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IsabellaLinton
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13 Jun 2021, 11:56 pm

BeaArthur wrote:
An additional meaning for spinster besides spinner of wool or old maid, is simply a never married woman. In my genealogy studies, marriage registers at one time listed a woman as spinster or widow (this was before divorce was common) and men as bachelor or widower. In other words, spinster had come to mean a never married woman of any age - could be 18, she was still a spinster.

Just a little factoid for everyone's enlightenment.


Illustrated by a wedding certificate from my family: :P

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BeaArthur
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14 Jun 2021, 6:04 am

Yes! Perfect example. Thanks, Isabella.


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14 Jun 2021, 9:57 am

Whale_Tuune wrote:
Heterosexual relationships will always be unbalanced and tainted with possible sexism and misogyny. That's why women have such a hard time... so many guys are sexist pigs...

Wow. Well, I guess I won't be introducing you to any of my bachelor friends.


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hurtloam
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14 Jun 2021, 2:37 pm

BeaArthur wrote:
An additional meaning for spinster besides spinner of wool or old maid, is simply a never married woman. In my genealogy studies, marriage registers at one time listed a woman as spinster or widow (this was before divorce was common) and men as bachelor or widower. In other words, spinster had come to mean a never married woman of any age - could be 18, she was still a spinster.

Just a little factoid for everyone's enlightenment.


That's the only definition I knew of before reading the article I posted a link to.

The word always made me think of cobwebs and Miss Haversham living in her dusty house.

I remember my friend in the late 90s complaining about it being such a horrible word and it was unfair that unmarried men can be called bachelors instead.



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14 Jun 2021, 6:40 pm

hurtloam wrote:
I remember my friend in the late 90s complaining about it being such a horrible word and it was unfair that unmarried men can be called bachelors instead.

That was before the coinage of the word "bachelorette." :roll:


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IsabellaLinton
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14 Jun 2021, 6:47 pm

It's unfortunate that the word "bachelor" came to suggest that a man is young, available and a good catch. Somehow being male and unattached always had a more desirable ring to it than "spinster" did for women, even if they were young, available, and a good catch too.

Obviously, that's the point of this thread. ^ :wink:

I know some young women who chose to have their Bachelor's degrees issued as "Baccalaureate" degrees, to avoid the use of patriarchal terminology.

What are your opinions on that?

(I'm wondering how men would feel earning "Spinster's" degrees, if degrees were named for young and studious women?)



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15 Jun 2021, 5:35 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:
(I'm wondering how men would feel earning "Spinster's" degrees, if degrees were named for young and studious women?)

This man would probably feel proud to earn that degree as I would associate it in that context with an earned honor not the other pejorative meaning.

The term “Bachelor Degree” does not seemed to be named for the young single obnoxious man living in a messy apartment associated with the term “bachelor” today.
History of Academic Degrees


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SharonB
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16 Jun 2021, 11:48 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:
It's unfortunate that the word "bachelor" came to suggest that a man is young, available and a good catch. Somehow being male and unattached always had a more desirable ring to it than "spinster" did for women, even if they were young, available, and a good catch too.

Obviously, that's the point of this thread. ^ :wink:

I know some young women who chose to have their Bachelor's degrees issued as "Baccalaureate" degrees, to avoid the use of patriarchal terminology.

What are your opinions on that?

(I'm wondering how men would feel earning "Spinster's" degrees, if degrees were named for young and studious women?)


I wish I had known to do that. Last year I made a similar point on a women's career forum and people didn't get it. They gave a similar link to above - it's origin rather than it's impact. It's frustrating for me when people take "what is" for granted and can't see the (polluted) water they swim in.

It's similar to Spanish: a lot of positive, strong, individual terms are masculine (el bueno = good, el leon = lion, el policia = a man of the law) and many negative, weak or group terms are feminine (la pena = bad, la oveja = sheep, la policia = people of the law). It's "just" the way it is. Nevermind the unconscious negative impact. Grrrr.

@Whale_Tuune's, thankfully "pig" is masculine in Spanish, so they got that right. :wink: It may seem harsh, but objectively in my husband's culture not far off: he and his male relatives overeat more than the women. And they will eat anything. Big, strong boys. :twisted: . Teasing / TMI: Cow heart at ambient temperature from the open bazaar - bring it on, dude! I don't think a proper spinster would do that and she would save herself two days lying on the couch with repeat visits to the bathroom.

@BeaArthur, it's a rare individual who can see the water they swim in. So many well-meaning people unknowingly (or not) do harm, including myself at times. My well-meaning misogynist bosses had no clue they were THAT misogynist. The difference is that the sexist man I found to be my husband is willing to see the water, while many men (and women) are not (or can't?). Heck, I've caught myself being sexist. It helps that my husband is from another culture, so it was easier for him to see the idiosyncrasies of mine. Still, like Whale I am also too aware of the pervasive misogyny/misandry.