Page 1 of 3 [ 45 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

KT67
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 6 May 2019
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,807

17 Dec 2020, 7:37 am

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/ ... f-23182270

So the kids in a developed nation need to rely on charity rather than tax funded meals.

But it's a 'disgrace' for them to receive that charity.

'Decrease the surplus population' indeed, Mr Mogg.


_________________
Not actually a girl
He/him


magz
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jun 2017
Age: 39
Gender: Female
Posts: 16,283
Location: Poland

17 Dec 2020, 7:57 am

It's possible the UNICEF initiative was rather a message to the British than actual action.
If so, apparently Mr Mogg didn't get the message.


_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.

<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>


Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Age: 67
Gender: Male
Posts: 59,831
Location: Stendec

17 Dec 2020, 10:28 am

Well, of course the Right likes charity ... as long as it is being provided by someone else.


_________________
 
No love for Hamas, Hezbollah, Iranian Leadership, Islamic Jihad, other Islamic terrorist groups, OR their supporters and sympathizers.


magz
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jun 2017
Age: 39
Gender: Female
Posts: 16,283
Location: Poland

17 Dec 2020, 10:32 am

Fnord wrote:
Well, of course the Right likes charity ... as long as it is being provided by someone else.

In this case, it is 8O


_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.

<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>


madbutnotmad
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 20 Nov 2016
Age: 51
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,678
Location: Jersey UK

17 Dec 2020, 10:39 am

decrease the surplus population
cull the masses
ethnic cleansing

hmm think we have heard all this before



Nades
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 8 Jan 2017
Age: 1933
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,806
Location: wales

17 Dec 2020, 1:15 pm

To be fair the UK is pretty generous with benefits so there is no need for kids to go hungry. It's capped at 20k a year per household outside of London which is more than enough if you also have a job on the go.....which people should if they have kids. If you earn over a certain amount then the already generous cap doesn't even apply anymore.

Benefits were only capped because they regularly exceeded average salary and were getting obscene to the point of causing discontent among a large proportion of the British population. Mogg was right, it was purely political and a suspiciously low amount of money if kids were genuinely starving.

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/c ... eport.html

https://www.gov.uk/benefit-cap/benefit-cap-amounts

https://www.gov.uk/benefit-cap/when-youre-not-affected



Mona Pereth
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Sep 2018
Gender: Female
Posts: 7,811
Location: New York City (Queens)

17 Dec 2020, 4:43 pm

Nades wrote:
Mogg was right, it was purely political

What does UNICEF stand to gain, politically?


_________________
- Autistic in NYC - Resources and new ideas for the autistic adult community in the New York City metro area.
- Autistic peer-led groups (via text-based chat, currently) led or facilitated by members of the Autistic Peer Leadership Group.
- My Twitter / "X" (new as of 2021)


Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Age: 67
Gender: Male
Posts: 59,831
Location: Stendec

17 Dec 2020, 4:52 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:
Nades wrote:
Mogg was right, it was purely political
What does UNICEF stand to gain, politically?
A voice in the financial decisions made by the United Nations General Assembly.

In 2019, UNICEF’s total income was US$6.4 billion (100%)..

The public sector contributed the largest share: US$4.74 billion (74%)
• Government, inter-governmental and inter-organizational partners, as well as Global Programme Partnerships.

The private sector contributed US$1.45 billion (23%).
• National Committees, UNICEF Country Office fundraising, and non-governmental organizations.

Other contributions total US$210 Million (3%).

Total Spent: US$145,939,848 (2.3%)

So where did the remaining US$6.25 BILLION (97.7%) go?


:?


_________________
 
No love for Hamas, Hezbollah, Iranian Leadership, Islamic Jihad, other Islamic terrorist groups, OR their supporters and sympathizers.


Last edited by Fnord on 17 Dec 2020, 5:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Nades
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 8 Jan 2017
Age: 1933
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,806
Location: wales

17 Dec 2020, 5:09 pm

Fnord wrote:
Mona Pereth wrote:
Nades wrote:
Mogg was right, it was purely political
What does UNICEF stand to gain, politically?
A voice in the financial decisions made by the United Nations General Assembly.


And the nature of a lot of charities being anti-capitalist in stance anyway.

If a family needs food provided to them via a charity after the UK's perfectly reasonable household benefits then they should consider not smoking through 50 a day. Most people I know who live in poverty blows an astronomical amount on cigarettes and booze. I stopped visiting one family after 7 of them were smoking in the living room with a child who had a new lease of life as a smoked kipper. Me and the 3 year old child were the only ones not smoking.



League_Girl
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Feb 2010
Gender: Female
Posts: 27,205
Location: Pacific Northwest

17 Dec 2020, 5:56 pm

This sounds less conservative for us Americans. It isn't that they are against charities feeding the hungry children, they are upset that it had come to this and that the country had somehow let this happen where families are too poor to afford food for their kids to keep them full.

Conservatives here in America would want those kids to go hungry and blame it on the parents and say they are too lazy and that they shouldn't have had kids. Yeah, like we should punish the children.


_________________
Son: Diagnosed w/anxiety and ADHD. Also academic delayed.

Daughter: NT, no diagnoses.


KT67
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 6 May 2019
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,807

17 Dec 2020, 6:13 pm

Nades wrote:
To be fair the UK is pretty generous with benefits so there is no need for kids to go hungry. It's capped at 20k a year per household outside of London which is more than enough if you also have a job on the go.....which people should if they have kids. If you earn over a certain amount then the already generous cap doesn't even apply anymore.

Benefits were only capped because they regularly exceeded average salary and were getting obscene to the point of causing discontent among a large proportion of the British population. Mogg was right, it was purely political and a suspiciously low amount of money if kids were genuinely starving.

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/c ... eport.html

https://www.gov.uk/benefit-cap/benefit-cap-amounts

https://www.gov.uk/benefit-cap/when-youre-not-affected


So - don't have kids unless you are 100% certain that you will not lose your job for 18 years +?

A lot of jobs are being lost atm during the pandemic.


_________________
Not actually a girl
He/him


League_Girl
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Feb 2010
Gender: Female
Posts: 27,205
Location: Pacific Northwest

17 Dec 2020, 6:25 pm

Don't forget that you may become disabled later in life or a divorce can happen or your partner decides to walk out on you and your kids. Oh no, you should have gotten yourself prepared for this and save save save. But guess what, no one would have kids if everyone followed this faulty logic. The human population would have eventually died off and who will take care of the elderly?


_________________
Son: Diagnosed w/anxiety and ADHD. Also academic delayed.

Daughter: NT, no diagnoses.


KT67
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 6 May 2019
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,807

17 Dec 2020, 7:23 pm

If someone had a crystal ball and were able to 100% tell if they were going to work all their kid's childhood or not, I would still not be in favour of the kid going hungry if they couldn't provide for the kid. Whether that alternative is government, charity, other family members, neighbours etc is up for debate. The kid going hungry shouldn't be an option. It's never the kid's fault.

But such crystal balls don't exist.

Only thing different if such things did exist would be that in that case I'd want the kids taken off them because yes, if you think it's unlikely you'll get a job, it is irresponsible to have kids.

Free school meals are provided in school. That means outside of a pandemic, it's easy to monitor unless it's the school holidays. Just provide food then parents have no ability to for eg fund addictions if that's really what's making their family's poor. Or offer food vouchers like the Americans do.

Too severe an alcohol/drug addiction, kids probably are best off not with that particular parent. I've seen that and it's not a nice situation for the kid. It's an in between case with tobacco/weed because in that case the kid's not in immediate danger but it's still not responsible to do that stuff around kids. But I've known a lot more kids on free school dinners who had decent parents who for one reason or another either had low wages or couldn't work or were between jobs.


_________________
Not actually a girl
He/him


CockneyRebel
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Jul 2004
Age: 49
Gender: Male
Posts: 113,522
Location: Stalag 13

18 Dec 2020, 12:59 am

I like organizations that align to my values.


_________________
Who wants to adopt a Sweet Pea?


Nades
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 8 Jan 2017
Age: 1933
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,806
Location: wales

18 Dec 2020, 2:42 am

KT67 wrote:
If someone had a crystal ball and were able to 100% tell if they were going to work all their kid's childhood or not, I would still not be in favour of the kid going hungry if they couldn't provide for the kid. Whether that alternative is government, charity, other family members, neighbours etc is up for debate. The kid going hungry shouldn't be an option. It's never the kid's fault.

But such crystal balls don't exist.

Only thing different if such things did exist would be that in that case I'd want the kids taken off them because yes, if you think it's unlikely you'll get a job, it is irresponsible to have kids.

Free school meals are provided in school. That means outside of a pandemic, it's easy to monitor unless it's the school holidays. Just provide food then parents have no ability to for eg fund addictions if that's really what's making their family's poor. Or offer food vouchers like the Americans do.

Too severe an alcohol/drug addiction, kids probably are best off not with that particular parent. I've seen that and it's not a nice situation for the kid. It's an in between case with tobacco/weed because in that case the kid's not in immediate danger but it's still not responsible to do that stuff around kids. But I've known a lot more kids on free school dinners who had decent parents who for one reason or another either had low wages or couldn't work or were between jobs.


I think all responsible parents should save up a buffer to allow them to transition to state aid. It only needs to be a few months of pay and all the help is avaliable if they need it. If a parent is unable to do that then they shouldn't have had kids. Most people know if they are capable of getting themselves a job that allows them to save that buffer.

Food stamps are by far the best. A lot of the reason why savings fail to materialise is because money is blown on booze and tobacco. I've seen it so many times I'm numb to it now. Food stamps will ensure money can't be frittered away and food stamps should be given to the individual that needs them regardless of age.

As for job losses or disability, savings will give a good safety net until they get benefits. They do indeed need to save save save in some instances but that's what everyone should be doing kids or not. There's an aversion to saving that has developed in my generation. The mentality of blowing every penny and hoping the state will save them the exact day they lose their jobs is and always has been dangerous.



League_Girl
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Feb 2010
Gender: Female
Posts: 27,205
Location: Pacific Northwest

18 Dec 2020, 2:46 am

But the thing is, no one will ever be able to save save save enough for a situation that could happen. Savings runs out.


_________________
Son: Diagnosed w/anxiety and ADHD. Also academic delayed.

Daughter: NT, no diagnoses.