NT conversations = competition?

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I got the sense in A Field Guide to Earthlings that a lot of NT conversation is somehow competitive in one way or another.

Either it is a battle for hierarchy or it is a competition for it - like when cats are unsettled in their hierarchies - or it is an establishment of teams in order to be hierarchical together.

Mum says that isn't true and that we should be quiet when the neighbour asks us to rather than trying to assert dominance over the neighbours through making sure our noise drowns out their noise.

I don't want to be rude if there's no competition but I also want to be the dominant party if there is a competition. Spent too long kowtowing to the wishes of others: I'd rather get respect than give it.

I know my upstairs neighbour when I was a kid wanted me to be completely submissive to him. That's where I get a lot of my assumptions from. But this is a nicer neighbourhood & they're nice people, unlike him.

Maybe some conversations re a competition. I only just realised when you brought it up. Wow, I need to think on this.

As the resident NT I can say it can be both. Social intelligence (SI) requires the ability to discern when the person you are communicating with is doing one or the other or both.

I don't think most conversations are a competition, but I'm also autistic and the aspect of "competition" might just be flying right over my head. Maybe if you could give examples of a conversation or two that you think are a "competition" it'd be helpful, as maybe I'm just taking that too literally.

In my experience I think the majority of NT conversations are a competition ( almost like double speak but more subtle ) but I try not to think about it otherwise I would get sucked into a game that I can't win with rules that change the instant I start winning - stuff that for a game of toy soldiers.

I don't think conversations are a competition. There are 2 NTs having a conversation right next to me as I'm writing this post and I don't see competition in it. They're exchanging facts to each other about something to do with work.

It's more subtle egs in conversations which would otherwise be neutral.

So, the dominant party gets to always have the last word.
Or the dominant party is the one the other one gets out of the way for when they pass in a street.*
The dominant party's conversation isn't 'boring', jokes are always 'funny' etc - even when it's objectively not true.
The dominant party gets to choose what's on TV.
The dominant party gets to take up more space.
The volume of the dominant party is the volume at which it becomes 'speech' not 'shouting' and 'speech' not 'whispering under your breath'.
The dominant party gets to trash talk the other people and it be considered 'banter' not 'bullying' or 'ridiculous'
The sexy guy in a basic 'we don't have much' situation: the tough guy. The sexy guy in a more 'civilised' context: the rich guy. Not cos he can dominate the woman - she doesn't want that - but cos he can dominate any other man who wants to hurt her.

In most of life, this is settled. Either officially (boss, teacher, police officer) or with unwritten rules (parent, older friend, more powerful buddy). When it isn't, stuff gets competitive.

Esp between groups so for eg if I meet a rival fan I have to be the one who shouts the loudest or he is. Who ends the conversation or he does. If he shouts loudest and speaks most, he wins. Same in politics etc.

Guard drops when you actually love the person. Then, either authority doesn't matter or it's matched with a sort of 'looking after'. You look after your kid/grandkid/pet so they offer you respect and you have authority over them for their sake as much as yours: looking out for them with rules to keep them safe.

* I'm surprised autistic people don't do this one cos it's not just our species who do it. Top cats do it. Top cat gets right of way to the food bowl/bin/through the alley, esp between two toms or between pets who are well fed.

There's also posturing. NTs like hearing the sound of their own voice or hearing other people's voices responding to them.

I too like talking and hearing other people's voices responding to me.

I don't think it's fair to just generalise how NTs communicate with exaggerated or skewed views. Most of the time people talk to each other to bond and/or exchange information to each other. I do it too.
If there is competition involved then it's usually an argument.

Yeah, I agree with that.

To add to the fun, I think men and women often play this game in different ways.

It is important to be able to recognise such behaviour and work out when it's happening and when it isn't. With NTs I get the impression this largely happens subconsciously, but I'm guessing many ASD people either don't notice at all or have to deliberately work it all out, which isn't easy in real time.

You can go too far the other way, too. I think I come across as confrontational sometimes because I'm not prepared to take any sh1t from anyone any more. It's actually a defensive reaction to [perceived] manipulation, but I'm possibly a bit too easily triggered. Plus because I don't have the skills to react subtly, I'm the one who normally ends up in the doghouse. The way most of these mind games play out is through a series of little adjustments, tiny jabs and parries. Coming straight out and saying, "I'm not playing your game, pack it in" is simply not the done thing.

Sounds awfully cocky and brave but a lot of the time I'm simply making trouble for myself, and not because I particularly want to dominate a situation but just because I want everyone to leave me alone.

My point is that there are numerous reasons why NTs have conversations and many of the needs are concurrent. The bonding is in relation to reinforce social bonds (agreed) and exchanging information also is a functional purpose behind conversations (even gossip).

There is also the need to create a convivial atmosphere/ambience, I have been in shops or in queues and people feel the need to break an awkward silence or tension by making a comment to start a conversation.

For eg I look young for my age and my stepdad has a normal car.

I was out with my stepdad at the supermarket pre lockdown.

This guy with a fancy car left his car over the white line. I accidentally knocked the door against it.

Guy: "You knocked my car!"
Me: "It was parked over the line. Besides, it was an accident"
Guy gets angry...
Stepdad calms him down
Guy admits he was in the wrong but has to have the last word so says: "Yeah well she was cheeky"

Now if any of these elements were different, things would have been different:
1 If I was a cis guy. Cis boys are treated with a bit of fear once they meet the mid-teenage age. Not respect, just physical fear.
2 If I looked my age. 31 yos aren't 'cheeky'. Cheeky implies child. If he had seen me as an adult, even as a woman, he wouldn't have used that word or had those thoughts of being cheeked by a 15 yo.
3 If his car was crap. If he had a crap car then he wouldn't moan about it so much because he'd view himself as less important than us rather than more important.
4 If our car was better than his car - cos again it's all relative so see 3.
5 If my dad was there rather than my stepdad. Argumentative people can't do the submissive bit so can't smooth things over. It would become a fight.
6 Tbh if I was on my own cos it would be a hot button issue - I hate people assuming I'm a teenager and being prejudiced against me on that basis. And I can be argumentative like my dad if a hot button issue is pressed.

My stepdad is submissive af and I've seen him be rolled over all his life. If he was in my dad's position starting out, he would never have got anywhere. My dad is stubborn. Sometimes it bites him in the butt. But sometimes it's great - like he's so stubborn he has a masters despite having no qualifications from the secondary schools he went to. He's from a really crap background but did all right for himself in life before he got ill again.

If my stepdad is in a restaurant, they can take an hour and he won't complain, they can serve the food cold, he won't complain, they can give meat to a vegetarian, he won't complain. If my dad is asked 'are you enjoying your meal' or 'is pepsi ok rather than coke' or I'm given a kid's menu in front of my dad, he kicks off. I feel like the 'right' answer is somewhere in the middle. I feel like mum wants me to be like my stepdad in order to be less confrontational so there's less of a fuss.

Ohh, I get what you are saying now. I guess I do see examples of that often.


I think I subconsciously do this to a degree. I always let people who are an "authority" over me eat first and decide what to do. I can add this behaviour to the list of reasons I think humans are just glorified chimpanzees. lol

Probably, he might have thought twice if you were bigger than him


Cheeky means he thought you were younger than him and trying to be smart mouthed


People can be that shallow but its probably more about his fancy car getting scratched, he was too up himself to notice he parked over the line


yep see 3


Doesn't your stepdad stick up for you?


Yep cis-NT males would feel they are entitled to say something if you look like a teen-girl

A lot of NT conversation is about asserting superiority. Though I know this, it often escapes me in the moment and I'm surprised when people get insulted and angry when I correct their errors or just casually display superior knowledge of a subject. I'm not playing the competition game myself, just getting the facts straight

Not necessarily. Conversation between colleagues and friends is rarely hierarchical unless it pertains to something one party is more conversant/skilled/knowledgable about.