Autism and the Covid Vaccination: anyone been vaccinated?

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Wow - thanks for the descriptions. I like the "warm, brick red mental cloud". I'd like to try that one!

I'm glad you're feeling better and you've returned to Planet Earth Wrong.

The night of my daughter's Pfizer she said she felt "Starving, stupid, and stoned".

I see they've been figuring out the effectiveness of a couple of the vaccines against a couple of the new variants. It seems that a single jab gives somewhat poor protection, and for 2 jabs:
"The Pfizer vaccine was found to be 88% effective at stopping symptomatic disease from the Indian variant two weeks after the second dose, compared with 93% effectiveness against the Kent variant. The AstraZeneca jab was 60% effective against the Indian variant, compared with 66% against the Kent variant."
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-57214596
The article seems to conclude that both vaccines are great, but to my uneducated mind, looking at the numbers I'd say AZ was somewhat weak. 60% effective isn't what I'd call "very reassuring" as they put it. I've noticed before what looks a little like pro-AZ bias in the subjective part of BBC and government reporting, and I can see possible motives for it.

It would be interesting to see how the Johnson and Johnson vaccine performs against variants, as that one has so far been given as a single dose.

A separate study concluded that mixing vaccines makes the side effects worse without (if I remember right) improving the protection. So if anybody has had one shot of AZ, that might influence any wish to switch to Pfizer or Moderna, even assuming they'd get their wish.

For me, the only thing that helps against brain fog + fatigue is a good coffee and an anti-inflammatory.
I haven't tested yet whether aspirin or ibuprofen works better. Usually it's just whichever one I can get my hands on when I need it.

If a large enough portion of the population got a vaccine, though, might that be enough to prevent the virus from overrunning the population? (I forget what percentage effectiveness vs. what percentage of the population they were initially hoping for.)

Usually, 70-75% of a given population vaccinated is considered enough for "herd immunity."

60% efficacy in vaccines is usually considered sufficient; though, of course, I prefer something like 90% efficacy.

Every virus has a property describing it ability to infect people and spread which is termed R0. In estimating R0 considerable care is needed to eliminate the human factor.

An equation features in virology courses and immunology courses which gives an estimate of the proportion of a population needing to be immune in order to prevent uncontroled spred, which is P=1-1/R0 where P is the fraxtion which needs to be immune.

So if a virus has an R0 of 3 which is one of the estimates for SarsCoV2, P = 1-1/3, which is 2/3, or 66.6666 %

Measles has an R0 which has estimates as high as 15, giving P = 93%

Yes, from an epidemiological point of view AZ would no doubt help to get the R number down and thus be useful to a degree, and of course the health professionals and the government have to see it from that perspective. Though I don't see them saying "let's divert more resources into vaccinating with the ones that work best." And at the rate they're trying to remove lockdown restrictions, they're effectively still sentencing some people to death. I appreciate that they can't get it perfect, and it's a complicated ethical and logical problem. I'd have preferred it if they'd locked down more promptly and completely at the start, and if they'd taken the view that if the free market couldn't cope with that, to consider suspending the free market in favour of a command economy where production and distribution was done according to need and there wasn't all this absurd dependency of human happiness on sales figures.

But like I say, it's a complicated debate. My remarks about how reassuring the numbers are in the vaccine research were from the point of view of the individual, in terms of how it would be for me if I had this or that vaccine, in terms of the degree of protection I'd get. Of course there's a bigger picture, but I don't think there's much conflict between my interests and the world's interests. It's in my interests to render myself safe from catching the virus, and in doing so I'll render the world safe from catching it from me. Like most people, I put my own interests first, but given the interconnected nature of everything, I can't logically ignore the world's interests, and like most people (I hope), emotionally I wouldn't want to.

At least since Fauci admitted they lied to us about masks (they told us they didn't do any good because they thought we might steal them off the healthcare workers), I've been mindful of how their political interests can lead them into telling us lies. I don't wish to particularly demonise them for lying, just that personally I want accurate information, and I tend to speak out when I see evidence that they're still fudging things. It's possibly a good thing that I don't get to talk to the whole world.

Last edited by ToughDiamond on 24 May 2021, 3:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I think there's a big problem with getting accurate estimates of the R values etc., though I think the equation you've supplied is useful. It gets very hard to be sure of much - I've seen arguments about the apparent relatively poor effectiveness of the AZ vaccine (from earlier figures) that say they weren't comparing like with like, and I had to admit those arguments might be correct. It's just that every time they've tested AZ against the others, it's come out as less effective and (slightly) more dangerous, but how to get from those numbers to the actual difference in the balance of risks and benefits for an individual who wants to choose which vaccine to get, or the actual difference in the effectiveness in eradicating the virus in the general population, I don't know. But it looks pretty clear that AZ and J&J are inferior vaccines - the only question is, to what degree are they inferior in real terms? If they're not significantly different, it would be a bad move to reject them, waste all those supplies and slow down the rate at which people are being jabbed. OTOH, an individual trying to be picky about which vaccine they accepted might be sent to the back of the line, or sent away completely, in many countries. In the USA you can shop around. In the UK, not so much.

And if everyone was getting a 60% effective vaccine...it sounds like it would be hard to get to 66.6666%.

the person had legit fears and is no trumpy anti vaxxer,

your posts replying to them have been simplistic, preachy, and verging on bullying,

till this one Im quoting. wtf ?....

I will not take any vaccination, no matter what BS govt comes with.

I am against ALL vaccinations and refuse to take them.

Then stay away from me! I don't want to catch anything from you.

My friend, vaccination will not prevent you from catching the coof. There are countried that lock down because of cases among the vaccinatred. I am hikikomori so I only go out to get supplies anyway.

I am not against vaccinations against Covid in fact I support them for ppl at risk thats is the way we can end the pandemic.

I am aware about that vaccine reduces hoaspitalizations and deaths so why not return to normal?

States loves the powers they obtained during the crisis like emperor palpatine. They should be stripped of such powers and return to normal.

Refusing the covid vaccines is your choice.  When the last sounds you hear are those of the ventilator struggling in vain to keep you alive, at least you will know that you die with your freedom and integrity intact.

I am not trivializing the disease. In fact my mom +32 years on me had it and she wasn't even hospitalized.

In my country the avg age of deaths is 84.

The coronavirus can wreak havoc on you if you are unhealthy so you should get vaccinated if ou are in such condition.

ps. i am willing to volunteer on a vaccination drive if vaccinations are needed.

Before I caught Covid, I was the healthiest I've ever been in my life.

Now I'm 21+ months Long Covid.