Do women have a bigger issue with honesty than men?

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1 If a guy has problems with 'lgbt style feminism' he probably doesn't deserve honesty or the companionship of anyone other than cis het men.
2 Women are socialised to lie for the sake of nicety so, probably
3 Women also lie for the sake of safety so if she feels unsafe, she's not going to be 100% upfront
4 Can't expect someone to be 100% upfront unless you are, too
5 If a guy talks about how he's against feminism & lgbt rights, can't blame someone for being cautious around him

"Alluding to" wanting to meet in person does not necessarily mean that the person saying this intends to meet in person immediately. A lot of people are really tired of lockdown, even while still understanding that it's still necessary. Simply voicing frustration at being unable to meet in person does not constitute a statement of intent to violate social distancing rules.

What, more precisely, did she say, that led you to believe she intended to plan immediate (rather than eventual) in-person meetings?

It's difficult to say definitively because then it's easy to give the benefit of the doubt due to possible "margin for error" but like I said, posting something that says "How come no one wants to make music these days?" (not in general but during the current time period) and then responding to someone else saying that musicians are everywhere with "but no one ever ends up actually meeting up" really makes it sound that she was wondering why no one's meeting up presently. At least that's what it sounds like to me but tbh, you could have a point and maybe I misread it. Truth is, I thought there was the possibility that I was overthinking it, which is why I tried to give her the benefit of the doubt and contacted her.


Whether it was "his place" or not, his remark might have led her to realize that perhaps other people, too, might be interpreting her remarks as an announcement of intent to meet with people before the end of lockdown. That being the case, why shouldn't she clarify her intent, if indeed that's not what she meant?


You might have a point here if she and the "completely random stranger" were the only people in on the conversation. However, given that the conversation was being witnessed by a whole bunch of other people including you, it's only natural that she would want to clear up any confusion.

I really don't understand why you perceive a lie here. You seem absolutely determined to assume the worst.


However, she would have no way of knowing that she is seeing "everything" unless you accepted her friend request.

You might feel that she is being unduly nosy. But this would mean only that you and she have an incompatibility in your respective getting-to-know-people polices, not that she is lying.

This is much less defendable... there's already so much content on my profile visible that even if she *wasn't * seeing everything, she'd have no reason to. What was she looking for exactly, videos of me raping and killing women? No one needs to see everything on someone's profile to get a sense of whether that person is who they claim to be (not that I claimed to be anyone in the first place). There's over a dozen videos of me drumming, so unless that's actually someone else, what more verification do you need?


To be more precise, it may have deprived her of one of her preferred routine ways of determining whether a profile is fake.

What do you think her reason was for wanting to see your friends list?

I have a suspicion that she saw my drumming videos and, because I'm autistic, possibly thought I looked weird and that I might be an incel (read: unattractive beta male). I don't present very attractively so she thought it would make sense to see if I had Instagram, not to verify who I was but to see how many pics and friends I had liking and commenting on said pics because that would've led her believe I was actually popular and therefore "normal". There's truly no other reason to ask to see someone's Instagram except to see how popular that person is, it's not an identity verifier. Women, especially feminists, loathe autistic men, especifically ones that look socially awkward and like they may have difficulty making friends. They regularly accuse them of being incels and wanting to murder them.


True, but different people use Facebook in different ways, with different expectations.


Perhaps she had hoped to get more info about you before sending a Facebook friend request? Perhaps she might have hoped that the Facebook friend request would be perceived as less nosy, or generally less forward, if you were to interact a bit on Instagram first?

How would that be less nosy? If anything it's way more intrusive and makes her look more suspect. Also, like I said in my initial post, she claimed she got nervous meeting people but that just didn't ring true for me. Nervous people who truly are afraid of meeting just anyone in general wouldn't be on these sites desperately trying to meet up with people and then posting why everyone's ignoring them, it's just not consistent behaviour.


Be that as it may, it would have been an opportunity to interact with you in a different medium and thus, hopefully, gain more insights about you.

We were already talking via text... what further insights could she have possibly gained from talking on Instagram that couldn't have been achieved via texting? Again, she objectively lied about not being able to see my Facebook content since that claim is virtually impossible. If Facebook wasn't sufficient for her to learn about me, what would she glean from Instagram? And if she lied about that, why should I trust that her motives are genuine?


What, exactly, is the alleged "simple" answer? What do you think her aim was?

Her aim was to avoid hanging out with undesirable individuals who make her uncomfortable. Not unsafe... uncomfortable. Big difference. Both men and women will hang out with murderers, rapists and pedophiles if they're attracted to them. It's not about safety as people claim, it's about being around people you want to be around. Some of of the most vile, horrific and dangerous individuals have tons of friends. Making people uncomfortable is the only definitive social dealbreaker. Autistic people know this as well as anyone but they're the few people who will actually admit to it because they suffer from it the most.


My only "dog in this fight" is that I am a woman and you are making a blanket accusation against women -- and you are backing up that blanket accusation with an alleged example that makes no sense whatsoever.


Nothing to pretend here. I see absolutely not the even the tiniest, slightest basis for accusing her of lying.

I'm not saying you should trust her, either. You don't know her, so you have no idea how trustworthy she might or might not be. But, based on what you have said so far, it does not appear to me that you have caught her in any lies.

I can understand that you would feel annoyed by her apparent desire to see your friends list, given your own preference for not sharing same. And indeed you don't owe her your friends list. But this doesn't necessarily mean she's lying or has some malevolent motive. It just means you and she have incompatible ways of getting to know people via Facebook.

"It just means you and she have incompatible ways of getting to know people via Facebook." I honestly have no idea what you mean by this. Incompatible in what way?


My stance here is "innocent until proven guilty."

It's difficult to say definitively because then it's easy to give the benefit of the doubt due to possible "margin for error" but like I said, posting something that says "How come no one wants to make music these days?" (not in general but during the current time period) and then responding to someone else saying that musicians are everywhere with "but no one ever ends up actually meeting up" really makes it sound that she was wondering why no one's meeting up presently. At least that's what it sounds like to me but tbh, you could have a point and maybe I misread it. Truth is, I thought there was the possibility that I was overthinking it, which is why I tried to give her the benefit of the doubt and contacted her.

This is much less defendable... there's already so much content on my profile visible that even if she *wasn't * seeing everything, she'd have no reason to. What was she looking for exactly, videos of me raping and killing women? No one needs to see everything on someone's profile to get a sense of whether that person is who they claim to be (not that I claimed to be anyone in the first place). There's over a dozen videos of me drumming, so unless that's actually someone else, what more verification do you need?

I have a suspicion that she saw my drumming videos and, because I'm autistic, possibly thought I looked weird and that I might be an incel (read: unattractive beta male). I don't present very attractively so she thought it would make sense to see if I had Instagram, not to verify who I was but to see how many pics and friends I had liking and commenting on said pics because that would've led her believe I was actually popular and therefore "normal".

There's truly no other reason to ask to see someone's Instagram except to see how popular that person is, it's not an identity verifier.

Women, especially feminists, loathe autistic men, specifically ones that look socially awkward and like they may have difficulty making friends.

They regularly accuse them of being incels and wanting to murder them.

How would that be less nosy? If anything it's way more intrusive and makes her look more suspect.

Also, like I said in my initial post, she claimed she got nervous meeting people but that just didn't ring true for me. Nervous people who truly are afraid of meeting just anyone in general wouldn't be on these sites desperately trying to meet up with people and then posting why everyone's ignoring them, it's just not consistent behaviour.

We were already talking via text... what further insights could she have possibly gained from talking on Instagram that couldn't have been achieved via texting?

Again, she objectively lied about not being able to see my Facebook content since that claim is virtually impossible.

If Facebook wasn't sufficient for her to learn about me, what would she glean from Instagram?

And if she lied about that,

why should I trust that her motives are genuine?

Her aim was to avoid hanging out with undesirable individuals who make her uncomfortable. Not unsafe... uncomfortable. Big difference.

Both men and women will hang out with murderers, rapists and pedophiles if they're attracted to them. It's not about safety as people claim, it's about being around people you want to be around. Some of of the most vile, horrific and dangerous individuals have tons of friends.

Making people uncomfortable is the only definitive social dealbreaker.

Autistic people know this as well as anyone but they're the few people who will actually admit to it because they suffer from it the most.

Big problem with your argument dude/dudette:

1. If she didn't feel safe, why bother communicating with a potential risk in the first place?

2. I wasn't not upfront with her; in fact, I didn't say a single thing to her that wasn't honest. Please point out where in my description of events I say or do anything dishonest.

3. I never said anything to her to even remotely suggest I had a problem with lgbt/feminist women. I may be saying it now but unless she's a telepath, she'd have no way of knowing that so your argument is invalid. Nor is there anything written on my Facebook account that suggests it but she obviously wouldn't be able to see it anyway...

4. I DON'T have a problem with feminist/LGBT rights whatsoever and that's an absurd conclusion based on what I've said. I said that I believe many of them have a tendency towards truth manipulation... what does that have to do with "rights"? Like, the right to lie? They do have the right to lie, just like I have the right to take issue with it. It's ironic that you're calling me out on making assumptions about certain kinds of people when you've made a pretty egregious assumption about me based on no evidence.

You call trans guys dudette... you clearly have a problem with LGBT people.

I'd give him the benefit of the doubt with that. I only just noticed your signature at the end of your last post although I did remember you saying you were a trans guy before. I'm hoping he didn't know and was just trying not to be offensive.

1. If she didn't feel safe, why bother communicating with a potential risk in the first place?

You call trans guys dudette... you clearly have a problem with LGBT people.

People communicate with potential risks every day.

If you don't think you're doing that, you're either a six foot, built, NT cis guy between the ages of 20 and 60 who's prepared to use physical force to enforce your boundaries or you're only talking with family/family friends who have been vetted by family or you're incredibly naive.

Thing is: navigate the risk. Don't tell everyone everything up front. Don't be the aspie or the child who does that. This is why kids aren't allowed to talk to strangers, because they don't know that.

Do you go out with your front door unlocked, not go out at all or go out but lock your door?

Locking the door isn't the same thing as calling the woman walking past your house a thief. It's the same thing as saying 'look, if she is a thief, I don't want it to be easy for her, if she isn't a thief then this won't bother her'.

People have boundaries and there is nothing wrong with that. People tell white lies. Nothing wrong with that.

NTs and high functioning enough autistic people 'lie'. It's not really lying. It's keeping polite and safe at the same time. It's a practice learned in teenage years and adult years and part of growing up, it's what allows us to talk to people who aren't either family friends or family.

You call trans guys dudette... you clearly have a problem with LGBT people.

People communicate with potential risks every day.

If you don't think you're doing that, you're either a six foot, built, NT cis guy between the ages of 20 and 60 who's prepared to use physical force to enforce your boundaries or you're only talking with family/family friends who have been vetted by family or you're incredibly naive.

Thing is: navigate the risk. Don't tell everyone everything up front. Don't be the aspie or the child who does that. This is why kids aren't allowed to talk to strangers, because they don't know that.

Do you go out with your front door unlocked, not go out at all or go out but lock your door?

Locking the door isn't the same thing as calling the woman walking past your house a thief. It's the same thing as saying 'look, if she is a thief, I don't want it to be easy for her, if she isn't a thief then this won't bother her'.

People have boundaries and there is nothing wrong with that. People tell white lies. Nothing wrong with that.

NTs and high functioning enough autistic people 'lie'. It's not really lying. It's keeping polite and safe at the same time. It's a practice learned in teenage years and adult years and part of growing up, it's what allows us to talk to people who aren't either family friends or family.

GammaRayBob, what's so secret about your friends list that you keep it hidden but not the rest of your profile? Also, I don't have much Facebook knowledge but what would be so bad about adding her as a friend then removing her if you don't get along? Did you only talk to her to try and trick her into saying she wanted to meet in person so you could prove she was lying?

How would that be less nosy? If anything it's way more intrusive and makes her look more suspect.

She might consider it to be less nosy because your Instagram profile, if you had one, might contain at least some parts that are available to the general public, whereas a lot of people (you're far from the only one) don't like to accept friend requests from all and sundry.

We were already talking via text... what further insights could she have possibly gained from talking on Instagram that couldn't have been achieved via texting?

If there were a bunch of people liking and commenting on stuff on your profile, it would be further evidence (though not absolute proof) that your profile was genuine.

Again, she objectively lied about not being able to see my Facebook content since that claim is virtually impossible.

Did she claim she couldn't see anything at all on your Facebook profile, or did she just assume that there was more to see than she was already seeing? (If the former, my first question would be whether something might have changed on Facebook itself, such that stuff previously visible to the general public wasn't visible any longer, or perhaps had become temporarily invisible due to a temporary Facebook glitch. I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that the person who said this was lying -- although, of course, that's a possibility too.)

And if she lied about that,

You still haven't identified a provable lie.

why should I trust that her motives are genuine?

One should never trust a complete stranger. On the other hand, it's not a good idea to jump to malevolent conclusions about people either.

Nope, no trick, legitimately wanted to meet but was getting suspicious and sketchy vibes from her, like she was suspicious of me but not for legitimate reasons. Normally I wouldn't have cared and would've just gone along with it but I've spoken to/met up with and then been promptly ghosted by so many people that I've been more on my guard as of late. So if my red flags start going up, so do my defenses. It gets tiring after a while but I'm just about on the cusp of not bothering to deal with people anymore entirely. Way I saw it, if this is how things were going virtually, it wasn't going to be much better in person so I eventually bailed.

I don't like adding random people to Facebook anymore when I don't end up talking to them so gave up on that in general but in this case, since I felt she had ulterior motives, I didn't want to give her satisfaction of thinking she "duped" me into trusting her. Again, defense mechanism I've developed recently.

You didn't actually address anything I wrote, you just kinda sidestepped it and changed the subject. I'd like to address what you wrote but I think it'd be nice if you did the same for me first, otherwise it feels a bit like I'm talking to myself. Unless of course you don't feel like what you wrote was important but then, why bother writing it?