highly gifted IQ and above : Question

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love2connect
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02 Feb 2021, 2:34 pm

QuantumChemist wrote:
This can be tricky to answer, as AS is a spectrum. People can be affected differently simply because they are different from one another. Not everyone has the same traits, so it may be an apples to oranges comparison. I will give you my story.

I had an IQ test done in my youth (3rd grade). It showed that I was in the highly to extraordinary gifted levels. The school had never seen someone like me before. My reading comprehension at the time was equal to a high school graduate. By middle school, I was at graduate school level and by high school I was at post doctoral level in reading/understanding. My science, history and math abilities were always very strong when compared to others in my class level. But all was not well. It can be very lonely when you are so different from everyone around you.

Many teachers were confused on what to do with me because I was too advanced for the material in most of my classes, yet was socially behind by about two years from everyone else. I was severely bullied due to this issue. Autism at the time was only though of in severe cases. Aspergers was not defined at that point in time (1980s). After graduating with my PhD, I set out to understand why I was so unusual. I did not self-identify until I was in my 40s. I always knew I was different, but could not put my finger on why.

I have certain abilities that are very high level, but I do not think of them to be savant. One of them involves being able to do extreme mental visualizations. It allows me to “see” inside of particles to understand how they are formed and put together with energy. (Nikola Tesla had a similar ability with electrical devices. He could run simulations of experiments in his mind and fix problems before drawing them out on paper.) I often use my visualization ability to understand how the universe is made. But, not everything is easy. It sucks to not be able to describe to my friends some of what I know as it goes above their ability to comprehend. That can cause me to become depressed at times. What good is the ability if it cannot be shared?

My experiences probably cannot answer the question as well as you would like. Sorry about that, I am only one human in a world of different people.


Hello QuantumChemist!
I have been confused because I have similar experiences. I can dive very deeply and imagine physics equations working in real time and apply it to my consciousness which gives me insight to how things may actually be in this world.

I am 27 now. It seems my Heart has self-identified with ASD last night and I got very confused as to why it did that. I had suspicions about ASD for a long time but let it go eventually.
A diagnosis from a professional is absolutely not needed for me anymore, as I have learned how to cope through very rough experiences, a diagnosis would be futile in terms of usefulness.



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02 Feb 2021, 3:29 pm

One IQ test placed me in the upper 2%.  After that, the only "encouragement" I ever heard was "If you're so smart, then why can't you..." followed by some form of social behavior that I was never good at.

I was a social pariah unless someone needed me to help with their homework (e.g., needed me to do their homework for them) or we were choosing teams for a trivia contest (my team always won but I never got to keep the trophy).

At least I was smart enough to realize my need to get out of that environment, and to determine a way to do it.


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Double Retired
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02 Feb 2021, 4:49 pm

magz wrote:
Double Retired wrote:
magz wrote:
...coping - not so much.
Wouldn't intelligence be useful in finding ways to work around the gaps in your capabilities?

In short run - yes. My husband even claims my workarounds for dyspraxia are achievement of my intelligence.
In long run - at the cost of mental health. You're navigating a minefield every waking hour of your life.
Maybe in the long medium run, when you realize how many "gaps in your capabilities" haven't been worked around and you care about that. After a time, though, I stopped caring so much--at some level I decided I was OK and it was the world around me that was wrong. Later I learned about the spectrum and that I was on it--I really was on the "Wrong Planet"!

My viewpoint on this lead me to an odd, nonstandard, incorrect personal conclusion about the puzzle-pattern associated with Autism. I thought it was an appropriate symbol for my impression of the world and allistics: I thought they were a bit puzzling! It also entertained me when I first looked up what the colors were for awareness ribbons for my bride's ADHD and my being on the spectrum. I told her the color for ADHD awareness ribbons was orange; she then asked me "What's the color for autism awareness ribbons?" I enjoyed responding "It's complicated."

P.S. I encourage anyone with an IQ in the top 2% of the population to consider joining Mensa. It's just a social group for folk with that difference...with no assertion of superiority, just similarity--I suppose it's a little like WP in that sense.


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love2connect
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02 Feb 2021, 5:14 pm

Double Retired wrote:
magz wrote:
Double Retired wrote:
magz wrote:
...coping - not so much.
Wouldn't intelligence be useful in finding ways to work around the gaps in your capabilities?

In short run - yes. My husband even claims my workarounds for dyspraxia are achievement of my intelligence.
In long run - at the cost of mental health. You're navigating a minefield every waking hour of your life.
Maybe in the long medium run, when you realize how many "gaps in your capabilities" haven't been worked around and you care about that. After a time, though, I stopped caring so much--at some level I decided I was OK and it was the world around me that was wrong. Later I learned about the spectrum and that I was on it--I really was on the "Wrong Planet"!

My viewpoint on this lead me to an odd, nonstandard, incorrect personal conclusion about the puzzle-pattern associated with Autism. I thought it was an appropriate symbol for my impression of the world and allistics: I thought they were a bit puzzling! It also entertained me when I first looked up what the colors were for awareness ribbons for my bride's ADHD and my being on the spectrum. I told her the color for ADHD awareness ribbons was orange; she then asked me "What's the color for autism awareness ribbons?" I enjoyed responding "It's complicated."

P.S. I encourage anyone with an IQ in the top 2% of the population to consider joining Mensa. It's just a social group for folk with that difference...with no assertion of superiority, just similarity--I suppose it's a little like WP in that sense.



I am included in that quota in the top 2%. The thing is, basically all my childhood friends are, because we all went to gifted and highly gifted schools together. Yet, I still cannot get along. Yeh.



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02 Feb 2021, 5:30 pm

QuantumChemist wrote:
It sucks to not be able to describe to my friends some of what I know as it goes above their ability to comprehend. That can cause me to become depressed at times. What good is the ability if it cannot be shared?
.

One of my frustrating projects has been to get about half the engineers who need to use the Froude equations to use them, even though the other half do so routinely. Ocean freighters should be getting about 20% better mileage, but nobody wants to rock the boat.



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02 Feb 2021, 5:37 pm

Dear_one wrote:
QuantumChemist wrote:
It sucks to not be able to describe to my friends some of what I know as it goes above their ability to comprehend. That can cause me to become depressed at times. What good is the ability if it cannot be shared?
One of my frustrating projects has been to get about half the engineers who need to use the Froude equations to use them, even though the other half do so routinely. Ocean freighters should be getting about 20% better mileage, but nobody wants to rock the boat.
Punning noted.

:wink:

Trying to get the junior engineers to use Smith Charts for impedance matching instead of "Tuning to Minimum Smoke" is a similar chore -- they seem to be doing it with increasing frequency.


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02 Feb 2021, 9:34 pm

I guess being some level of genuinely gifted has its good and bad points. I just have a Ratner level mind that gets mistaken for medium level Cartier sometimes.


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QuantumChemist
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03 Feb 2021, 12:52 am

love2connect wrote:
QuantumChemist wrote:
This can be tricky to answer, as AS is a spectrum. People can be affected differently simply because they are different from one another. Not everyone has the same traits, so it may be an apples to oranges comparison. I will give you my story.

I had an IQ test done in my youth (3rd grade). It showed that I was in the highly to extraordinary gifted levels. The school had never seen someone like me before. My reading comprehension at the time was equal to a high school graduate. By middle school, I was at graduate school level and by high school I was at post doctoral level in reading/understanding. My science, history and math abilities were always very strong when compared to others in my class level. But all was not well. It can be very lonely when you are so different from everyone around you.

Many teachers were confused on what to do with me because I was too advanced for the material in most of my classes, yet was socially behind by about two years from everyone else. I was severely bullied due to this issue. Autism at the time was only though of in severe cases. Aspergers was not defined at that point in time (1980s). After graduating with my PhD, I set out to understand why I was so unusual. I did not self-identify until I was in my 40s. I always knew I was different, but could not put my finger on why.

I have certain abilities that are very high level, but I do not think of them to be savant. One of them involves being able to do extreme mental visualizations. It allows me to “see” inside of particles to understand how they are formed and put together with energy. (Nikola Tesla had a similar ability with electrical devices. He could run simulations of experiments in his mind and fix problems before drawing them out on paper.) I often use my visualization ability to understand how the universe is made. But, not everything is easy. It sucks to not be able to describe to my friends some of what I know as it goes above their ability to comprehend. That can cause me to become depressed at times. What good is the ability if it cannot be shared?

My experiences probably cannot answer the question as well as you would like. Sorry about that, I am only one human in a world of different people.


Hello QuantumChemist!
I have been confused because I have similar experiences. I can dive very deeply and imagine physics equations working in real time and apply it to my consciousness which gives me insight to how things may actually be in this world.

I am 27 now. It seems my Heart has self-identified with ASD last night and I got very confused as to why it did that. I had suspicions about ASD for a long time but let it go eventually.
A diagnosis from a professional is absolutely not needed for me anymore, as I have learned how to cope through very rough experiences, a diagnosis would be futile in terms of usefulness.


I am happy to hear that you accepted yourself. I had a much harder time getting to that point at first. It took years before I could see myself as something other than just a collection of flaws.

As for my life, I did not get a professional diagnosis because it would not really do much for me except cost thousands to do. It would actually be detrimental to my career, as other would think less of me because of it. My coworkers have made fun of those on the spectrum. I have had to learn to camouflage some of my abilities from them and to mask at a high level just to get by. But, that comes at a psychological cost. I hate being something that I am not just to “fit in” to survive. That is a curse that never ends.



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03 Feb 2021, 3:13 am

firemonkey wrote:
I guess being some level of genuinely gifted has its good and bad points. I just have a Ratner level mind that gets mistaken for medium level Cartier sometimes.

What are these?


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03 Feb 2021, 3:18 am

Double Retired wrote:
magz wrote:
Double Retired wrote:
magz wrote:
...coping - not so much.
Wouldn't intelligence be useful in finding ways to work around the gaps in your capabilities?

In short run - yes. My husband even claims my workarounds for dyspraxia are achievement of my intelligence.
In long run - at the cost of mental health. You're navigating a minefield every waking hour of your life.
Maybe in the long medium run, when you realize how many "gaps in your capabilities" haven't been worked around and you care about that. After a time, though, I stopped caring so much--at some level I decided I was OK and it was the world around me that was wrong. Later I learned about the spectrum and that I was on it--I really was on the "Wrong Planet"!

My viewpoint on this lead me to an odd, nonstandard, incorrect personal conclusion about the puzzle-pattern associated with Autism. I thought it was an appropriate symbol for my impression of the world and allistics: I thought they were a bit puzzling! It also entertained me when I first looked up what the colors were for awareness ribbons for my bride's ADHD and my being on the spectrum. I told her the color for ADHD awareness ribbons was orange; she then asked me "What's the color for autism awareness ribbons?" I enjoyed responding "It's complicated."

P.S. I encourage anyone with an IQ in the top 2% of the population to consider joining Mensa. It's just a social group for folk with that difference...with no assertion of superiority, just similarity--I suppose it's a little like WP in that sense.
It was a focal point in my therapy when I started to admit the possibility that sometimes there may be something wrong with others, not me. It took me a few years to get there.

Since adolescence, I had a strange drive to self-express as eccentric. Now I think I understand why. I needed any rest from masking.


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03 Feb 2021, 3:24 am

Dear_one wrote:
Using IQ to substitute for EQ uses up all the IQ and then produces the answer far too late for it to be useful. IQ can be used to "game the system" but that conflicts with the honesty and integrity that come from being confused and assuming that people would not further confuse the issues with lies, just mistakes. Instead, IQ can do what it does best, to enjoy life in private, and just minimize attempts to communicate. Glen Gould could be an example - he gave up playing concerts to focus on studio masterpieces.



You posted what I was thinking. There is a few traits that can be measured
non-verbal memory - almost all people with ASD do well on this measure
IQ- on its own is not a measure for success but Aspies do well on this measure
EQ - ability to regulated emotion is essential to cope with stressful situations (Aspies struggle with this one)
AQ - ability to adapt to change (I'm afraid Aspies don't do well at all in AQ)

There is an additional measure called SI or social intelligence which I think almost everyone on WP would have a challenge scoring high on. This measure is really important if you want to succeed in NT workplaces.



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03 Feb 2021, 3:25 am

Brands of watches, I believe. A Cartier is a luxury brand of watch.



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03 Feb 2021, 3:36 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Brands of watches, I believe. A Cartier is a luxury brand of watch.

Thanks. I'm completely ignorant on such things.


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03 Feb 2021, 3:38 am

magz wrote:
firemonkey wrote:
I guess being some level of genuinely gifted has its good and bad points. I just have a Ratner level mind that gets mistaken for medium level Cartier sometimes.

What are these?


Ratner was known for cheap, not too good quality jewellery and watches. Cartier is known for selling high class jewellery and watches.


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Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 133 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 47 of 200
You are very likely neurodiverse (Aspie)


magz
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03 Feb 2021, 4:06 am

firemonkey wrote:
magz wrote:
firemonkey wrote:
I guess being some level of genuinely gifted has its good and bad points. I just have a Ratner level mind that gets mistaken for medium level Cartier sometimes.
What are these?
Ratner was known for cheap, not too good quality jewellery and watches. Cartier is known for selling high class jewellery and watches.

I never thought of minds in these terms. I rather view them as a vast variety, useful or not for different purposes.
I think I generally prefer to think in terms of niches, not hierarchies. It feels safer and more welcoming to me.


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03 Feb 2021, 5:00 am

Double Retired wrote:
magz wrote:
...coping - not so much.
Wouldn't intelligence be useful in finding ways to work around the gaps in your capabilities?


Scoring high on IQ tests does not correlate with the ability to DO anything in life other than having the ability to do will on IQ tests.

Some high IQ aspies do figure out certain people skills, others (as pointed out above) get stuck in a rut showing off how smart they are....which amounts to working against themselves, because doing that constantly just drives most folks away.