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mohsart
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04 Feb 2021, 7:55 am

I'm very cautious not to appear pretentious, and chose very carefully what I say and to who.
I have heard that it is quite common for intellectuals (not calling myself one) to have a fear of "getting caught" pretending they know more than they acually do.

/Mats


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Abstract_Logic
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04 Feb 2021, 11:01 am

mohsart wrote:
I'm very cautious not to appear pretentious, and chose very carefully what I say and to who.
I have heard that it is quite common for intellectuals (not calling myself one) to have a fear of "getting caught" pretending they know more than they acually do.

/Mats


I think most people with advanced degrees in an academic area have a fear of appearing like they think they know more than they actually do, and I think most of them are aware of when they sound more confident than they are. Communication styles, personality factors, social signaling, political bias, and other factors that are often enemies of truth notwithstanding.

I only have a bachelor of science degree, but academia and intellectualism are still important to me. My communication style tends to be formal when talking about things in a serious context, and it's pretty likely that others have found this pretentious when they are immersed in a culture that doesn't value intellectualism, because it goes against the grain of what they are used to experiencing and what they less-culpably expect to experience. I don't know if this is what they think, but I try to use correct spelling and consistent grammar because it is pleasing to me and I believe in communication standards, not because "I'm trying to look all smart and s**t". I am more lenient with others when it comes to spelling and grammar, as long as the point they are making is clearly communicated. Also, my own spelling and grammar are rarely if ever perfect, and while I might have more skill with English than some, there are probably a ton of nuances that I'm ignorant of.

For the record, I have shared memes and such that poke fun at common spelling and grammar mistakes, but it has always been in an ironically pedantic sort of way. It's possible that people have taken those seriously and thought that it was pretentious of me.


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Abstract_Logic
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04 Feb 2021, 11:58 pm

Abstract_Logic wrote:
I think I probably come across as pretentious sometimes when I've argued/debated people online. I've been so immersed in an 'educated culture' that frowns on grammar and spelling errors that I don't even think about whether it comes across as pretentious to people who don't value that sort of thing. I can imagine that it is possible for this to have been taken as a challenge to someone I may have responded to on Facebook, and in response to the perceived challenge they start making more overt digs at me and I had no idea why. (I have found myself in a situation a few times before where people have responded to me that way and I thought "that was nit-picky and uncalled for, what the heck was that about?")


What I mean by this my own use of good spelling and grammar, in that it could be seen by others as pretentious or "showy". I don't go around correcting peoples' grammar like some uptight nazi unless I felt it would be mutually understood as ironic pedantry.


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Summer_Twilight
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05 Feb 2021, 11:20 am

During most of my 20s, I used to work at a warehouse as part of a "Supported employment program" and I was one of the few people there pursuing a higher education. My superiors and co-workers all thought that ever since I had gotten into school, I had seemed to put on heirs and was suddenly so much more superior to everyone else.

Then another time, when I first moved out, I experimented giving myself a very short haircut in which my co-worker also accused me of having a mental problem. I told one of them, "It's not being creative," he came back with "You're such a snob."



Abstract_Logic
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11 Feb 2021, 7:48 pm

KT67 wrote:
Is being called pretentious when you're just doing normal stuff you happen to enjoy a common thing for HFA people?

Technically pretentious = putting on airs and graces or showing off for the sake of it.

I don't do that. But I'm honest about things I enjoy.

And people call me pretentious for that.

Just for enjoying things like the theatre or post modern literature or James Joyce or whatever.


I generally think of pretense as putting on an air of superiority about a thing. I've done pretentious things before, but am slowly coming to appreciate that other people like dumb things things that make them happy, and that the world would be a happier place if they can be allowed to like those things without being criticized. I used to be such a snob about black coffee, open source software, secular humanism, and eco-socialism. In my late 20s to the present (I'm 32), I've realized that the world is much more of a gray area than I used to believe. I credit this to my university education. Sometimes I kind of yearn for the world to be more black and white, because oh(!) how much easier life would be if that were the case--particularly when it comes to ethics and norms. But I'm sure that a more black/white world has some undesirable implications which I don't feel like thinking of right now.

For what it's worth, and for the record, there are some things that I simply consider to be facts but which are regrettably hot-button political issues. For example, any kind of human rights I consider to be "self-evident" in the 1776 sense. I realize that this now requires a whole essay on why I think they are "self-evident".


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MidnightRose
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12 Feb 2021, 1:23 am

As a teenager I definitely made a couple people think that I had a huge ego, or that I thought I was always right. Ironically, I have always been very self critical. But I definitely used to concern myself more with being right than being polite. I mean, you know how it is with special interests. You've spent a lot of time thinking about and feel deeply connected to certain things. So if you get in an argument about them you passionately argue for your position. I would accidentally come off as quite rude and blunt. I would act superior because I viewed my position as superior.

And then I would often criticize people's grammar or use of logical fallacies. If you do that stuff directly you come off as the kind of person that polices others' speech. I can generally stop myself now and say things in a way that's a bit less antagonistic. Other times the use of the word "pretentious" is just an exercise in anti-intellectualism, they just want to shut you down without addressing your arguments. I think I stop any accusations of pretension now by using a lot of self effacing humor. Especially when I say something that sounds a little too high minded.



Abstract_Logic
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12 Feb 2021, 11:02 am

MidnightRose wrote:
As a teenager I definitely made a couple people think that I had a huge ego, or that I thought I was always right. Ironically, I have always been very self critical. But I definitely used to concern myself more with being right than being polite. I mean, you know how it is with special interests. You've spent a lot of time thinking about and feel deeply connected to certain things. So if you get in an argument about them you passionately argue for your position. I would accidentally come off as quite rude and blunt. I would act superior because I viewed my position as superior.

And then I would often criticize people's grammar or use of logical fallacies. If you do that stuff directly you come off as the kind of person that polices others' speech. I can generally stop myself now and say things in a way that's a bit less antagonistic. Other times the use of the word "pretentious" is just an exercise in anti-intellectualism, they just want to shut you down without addressing your arguments. I think I stop any accusations of pretension now by using a lot of self effacing humor. Especially when I say something that sounds a little too high minded.


Interesting. Yeah, I've had plenty of ego moments. I still do in fact, but it's easier to let go of it nowadays because I feel like I love myself more, and it's also easier to not do/say things that would make people think I have a huge ego. But yeah, in retrospect it's always been from a place of self-criticism ironically. In the past, if I said something wrong on social media, and someone corrected me or otherwise disagreed with me, my cognition was something like: "They are probably right, but if I don't defend rationalize my original point then it necessarily means I'm the biggest idiot in the world, and I don't want to be the biggest idiot in the world." The thought/feeling process wasn't explicit like that, but I had enough self-awareness at the time to be able to recall in retrospect how I thought/felt. And even more weirdly is that many of my "high-minded" posts were also from a place of self-criticism, in that they were motivated by a desire to show others how intelligent and insightful I am, as vain as that is. Maybe some of the things I said had some insight, but most of them were more of an attempt to show others that I'm intelligent and insightful, which made me lose sight of having an actually good argument/idea. I wouldn't be surprised if this came across as narcissistic at times.

I seem to have this neurosis regarding being/feeling stupid. I can genuinely empathize with Fredo Corleone in the Godfather Part 2 when he yells at Michael, in a New York accent, "I'm smaht!" (Interestingly, Fredo, like me, also suffered from pneumonia as an newborn infant, as shown in one scene in Part 2). I can retrospectively trace this neurosis back to at least 8th grade; it was a major part of my self-loathing cognition.


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