....

Hey, If a Nobel Prize Winner
Can Admit His Limitations,
Perhaps 'Ann Rand' Could Have too...

Life is Not Objective; Life Is Not Rational;

Humans Live Life First According to Senses/Emotions;

Life is Always Subjective And Even Science Shows This to Be True Now...

In A Rather Delicious Way Indeed As 'Woo Sayers' Become 'Pooh Doers' of Incorrect...

Or Shall

We Wonder

Why Humans

With Higher Levels

of Emotional Intelligence

Will Rarely Support a Human Being

For President With Zero Levels of Empathy...

Why is that Important?

What Difference Does

(MARJORIE GREEN
A 'Brand' NEW TRUMP
mini-me MeMe NoW)

It make if a Leader

Or A Scientist

Has 'A Soul'

Which is Just another

Metaphor for Human

Emotional Intelligence in Well Being...

And Hell No This Isn't Limited to Autism

As 74 Million Folks Voted For a Leader That
Anyone with any 'Normal' Levels of Emotional Intelligence Will

See As Soulless, Just Having a Conversation With Them for a few minutes...

And Likely Wouldn't Be Back to Buy the 'Used Car'; The 'Lemonade' that is obviously 'Lemon'

For those With Eyes

And Ears to See

For You See John

Nash Didn't have Enough of

Those Emotional Eyes and

Ears of Intelligence to Understand

He Was Not Even 'Qualified' to assess even the Fuller Human Condition....

Yet Again, A Nobel Prize Winner of the Part He did do; Humble Enough to Admit His Flaws...

It's Like me, When i Lost my Emotions,
'They' Sent me to A Psychotherapist
And Psychiatrist; Cold And

Emotionless;

Indeed, Not

Quite Fully Human

(Empath i finally
Got to see at least
reminded me of
who i used to be)

In 'Affect'; True, 8 Years

Of Medical School Using

Mechanical Cognition Will

Make 'Johnny' a Rather Dull Boy

Who Does Not Wanna Play For Any Reason Yet Fun...

So Who is Right or

Wrong; Who

Actually Breathes this Life for Fun...

There Are Some (MANY) Intelligences Beyond Measure;

Science Can't Even Measure Our Human Consciousness, Empirically As Such...

Rationality And Objectivity, Grand Illusions For Real As Neuroscience Shows Now;

So Ironic, Yet no escaping this 'Reality Show' now...

Other than

Making the

Regulating of Emotions
And Integrating of Senses

In Real Life Autotelic Heaven Flow NoW

A Number One Priority And

Becoming at Least Free

to Always Enjoy Life Now...

Beats the Hell and Heaven
Out of someone else's Fantasy of A
Dirt-Nap Hell and Heaven, Spoon Fed From Birth to insure

Folks Never

Truly Appreciate

Life Now so easy

to Control And

Subjugate

At the

Used

Car Lot

Holding

All the Vaperware

of Carrots And Sticks After Death When the 'Vehicle' Dies...

Never Even Living At All; Just Manufactured 'Mass' Produced Purgatory/Hell on Earth...

Never Feeling Worthy, Cause 'Big Daddy' and or the Priest/Pope/Trump told 'em so...

If They Don't Do What They

Say to Do or Even

If they

Are Born at all this way...

What We Can And Will Potentially
Do Is Be Personally Responsible for
Our Own Emotions and Senses Regulating

And Integrating them Well; Where it doesn't

Matter Who is Right or Wrong; Just That We Are Enough As Is Now.... COMPLETE; Yes life job well done NoW;

Honestly, Most People get into debates to try lift them self up to something else... RIGHT OR WRONG

For What They Feel
And Sense within...

Often for what
They Seem to
Be Missing
Incomplete...

An Option

is coming

Into 'A Discussion of Life, Overall', Complete...

Perhaps if it is an Option at all as Life ain't fair.... That Much is Real...

The Other Part is Also True Now, This Heaven When All feels and senses

As Perfect

As Perfect

Ever Gets As Enough Now....

C O M P L E T E just complete

NoW iNdeed a Greatest Personal
Responsibility NoW Anyone Will
Ever Fulfill to Never Run Out of Giving/Sharing/Loving For Now....

Obviously, A Message of A Real Jesus Story for 'Those' with Eyes

And Ears to See and Hear Essentially Same As Buddha/Lao-Tzu's

Samahdi/Tao Story, True too

This Heaven

This Kingdom

Fulfilled Within to
Give and Share Free
With Least Harm repeat
That/This if ya can and will until you

get it

give and

share free

with least

harm in do

give and share

free with least harm...

Like A 'RoSaRY' Blooming Colors More on Fire oF LiGHT

For Real Within to See and Hear Give and Share Freely More...

Yet Only if Ya

Can and Will...

Will it Hurt; iN A Word No..

Will it Change A World, at least one...

Ya See what John Nash Didn't Understand
In the Bar Scene About 'the Blonde'; Why She
Looked His way; He was NOT looking FOR Her

He looked

Self-fulfilled

Complete; And

The Challenge worth

Pursuing to 'the Blonde'...

Nah.. John Nash didn't have a clue...

Even if it was Just a Fictional Movie; Let me play
It again.. and i Will show Ya Swarms of Flowers
Around me too in real life too; i never leave home

without the evidence; OVER 2000 PHOTOS
IN EMPIRICAL WAY FOR THIS REAL case study....

Why is this true,

Again the Most

Attractive thing

to a Woman is a Man

Who is Fearless And

Complete; does not Matter,

IF He is 21 or 60, the Attraction FEELS THE SAME...

Didn't Need a Note Pad to figure this Out; Just What's Born Within; "Sugar Bear Save my Life"
Out of A Cocoon When Butterflies Fly Free to Be; Fly A Way someone saved my life... only me....

Even Greater
My Soul to
Wing

Dance

Sing

Again....

Personal

Responsibility Indeed...

Obviously the Rewards REAL

In Heaven on Earth for Succeeding
Are Not Limited, indeed, Beyond Any 'Suicide Bomber'/'John Nash Buddy' Fantasy...



Image


_________________
KATiE MiA FredericK!iI

Gravatar is one of the coolest things ever!! !

http://en.gravatar.com/katiemiafrederick


AngelRho
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04 Feb 2021, 12:55 pm

cubedemon6073 wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
cubedemon6073 wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
cubedemon6073 wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
cubedemon6073 wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
Cube: You have me confused with someone who feels he has to defend what he says. I’m not presenting an argument. Plus I don’t go digging for evidence that nobody else is going to believe anyway. If I know something, I say something. Academics and jurors argue evidence until someone gets tired of arguing and declares the last word the winner. Everyone else just lives life. In my experience, demands for evidence are just a tool for people to get out of believing something that is true.

I’ve answered your questions. What you do with that is your responsibility.


Another thing, I don't understand.

So, if you don't feel the need to defend what you say or believe nor presenting or defending an argument then why respond to anything I say at all? You could've just ignored the entire thread, passed it upon by and live your life like everyone else with Cranial-Rectal Embedment. What was your goal exactly? What was it that you were trying to accomplish?

And, like I said you answered nothing and gave the same conservative talking points without evidence or how you derived them. Only difference was you gave them in more sophisticated ways and more detail then the NT conservative but you said a lot and said nothing.

Your bias is showing through again. You’re unwilling to take me seriously. Why should I feel motivated to offer anything else if I’m just wasting time?

Someone who can be said to know a thing with certainty isn’t obligated nor compelled to defend his knowledge as though his knowledge ISN’T certain. I have no reason to accept your premise. Why should I? At this point you’re just repeating yourself, anyway. I’ve answered all your questions.


Let me ask you this like I've asked others with your thoughts. Do you want to pay for someone's welfare or disability check or do you want them productive people producing values for themselves or society? Do you want to pay for someone's three hots and a cot when they commit a crime b/c they believed prison was the only way they could survive? Like it or not you will be paying in some way if a person can't succeed on their own or feel like they can't succeed.

You’re just repeating yourself. Nothing useful can come out of this. You’ve already made up your mind. What’s the point of continuing this discussion? I’ve already answered these questions.


I can ask the same thing. If you say this is useless then why respond further? You must selfishly gain something or you would not even respond at all. You believe in the virtue of selfishness as per one of Rand's top tenets.

Most people regard selfishness as anything but a virtue. I think one of the most misunderstood points of objectivism is the virtuosity of selfishness. Objectivism does not consider ALL selfish thought or action to be virtuous. Greedy people, for example, mistakenly believe they are acting in their self interest when they insist on taking things they didn't earn...but nevertheless they might reasonably be said to be selfish people. Envious people, those who hate the achievements of others, might also be reasonably said to be selfish. Animals are instinctively selfish because they can only act to increase their chances of survival. There is nothing virtuous at all about acting on survival instinct.

Start with that and answer this question: If those manifestations of selfishness are not virtuous, what manifestations of selfishness WOULD be virtuous?


I'll bite. The ones that would bring the most benefit to the most people (preferably everyone) including yourself.

Almost. That leaves the question of why anyone should care about anyone else besides himself. For someone to conclude he should care about others AND be virtuous, the conclusion must first be a rational one.

"Love others as yourself." Sounds great, right? Probably most people love others without giving any thought to whether they SHOULD love others. But once you apply reason to "love others," you understand that you cannot love others UNLESS you love yourself. Only then does self-interest become a virtue. Selfishness without reason is no virtue. Altruism is self-hate, meaning you don't really love anyone. To love someone, you have to love yourself first. So if you would simply die for someone, anyone, no-questions-asked, it's not love. But if you do love someone, you've assigned that person a value. You want or desire that person. For yourself. Which means outward love is an expression of inward self-love and rationally selfish. If you were to give your life for someone you love, it is a rational decision, it is self-serving, and you are rewarded on some level for doing so. That's what makes rational self-interest virtuous selfishness.

Hopefully you see that I have already answered your question.

Same thing with regard to personal responsibility. Who else can you be held responsible to? All you have real control over are yourself and your response to circumstances. But the same has to be said for all other individuals, too. If someone claims you owe them something and you don't, then that makes them a liar. Conservatives don't OWE you any help. We don't HAVE to give you any answers. What you're missing is if people commit crimes and end up in prison, we cannot be bothered by that. Doesn't matter where the money is coming from. We're paying taxes to live in peace and to support a criminal justice system that serves to maintain that peace. And...by the way...what do you mean "three hots and a cot" for criminals? It's wasteful big-government policy that grants criminals a better standard of living than many low-income law-abiding citizens. If the predominant worldview was objectivism, those three hots and a cot you mentioned wouldn't even be in the conversation. I believe in forced labor for convicts so that if they are in the midst of repaying their debts to ME, at least they remain useful. It's a much more constructive alternative to incarceration. And if repeat, violent offenders ultimately get the death penalty, that's on them.

Your appeal to American corrections fails on the grounds that the system is built on a totally irrational foundation. There are more effective, judicious, and even merciful and compassionate ways of doing things that would render your idea of increased wasteful spending on the prison system totally moot. I would not dare accuse the American justice and corrections systems of actually being logical. The idea that people are entitled to a certain level of education and/or workforce training when the standard--YOUR standard--of education and training itself is a moving goalpost is likewise ridiculous.

You called for evidence a while back...I found this website that I thought was fascinating that reminded me of some points I made earlier. https://cheekyscientist.com

The concept (getting PhD's out of academia and into industry) is beautiful...absolutely BRILLIANT, and I'm not surprised in the least that a PhD came up with the idea. This is EXACTLY what I was talking about, and I had the good luck of finding this website. The main purpose of school is to prepare students for...more school, and those who populate university ranks are nowhere near prepared for ACTUAL job-jobs. If they'd never get their hands dirty doing the actual work they're training students for, how can students honestly prepare themselves for work in the field? There's no reason to actually trust many professors. Why even bother with conventional education? It's so obvious, yet it takes someone like Cheeky Scientist to credibly point this stuff out. So do I agree with you that our education system has failed on all levels? Yes, yes, I do! But now that we KNOW the system is inherently flawed, do you seriously expect agents of the system who you KNOW are corrupt to reverse course and reveal all the secrets to you, hold your hand, and MAKE you successful? The problem is that they are agents of a system that is itself corrupt, so it makes no logical sense that you're going to find answers there. Ok, so what about successful people themselves? Ok, but the problem there is they had to learn all this stuff on their own, discover new things along the way, and pass their knowledge on through books, mentoring, and public, motivational speaking. They've done what they can and gone above and beyond what they really should be expected to do. If you aren't going to accept their help and advice, exactly WHAT do you expect from them? Rationally, WHAT? You aren't happy with what you get, they aren't obligated to help you in the first place, so exactly where do we go from here?

We're right back where we started. You've already made up your mind. So what's left to say?



aghogday
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04 Feb 2021, 2:04 pm

^^^

"Altruism is self-hate, meaning you don't really love anyone."

Smiles my FRiEnD, if You Don't Understand That Altruism
Is Actually Self-Love We Feel And Sense and Are Driven to

Give to Others

You Are Obviously

Missing Why

Even

Bonobos
With No

Words Do It in the
First Place; There is

Obviously An Intrinsic
Reward in the Giving as

Again Science Shows It Provides
Months of Happiness for Folks
Capable of Feeling it Giving With No Expect of Return...

It's Biology;

It's A Fact;

It's Also A

Fact that Not All Folks

Experience The Feelings/Senses;
The Loving Feelings and Senses
That

Drive

Healthy
Bonobos
And Humans

To Give Altruistically this way..

It's Like the Priest at the Church
i visit; Suggesting Love is A Choice; Not a Feeling...

i suppose He's Never Met A Serial Killer Psychopath Before...

My Father Guarded Ted Bundy back in '78 Murdering all those
Women For His only Pleasure of the Pain He Brought to Others...

Born Without a Soul;

Where the Only

Music He

Heard within

Sounded Like

A Horror Movie to Him...

To Give and Share Even More Pain

For A Soul Without Wings Ever to Feel Love at all;

Indeed if there is an Original Sin one gifted by

God this way; Yes Nature... True, Perhaps A Better Way:

'A Surgeon' or 'Priest/Pope'...

or

Perhaps

Not Depending

On What operation

of Life is being Performed...

Anyway, Ted Bundy made the

Hair Raise up on the Arms of otherwise
Fearless Law Enforcement Officers as they Innately
Understood the Level of Danger they were around...

True, it Reminds me, when i lost my Soul too; desperately
Trying to Even Feel the Pet of a Beloved Cat as i Drew my

Hand Softly

To His Ears,

His Ears Peeled
Back in Fear as

Cats Will

Sense

When

Devils are near...

Trust me or not; i understand The 'Depth of the Story' of this FULL CONDITiON DarK

Thru LiGHT; And i understand that the person sitting next to 'us', may be one of 'them' too...

Not the Kind of Person, Ya wanna start a fight with, anywhere, where there is no one else around...

Nah, they
Won't
Escape

'my eye'

An exclusive club it is...

Yet as far as Truly Doing

'Right' When all Ya Can feel

Is someone else's Pain as close to
Pleasure or one's own Pain that exists...

Fortunately, A Moral Code Earned Will Say No in Truly only Terms of Logic...

Rationality; Yes That kind of rationality, is Not a Nice place at all to go (Hell)...

It's Well Beyond
What Science

Describes As Altruism

And Why It's Good that Churches

Still Exist; For Some Folks Love is a Choice....

Perhaps the Priests in Particular as Science Also

Show they are among the Top 10 Professions that

Do Check the Most Boxes of the Psychopathic Leaning Check list..

There are Even Signs in Written Language Devoid of all Colors of Emotion..

Mostly

In Terms

of Just

Bare Cause and
Effect As Observed Externally...
Lots of Focus on Food and Sex, And

Fighting... Basic Reptile Brain Drives...

When Something is Missing...

And True of Course this

Missing Part comes

Not Only from

Genetics; Yet

Through Neglect
And Abuse Across
the Lifespan in Social Ways of Life...

Yet it's True Psychopaths By Strict Genetic Definitions are Born Functionally
Disabled; it is no more Their Responsibility Than Nature's Reality of Dark and Light...

It's Hard to

Understsand

For Emotionally

Healthy Humans

Until they lose Their Soul
For Real; Quite A Revelation
of 'the Condition' From DarK to LiGHT iNdeed...


_________________
KATiE MiA FredericK!iI

Gravatar is one of the coolest things ever!! !

http://en.gravatar.com/katiemiafrederick


cubedemon6073
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04 Feb 2021, 9:04 pm

You called for evidence a while back...I found this website that I thought was fascinating that reminded me of some points I made earlier. https://cheekyscientist.com

Thank you for the link. It is much worse then I feared. I do have fallacies in my reasoning.

The problem of ignorant of being ignorant isn't just a younger gen problem. It affects parents and educators. Parents and teachers can't teach what I'm asking cause they think they know when they don't.

IMHO, I think parents should of disabled children should quit mainstreaming them and accept they're to disabled to be employed b/c of this and according to the bureau of labor statistics. https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/disabl.pdf



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05 Feb 2021, 6:55 am

cubedemon6073 wrote:
You called for evidence a while back...I found this website that I thought was fascinating that reminded me of some points I made earlier. https://cheekyscientist.com

Thank you for the link. It is much worse then I feared. I do have fallacies in my reasoning.

The problem of ignorant of being ignorant isn't just a younger gen problem. It affects parents and educators. Parents and teachers can't teach what I'm asking cause they think they know when they don't.

IMHO, I think parents should of disabled children should quit mainstreaming them and accept they're to disabled to be employed b/c of this and according to the bureau of labor statistics. https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/disabl.pdf

You get it!

Now...do understand that schools are useful because they do disseminate a lot of knowledge on a wide range of subjects. They just fail at connecting that knowledge with everyday life. If all I want to do is be an auto mechanic, how exactly do requires courses in Western Civilization and American History help me work on cars? They don’t, except they give you a glimpse into humanity and provide a way to understand and navigate politics. You’ll have a better grasp on what you’re hearing through guilds and unions about legislation that affects you. It’s the union that helps you network, get training, and connect you with job opportunities. Your school doesn’t help with that.

In my case, music theory goes a long way to revealing secrets about music I perform, teach, and compose by making those things predictable. It tells me nothing about what music I SHOULD select, nor does it connect me with good jobs. It’s my responsibility to figure all that out.

However, there are exceptions. The Berkeley College online extension program places an emphasis on career readiness. If you are a composer, you need to be familiar with music libraries and know how to connect with game developers and filmmakers. You also study under active musicians, people who actually have credits in film and tv composition and know firsthand how to make a living in this business. What they don’t do is do your work for you. YOU have to take those steps, be aggressive, and get placements.

I have mixed feelings on mainstreaming. It doesn’t work for everyone. You have too many parents who can’t face the fact that little precious just cannot function in a normal classroom. It’s a nightmare for teachers because teaching becomes more about accommodating one or two students than helping the average student. But at the same time disabled students do need to understand how to function in a society that includes them. I taught a girl with Down’s how to play clarinet. Wonderful little girl. But after about 3 weeks I realized she’d never get past the first three notes, so we just did our best. After she rotated out of my class, her parents approached me and proudly said “We have a FLUTE, and she thinks maybe she’d like to learn how to play that next time.” I was facepalming on the inside, but outside I kept smiling and agreeing. It wasn’t so much that they wanted her back in band that bothered me. It was they expected to switch instruments after only one semester. Regular band kids would NEVER be allowed that special privilege unless they were exceptionally good, meaning never, but she would get special treatment because she’s disabled.

And then sometimes a disability works in my favor. I have a soft spot for kids with albinism (long story). I taught at a school that didn’t allow retention in band. But then I got these parents that went all Karen on the school counselor to keep their girl in band during second semester due to a disability. This girl was shaping up to be my best ever flute player when the pandemic hit. Too bad albinism is as rare as it is, because I could really do stuff if I had more parents fighting the system like hers did.

As far as career readiness goes, I don’t stop with teaching music. I make sure students know their college and career options. Church pianists are increasingly rare, so I make sure kids who do play piano know how to reach out and find those jobs. They all need to know how to get into community bands and orchestras and start chamber groups. I have some kids who want to major in music, so I give them them inside information on the band directing world. I work with college kids for their observation hours and encourage them to come back for student teaching semesters, I connect people with the main job boards that get people hired. My field is extremely competitive. I can’t guarantee anyone’s success, but I don’t set them up for failure, either. But what makes me different from other teachers is I have a career OUTSIDE the classroom. I actually play at churches and get other gigs besides, I do volunteer work and travel. Teaching is seen as a secure job for musicians, but it’s only secure if you’re good at getting your contract renewed, which also means you’re good at playing politics with school officials and with parents. You enjoy skating on thin ice. If you are good at that and travel light, you can be a band director. I would rather point kids in the direction of regular performing rather than teaching because teaching often means you sacrifice performance. You do better to teach privately because you can make a ton of cash teaching 60-80 kids once a week in your spare time while you practice for gigs. I don’t really mind being a band director because it’s good exposure, and I’ve gotten more gigs that way. I have one senior who wants to be a band director who has strong prospects because he’s a percussionist...and percussion jobs are HOT right now. He wants my job, actually, and I’m trying to steer him in the direction of some of the bigger public schools where he could be an assistant and just teach what he wants. My other senior wants to major in entertainment studies, which I think would be his best option because there’s actual career prep in those kinds of degrees.

I guess my point is that there are programs out there that effectively teach what you’re looking for. You just don’t find them in conventional university programs. It takes a bit of digging. I suppose what you would do is look at different schools and find out whose graduates get hired the most in your field. When I was in school, anyone who WAS anyone in music education went to Delta State. But DSU became more about research and cut their funding to education, which means that more kids are going to Ole Miss, USM, Mississippi College, and William Carey U for music ed. Meanwhile, Mississippi State is attracting the best band students through bigger scholarships. It’s a good music school, too. But MSU’s schtick is agriculture. So all the Delta kids go there to study chemistry, soil analysis, entomology, and commercial aviation (flying drones). They’re all coming back to run daddy’s farm when they’re done. Ole Miss and MC have the premier law schools in the state, and UMC (also Ole Miss) is THE med school.

The more “usual” kinds of majors are like sociology, philosophy, history, language arts, math, physical science, etc. Ask my wife what you can do with a psychology degree. Computer and data science are hot jobs right now, yes, but you don’t get a semester of career prep. In education, you get a slough of ab psych, psych of exceptional children, ed psych, observation/field experience, CPR certification, etc. etc. You have to know everything ABOUT the public school classroom in theory and pass a lot of exams before you’re actually allowed into one. But you ARE eventually allowed into one. Required, actually. There’s no law that says you can’t make money coding while you’re in school. You even have college dropouts that make billions while actual graduates can’t even get a cashier job at Walmart. To do what I REALLY want to do I need a doctorate, and I’m not THAT interested.



cubedemon6073
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06 Feb 2021, 2:12 am

Quote:
Now...do understand that schools are useful because they do disseminate a lot of knowledge on a wide range of subjects. They just fail at connecting that knowledge with everyday life. If all I want to do is be an auto mechanic, how exactly do requires courses in Western Civilization and American History help me work on cars? They don’t, except they give you a glimpse into humanity and provide a way to understand and navigate politics. You’ll have a better grasp on what you’re hearing through guilds and unions about legislation that affects you. It’s the union that helps you network, get training, and connect you with job opportunities. Your school doesn’t help with that.


In my case, music theory goes a long way to revealing secrets about music I perform, teach, and compose by making those things predictable. It tells me nothing about what music I SHOULD select, nor does it connect me with good jobs. It’s my responsibility to figure all that out.


Here's the thing. If a person don't know about things like unions and guilds or even what to look up then how is it possible for them to take this responsibility? For me, I always thought guilds were a middle age thing. You can't research anything if you don't know what to research or ask or who to go to. This is why I'm more convinced then ever that those with disabilities especially mental are to disabled to be employed for the most part. In fact those with mental disabilities are not safe in the world at all especially when 1000s of laws are on the books and ignorance of the law is no excuse.

One example:

Quote:
I knew of someone who was 18 (male) at the time and was trying to get with a 15 (female) year old as in be boyfriend/girlfriend. He is only given a part of the story as to what a child molester and a pedophile is. In my state the age of consent 16. If you are a 18 and have sexual intercourse with a 15 year old that is considered statutory rape. If he does anything else it's considered child molestation. Even if he is 18 and she is 15 and there is a difference of 3 years. It's a minimum of 10 years in prison.

What do I mean he is only given part of the story. By both his parents and school programs like D.A.R.E. they make it seem like child molestation/pedophila is 30, 40, 50 year old's with young children age of six or so. This is true but there is more to it. The reason we're told this part as kids is to keep us safe. The kids know what to look for. Here is where the issue comes in. The 18 year old is ignorant of the full scope of what law actually says. He doesn't know that child molestation includes 18 year old/15 year old cases as well. He doesn't even realize a pedophile is one who is a person who is attracted to prepubescent children and not teenage children. This guy would be considered a child molester but not a pedophile.

His parents yell at him and berate him and in his mind his parents are making a deal of nothing. Yet, they're not and he doesn't realize it because he only sees the 3 year difference and what's the big deal? Why is there a big stink over this? Now, consider who this guy is. This is a socially awkward guy. He has a difficult time making friends, getting a girlfriend and years later it turns out this guy has Aspergers syndrome. And, his teenage hormones are still raging? He decides that what his parents were saying were BS and sets out to prove them wrong. And, the reasons why are a. There was a three year difference and b. he knew that for some crimes like murder the 15 year old girl can go to prison. D.A.R.E. in middle school told him this.

And, if she is adult enough to know the difference of right and wrong when it came to murder then she should know the difference between right and wrong to other things including sex and the consequences as well. He looks things up on the internet. Lo and behold they turned out to be right. He was so shocked and he does a 180 the whole thing seemed illogical and hypocritical.

I would love to ask these questions of D.A.R.E. and his parents.

Why wasn't he told the full scope of the laws in detail? Why wasn't he taught how to make friends and get a girlfriend? Why wasn't these social standards and laws ever covered and discussed? And, why can this 15 year old girl go to prison if she decided to kill this 18 year old male yet if this 18 year old male has sex with her he goes to prison? Why such inconsistent standards?


Quote:
However, there are exceptions. The Berkeley College online extension program places an emphasis on career readiness. If you are a composer, you need to be familiar with music libraries and know how to connect with game developers and filmmakers. You also study under active musicians, people who actually have credits in film and tv composition and know firsthand how to make a living in this business. What they don’t do is do your work for you. YOU have to take those steps, be aggressive, and get placements.


Aggressive as in be violent? HELL NO! I would go to prison for aggravated assault.


Quote:
I have mixed feelings on mainstreaming. It doesn’t work for everyone. You have too many parents who can’t face the fact that little precious just cannot function in a normal classroom. It’s a nightmare for teachers because teaching becomes more about accommodating one or two students than helping the average student. But at the same time disabled students do need to understand how to function in a society that includes them. I taught a girl with Down’s how to play clarinet. Wonderful little girl. But after about 3 weeks I realized she’d never get past the first three notes, so we just did our best. After she rotated out of my class, her parents approached me and proudly said “We have a FLUTE, and she thinks maybe she’d like to learn how to play that next time.” I was facepalming on the inside, but outside I kept smiling and agreeing. It wasn’t so much that they wanted her back in band that bothered me. It was they expected to switch instruments after only one semester. Regular band kids would NEVER be allowed that special privilege unless they were exceptionally good, meaning never, but she would get special treatment because she’s disabled.


When I mean mainstreaming I mean functioning in society independently.

Quote:
And then sometimes a disability works in my favor. I have a soft spot for kids with albinism (long story). I taught at a school that didn’t allow retention in band. But then I got these parents that went all Karen on the school counselor to keep their girl in band during second semester due to a disability. This girl was shaping up to be my best ever flute player when the pandemic hit. Too bad albinism is as rare as it is, because I could really do stuff if I had more parents fighting the system like hers did.


please tell the story

Quote:
As far as career readiness goes, I don’t stop with teaching music. I make sure students know their college and career options. Church pianists are increasingly rare, so I make sure kids who do play piano know how to reach out and find those jobs. They all need to know how to get into community bands and orchestras and start chamber groups. I have some kids who want to major in music, so I give them them inside information on the band directing world. I work with college kids for their observation hours and encourage them to come back for student teaching semesters, I connect people with the main job boards that get people hired. My field is extremely competitive. I can’t guarantee anyone’s success, but I don’t set them up for failure, either. But what makes me different from other teachers is I have a career OUTSIDE the classroom. I actually play at churches and get other gigs besides, I do volunteer work and travel. Teaching is seen as a secure job for musicians, but it’s only secure if you’re good at getting your contract renewed, which also means you’re good at playing politics with school officials and with parents. You enjoy skating on thin ice. If you are good at that and travel light, you can be a band director. I would rather point kids in the direction of regular performing rather than teaching because teaching often means you sacrifice performance. You do better to teach privately because you can make a ton of cash teaching 60-80 kids once a week in your spare time while you practice for gigs. I don’t really mind being a band director because it’s good exposure, and I’ve gotten more gigs that way. I have one senior who wants to be a band director who has strong prospects because he’s a percussionist...and percussion jobs are HOT right now. He wants my job, actually, and I’m trying to steer him in the direction of some of the bigger public schools where he could be an assistant and just teach what he wants. My other senior wants to major in entertainment studies, which I think would be his best option because there’s actual career prep in those kinds of degrees.


Amazing! I want to hear more. One thing I don't get. How is it possible not being able to guarantee one's success but not set up anyone for failure?

Quote:
I guess my point is that there are programs out there that effectively teach what you’re looking for. You just don’t find them in conventional university programs. It takes a bit of digging. I suppose what you would do is look at different schools and find out whose graduates get hired the most in your field.


And a high school grad is expected to do this and know how. How?

Quote:
When I was in school, anyone who WAS anyone in music education went to Delta State. But DSU became more about research and cut their funding to education, which means that more kids are going to Ole Miss, USM, Mississippi College, and William Carey U for music ed. Meanwhile, Mississippi State is attracting the best band students through bigger scholarships. It’s a good music school, too. But MSU’s schtick is agriculture. So all the Delta kids go there to study chemistry, soil analysis, entomology, and commercial aviation (flying drones). They’re all coming back to run daddy’s farm when they’re done. Ole Miss and MC have the premier law schools in the state, and UMC (also Ole Miss) is THE med school.


cool

Quote:
The more “usual” kinds of majors are like sociology, philosophy, history, language arts, math, physical science, etc. Ask my wife what you can do with a psychology degree.


Ok, angelrho's wife what can you do?

Quote:
Computer and data science are hot jobs right now, yes, but you don’t get a semester of career prep.


If it is such a hot field as claimed then why do I and others have difficulty in getting a career in it? If it was a truly in demand hot field then it wouldn't be demanding all of these experience requirements.

Quote:
In education, you get a slough of ab psych, psych of exceptional children, ed psych, observation/field experience, CPR certification, etc. etc. You have to know everything ABOUT the public school classroom in theory and pass a lot of exams before you’re actually allowed into one. But you ARE eventually allowed into one. Required, actually. There’s no law that says you can’t make money coding while you’re in school. You even have college dropouts that make billions while actual graduates can’t even get a cashier job at Walmart. To do what I REALLY want to do I need a doctorate, and I’m not THAT interested.


Yet, I'm teaching IT at a private school in China in spite of my negative attitude, can't do and not having to do all that. Strange how the universe aligns itself if that is what it does. If there is a God I guess God works in mysterious ways. He can take the most stubborn man who can be an as*hole at times (me) and make it work out for him. Honestly I think all the jobs I had in my past God gave them to me.



Phoenix20
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06 Feb 2021, 2:37 am

Some people use their disability as a way of getting what they want and work the system like the following scenario:

"I once knew a chap, at the time we were friends, but because of this and a number of other reasons, we’re no longer speaking.

He and I both received diagnoses for Asperger’s (which still existed then) - mine being marginally more severe - but we responded in different ways.

He went into the testing almost determined to get diagnosed with something. I went in wondering what would happen, and whether the results would give me any answers to questions I’ve had about myself since I was a toddler.

He got what he “wanted” - his first act upon receiving the diagnosis was to research how much free stuff and special exemptions he could get himself.

He was very open and honest that he was doing this. He openly mocked the system that looked out for him, because he was going to make “the man” work for him.

"But, my Asperger’s!” became a mantra.

He didn’t get another job - he searched for a little while but couldn’t understand why, as a man with no experience and no qualifications, he had to start in an entry level position. He considered himself a genius and thought they he should begin at the top.

After evading “get a job” pressure from me and from other friends, he took out a large student loan because he said he wanted to get a degree in engineering (in actuality, he just wanted to move to Brighton to get drunk and have sex) so off he went, and he attended one class, told his professor that she was an imbecile and that the classes were “beneath him”, and never went back.

He squandered the loan money on beer and kitting out his pathetic rusty Ford Fiesta with a floor-shaking sound system. Then, it was discovered that he never attended University, and the Student Loan Company started proceedings to get the money back - which he’d spent.

“But, my Asperger’s, I have a disability!” he said at the age of 29, and his father paid off all his debt. Now his father is almost bankrupt and his mother is descending into depression. Meanwhile, he sleeps in until midday, watches Star Trek, and yells at his mother when she asks him to contribute some money towards the rent - which he still doesn’t, aged 32. (His mother is still friends with mine, so there is some news throughput - but not direct.)

It was an utter disgrace - and far from being ashamed, or feeling guilty - he was overjoyed - he’d found a way to beat the system, and to get more in exchange for less."

https://www.quora.com/My-new-flat-mate- ... utism-work



cubedemon6073
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06 Feb 2021, 3:15 am

Phoenix20 wrote:
Some people use their disability as a way of getting what they want and work the system like the following scenario:

"I once knew a chap, at the time we were friends, but because of this and a number of other reasons, we’re no longer speaking.

He and I both received diagnoses for Asperger’s (which still existed then) - mine being marginally more severe - but we responded in different ways.

He went into the testing almost determined to get diagnosed with something. I went in wondering what would happen, and whether the results would give me any answers to questions I’ve had about myself since I was a toddler.

He got what he “wanted” - his first act upon receiving the diagnosis was to research how much free stuff and special exemptions he could get himself.

He was very open and honest that he was doing this. He openly mocked the system that looked out for him, because he was going to make “the man” work for him.

"But, my Asperger’s!” became a mantra.

He didn’t get another job - he searched for a little while but couldn’t understand why, as a man with no experience and no qualifications, he had to start in an entry level position. He considered himself a genius and thought they he should begin at the top.

After evading “get a job” pressure from me and from other friends, he took out a large student loan because he said he wanted to get a degree in engineering (in actuality, he just wanted to move to Brighton to get drunk and have sex) so off he went, and he attended one class, told his professor that she was an imbecile and that the classes were “beneath him”, and never went back.

He squandered the loan money on beer and kitting out his pathetic rusty Ford Fiesta with a floor-shaking sound system. Then, it was discovered that he never attended University, and the Student Loan Company started proceedings to get the money back - which he’d spent.

“But, my Asperger’s, I have a disability!” he said at the age of 29, and his father paid off all his debt. Now his father is almost bankrupt and his mother is descending into depression. Meanwhile, he sleeps in until midday, watches Star Trek, and yells at his mother when she asks him to contribute some money towards the rent - which he still doesn’t, aged 32. (His mother is still friends with mine, so there is some news throughput - but not direct.)

It was an utter disgrace - and far from being ashamed, or feeling guilty - he was overjoyed - he’d found a way to beat the system, and to get more in exchange for less."

https://www.quora.com/My-new-flat-mate- ... utism-work


I would never in a million years to ever think to do anything like this. It's so difficult to imagine there are ppl like this. But, I'm not talking about guys like him. I'm talking about those who went to college and took it seriously. These ppl already had jobs that were gained by a miracle of God. But, when they tried to get a job and do search on their own it was like going through a bunch of alice's rabbit holes that made no sense to them so had to claim disability in the end or welfare. College was no party or beer keg central. This was a guy who kept to himself and took college seriously.



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06 Feb 2021, 7:04 am

Personal responsibility while not a guarantee is not a crock. It increases your odds of success significantly.


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cubedemon6073
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06 Feb 2021, 1:51 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Personal responsibility while not a guarantee is not a crock. It increases your odds of success significantly.


It is if omniscience is demanded of you.