Antifa vs Capitol Hill
12 Jan 2021, 3:29 pm
ironpony wrote:
Well it's hard to say, because if it was antifa, they would want to try to pin it on Trump supporters and try to make themselves look like Trump supporters to not be noticed as Antifa, wouldn't they?
No, it is easy to say, because if it was antifa (or any other group) there would be valid, empirical evidence linking them to the crime ... like pictures of the participants and videos of the participants bragging about taking part.
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12 Jan 2021, 3:41 pm
ironpony wrote:
Oh okay does antifa have a policy to take credit for their crimes, rather than try to pin it on their enemies?
Why don't you find an actual member of antifa and ask them? Really, start looking for the real antifa and report back to us with your findings.You will likely find that there is no formal "Antifa" -- only a loose association of people who hate fascism and communicate with each other -- unlike those people who wear MAGA hats, wave "Trump" banners, and brag on social media about how their organization is going to terrorize those who support the democratic process.
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12 Jan 2021, 4:53 pm
ironpony wrote:
Well it's hard to say, because if it was antifa, they would want to try to pin it on Trump supporters and try to make themselves look like Trump supporters to not be noticed as Antifa, wouldn't they?
And if it was clandestine radioactive aliens from Proxima Centauri B, they would want to try to pin it on Trump supporters and try to make themselves look like Trump supporters to not be noticed as clandestine radioactive aliens from Proxima Centauri B.
12 Jan 2021, 5:32 pm
GGPViper wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Well it's hard to say, because if it was antifa, they would want to try to pin it on Trump supporters and try to make themselves look like Trump supporters to not be noticed as Antifa, wouldn't they?
And if it was clandestine radioactive aliens from Proxima Centauri B, they would want to try to pin it on Trump supporters and try to make themselves look like Trump supporters to not be noticed as clandestine radioactive aliens from Proxima Centauri B._________________
ASPartOfMe
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13 Jan 2021, 7:19 am
Your Rioters Are Worse Than Our Rioters
Quote:
A lot of people seem very keen on litigating whether the attack on the Capitol was worse than last summer’s rioting. That says something depressing about political polarization in this country.
In one corner you have riots — connected to protests against police violence, especially the appalling death of George Floyd and the more complicated shooting of Jacob Blake — that destroyed businesses in cities across the country. This caused upwards of a billion dollars in damage, and if past is precedent, the places that suffered the riots will take years to recover economically.
In the other corner, you have a storming of the nation’s legislature, which interrupted the counting of Electoral College votes, on the false grounds that the election was stolen. Five people died, including a police officer, and the building was ransacked. And things could have gotten much worse: Two explosive devices were found nearby, and some rioters had zip ties.
Sure, you can have a scintillating late-night dorm-room discussion about how to weigh the rioters’ purported political motivations, the damage they did, the respective police responses, and the behavior of elites who should have known better. But in the end, these were both failures at all levels, and our first priority should be to make sure neither happens again, rather than to score partisan points.
In one corner you have riots — connected to protests against police violence, especially the appalling death of George Floyd and the more complicated shooting of Jacob Blake — that destroyed businesses in cities across the country. This caused upwards of a billion dollars in damage, and if past is precedent, the places that suffered the riots will take years to recover economically.
In the other corner, you have a storming of the nation’s legislature, which interrupted the counting of Electoral College votes, on the false grounds that the election was stolen. Five people died, including a police officer, and the building was ransacked. And things could have gotten much worse: Two explosive devices were found nearby, and some rioters had zip ties.
Sure, you can have a scintillating late-night dorm-room discussion about how to weigh the rioters’ purported political motivations, the damage they did, the respective police responses, and the behavior of elites who should have known better. But in the end, these were both failures at all levels, and our first priority should be to make sure neither happens again, rather than to score partisan points.
Guilty as charged. In fact I am going to do a bit of it of it below.
The riots during the summer where people tried to storm police stations and torched federal buildings were also insurrections. The were lesser insurrections, much lesser insurrections . As bad as they were they were not attempting to murder, put on trail elected officials.. They were not the worst act of internal rebellion since the civil war.
What they were not were mostly peaceful protests, they were insurrections.
I could argue that the storming of the capital was a mostly peaceful protest. Most of the people at that rally did not breech and trash the capital but stayed outside waving their Trump flags. Yet I have not heard anybody call 1/6 a mostly peaceful protest and you sure as hell won't get me to say that. Nor are you going to get me to say the summer riots were mostly peaceful protests.
While the authors goal making sure riots don’t happen again is laudable it can not happen if peaceful people on both sides keep making these comparisons and gaslighting the other side. I don’t care how many people yell mostly peaceful protest, there is something to see there. MAGA’s, I have news for you Antifa while disgusting is a few hundred people. Get real, if antifa tried to infiltrate 1/6 they would have been beaten to a pulp.
The truth is literally most BLM protests were peaceful or stated out peaceful as before being taken over by troublemakers as was the case with most(not 1/6) MAGA protests.
What we have is not only cycles of violence, but cycles of radicalization.This has led many truly peaceful people to excuse and minimize the toxicity of people that agree with them. This is just going to get worse and worse if we keep letting our anxiety, fear, and disgust with what the worst of the other side is doing let us on minimize the meta sizing cancer on our side and to ignore that this virus has clouded our judgement.
The author while premature is very correct on one important point. Obsessive scorecarding does not help, it hurts.
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DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity
It is Autism Acceptance Month
“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman
16 Jan 2021, 6:24 pm
Fnord wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Well it's hard to say, because if it was antifa, they would want to try to pin it on Trump supporters and try to make themselves look like Trump supporters to not be noticed as Antifa, wouldn't they?
No, it is easy to say, because if it was antifa (or any other group) there would be valid, empirical evidence linking them to the crime ... like pictures of the participants and videos of the participants bragging about taking part.This is the most entry-level conspiracy theorist logic out there.
"Of course the evidence points away to conspiracy! That's how you know it's a conspiracy! The lack of evidence in support of my argument only strengthens my argument!"
The more the evidence suggests they are wrong, the more certain they become that they are right and that the evidence is just falsified.
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I guess I just wasn't made for these times.
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Δυνατὰ δὲ οἱ προύχοντες πράσσουσι καὶ οἱ ἀσθενεῖς ξυγχωροῦσιν.
Those with power do what their power permits, and the weak can only acquiesce.
- Thucydides
ASPartOfMe
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17 Jan 2021, 6:44 am
ironpony wrote:
The problem with peaceful protests is that they often turn into violence because of some people there who use it as an opportunity. It seems like peaceful protests will almost always lead to violence and that the term peaceful protest is an oxymoron.
Most peaceful protests remain that way. Those tend not to make the news beyond the very local media.
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Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity
It is Autism Acceptance Month
“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman
