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Erewhon
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15 Jul 2021, 1:34 am

François Marie Arouet, better known as Voltaire has several quotes to his name. The quote below is also his, and actually not, because the quote will most likely have been in French. If you can make people believe in lies, then see that these people are under hypnosis, a hypnosis while they are conscious. Might sound contradictory that he's hypnotized and yet conscious, kind of like blinders.

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naturalplastic
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15 Jul 2021, 5:50 am

Vertetuesi wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Darwin denying YECism (for starters)


Darwin never heard of Pluto. Your argument is invalid.


What are you talking about?

What are you claiming is my "argument"?

And how does the fact Pluto was discovered after Darwin's time refute this supposed "argument"?



Mr Reynholm
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15 Jul 2021, 1:20 pm

It may be more about what people want to believe.
I met a flat earther who really wants to believe in the idea. He rejected my experience (while in the USN) of having been places and seen things that refute the idea.
Wanting to believe something is a strong motivator that can lead one to deny the facts or distort facts to fit their worldview.



funeralxempire
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15 Jul 2021, 1:23 pm

Mr Reynholm wrote:
It may be more about what people want to believe.
I met a flat earther who really wants to believe in the idea. He rejected my experience (while in the USN) of having been places and seen things that refute the idea.
Wanting to believe something is a strong motivator that can lead one to deny the facts or distort facts to fit their worldview.



Take him out on a boat far enough to lose sight of the shore. At the very least he'll have to concede earth is some sort of dome. :lol:


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戦争ではなく戦争と戦う


ASPartOfMe
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15 Jul 2021, 1:46 pm

The person lying is convincing.


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MarcDC
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15 Jul 2021, 2:49 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
It may be more about what people want to believe.
I met a flat earther who really wants to believe in the idea. He rejected my experience (while in the USN) of having been places and seen things that refute the idea.
Wanting to believe something is a strong motivator that can lead one to deny the facts or distort facts to fit their worldview.



Take him out on a boat far enough to lose sight of the shore. At the very least he'll have to concede earth is some sort of dome. :lol:

And then you can take him around Antartica and notice it's not the longest distance you can travel on the disk... although probably they have a way to 'explain' this too...



funeralxempire
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15 Jul 2021, 2:53 pm

MarcDC wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
It may be more about what people want to believe.
I met a flat earther who really wants to believe in the idea. He rejected my experience (while in the USN) of having been places and seen things that refute the idea.
Wanting to believe something is a strong motivator that can lead one to deny the facts or distort facts to fit their worldview.



Take him out on a boat far enough to lose sight of the shore. At the very least he'll have to concede earth is some sort of dome. :lol:

And then you can take him around Antartica and notice it's not the longest distance you can travel on the disk... although probably they have a way to 'explain' this too...


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"If you stick a knife in my back 9 inches and pull it out 6 inches, there's no progress. If you pull it all the way out, that's not progress. The progress is healing the wound that the blow made... and they won't even admit the knife is there." Malcolm X
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う


AngelL
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15 Jul 2021, 3:36 pm

I don't see truth.

Input comes in through what some call, the sensory gates - seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, (physical) feeling, and thinking. That input, or information, is sent to this handy-dandy, head-held computer I call my brain. Yeah, let's go with brain = computer. I have a mac (ND), while the majority of the world has a PC (NT). This is the hardware.

The truth is inputted into our computer and we access that information through our operating system, which is our mind. Our mind however, is seriously corrupted with viruses (prejudices, biases, filters, etc.) that makes whatever truth we are trying to see, fuzzy at best.

Then you've got folks trying to run their data through a single-processor Commodore 64 (low IQ) while others have a multi-core processor (high IQ) or even a super-computer (Mensa).

How close I get to the truth is reliant upon how much computing power I have, coupled with how corrupted my operating system is.



MarcDC
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15 Jul 2021, 5:36 pm

AngelL wrote:
I don't see truth.

Input comes in through what some call, the sensory gates - seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, (physical) feeling, and thinking. That input, or information, is sent to this handy-dandy, head-held computer I call my brain. Yeah, let's go with brain = computer. I have a mac (ND), while the majority of the world has a PC (NT). This is the hardware.

The truth is inputted into our computer and we access that information through our operating system, which is our mind. Our mind however, is seriously corrupted with viruses (prejudices, biases, filters, etc.) that makes whatever truth we are trying to see, fuzzy at best.

Then you've got folks trying to run their data through a single-processor Commodore 64 (low IQ) while others have a multi-core processor (high IQ) or even a super-computer (Mensa).

How close I get to the truth is reliant upon how much computing power I have, coupled with how corrupted my operating system is.

I have this feeling - using your computer analogy - that being autistic is like running a modern game with fancy graphics on a computer without a graphics card. It's not a weak computer, it has enough CPU, but since every calculation has to happen through that bottleneck it's not smooth and gets overheated faster.
The analogy also feels right because NT people seem to do lots of thing on autopilot, like buying a card for a birthday ...



MarcDC
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15 Jul 2021, 5:41 pm

I have a feeling I'm rather good at figuring out people with negative mental conditions, like narcissists... I don't fall for their drama and see them without that aura that seem to have for other people.
If somebody is able to switch from putting a mental knife on your throat to crying like a child in a split second, it's probably not genuine emotion. Lies and deceit... amazing how people can thrive in such a web.



Mr Reynholm
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16 Jul 2021, 1:24 pm

Why do people continue to believe the Main Stream Media that has continually lied to them?



thinkinginpictures
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16 Jul 2021, 1:44 pm

Mr Reynholm wrote:
Why do people continue to believe the Main Stream Media that has continually lied to them?


Well, I could read a socialist newspaper, but that won't give me the truth despite the fact I agree with many socialist points of view.

I can read a Conservative newspaper, but that won't give me the truth either, as I know it's more nuanced than that.

I can read a Liberal or Libertarian newspaper, but that too won't give me the whole truth.

The truth is not somewhere in the middle. It is not (necessarily) in the extremes either. The truth can only be glimpsed by approximation, because of lack of human knowledge/ignorance (intentional as well as unintentional).

To get a good approximation to the truth, you need to read both the socialist, liberal and conservative newspapers, and see for yourself which stories or events they'd agree on. Their conclusions might differ, but the conclusion is up to the reader. To get closer to the truth, you need logical arguments in favor of one conclusion over another, and see which logical arguments are most consistent.

But you cannot conclude from a single news story. You need it from more sources.



uncommondenominator
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16 Jul 2021, 3:11 pm

Mr Reynholm wrote:
Wanting to believe something is a strong motivator that can lead one to deny the facts or distort facts to fit their worldview.


Says the fella who believes that ALL mainstream media is lying, except for the news sources that agree with what you already believe.

Why do you want to believe this? Is it cos you believe that the alternative is SCARY! and EVIL! and such? Who told you that? The same people you already believe anyways?

Typically the response is "I BELIEVE IT COS IT'S TRUUUU!! !" Said every cult ever.

People like feeling special. People like feeling like they're in on some big secret, or part of some special group. It's way cooler being the keeper of secret knowledge or the knower of greater truths than it is to be just another one of 6 billion shaved apes currently existing on a tiny blue rock hurling through an infinite void.

-------

When a person has held a belief for so long it has become integral to how they are and how they behave, any new information that conflicts with it results in a lot of WORK! Sometimes it's SCARY! Sometimes, things we believe are built upon other things, so when a core belief that supports a lot of other beliefs becomes compromised, it threatens to being the entire belief system crashing down.

Then the person has to rebuild a whole new belief system all over again. Perhaps they would be forced to acknowledge that some of their behaviors, some things they've actually done in the past, that they formerly believed were justified and fair, were actually really terrible things to do, given this new information.

Perhaps their belief system is the only thing that makes them feel safe in a big scary uncertain world, and the idea of having to abandon it, for any reason, is so terrifying, it's easier to convince yourself that everyone else is lying, and you hold some sacred secret Truth. A Truth SO POWERFUL, others seek to DESTROY! it!

After all, why should someone go to all the trouble of admitting they're a jerk, and changing who they are, and possibly making their life "worse" in the process by no longer being able to believe they're as awesome as they think they are, when it's far easier to just claim everyone else is just a toxic hater, and they all hate you so much they even gang-stalk you to make sure you fail in life. Then they can continue to believe they're awesome, no matter how mediocre they are, and just blame their failures on all the "stalker-haters" that coordinate to MAKE them fail.

"The truth is in the middle" is a lie originated by those who want to move the truth by opposing a fact with a lie, so they can move "The Truth" closer to their lie. Once the New Truth is established, they oppose it with a new lie even further out, and then claim the NEW new truth is in the middle of THAT. Do this a few times and suddenly the "common wisdom" accepted as the Truth sits right on top of the original first lie. In the process, it dragged just enough truth with it, that if you try to refute the lie, they use the few smatterings of truth remining as shields against incursion.

There are as many reasons as there are people. They tend to boil down to laziness, self-interest, fear, and similar.



naturalplastic
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16 Jul 2021, 4:24 pm



Maybe that dont need reasons. They need alibies!



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16 Jul 2021, 5:30 pm

Mr Reynholm wrote:
Why do people continue to believe the Main Stream Media that has continually lied to them?


Such as what lies?
The "less than mainstream" media hardly has a stellar record on that account, concerning lies that Trump had actually won the 2020 election, that he had had the biggest inauguration in human history, that the capitol riot was instigated by Antifa, or BLM, or even the FBI, that the Covid vaccination is more dangerous than Covid, etc.


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17 Jul 2021, 2:13 pm

I suppose people want to think that there's an afterlife, that their loved ones are still alive somewhere out there, that somebody will eventually give them justice, that they'll be properly looked after, that they're good, smart people, better than average, that they're going to win, that working hard will bring them all the comforts they want, that this or that product will transform their lives for the better. So if somebody tells them what they want to know, they'll tend to believe it.

It does seem odd to me. I know there's often a difference between what I want to think and what's really going on, and I haven't completely believed anybody or anything since I was a young child. It's not always comfortable to be like that, but I get some comfort from thinking that I'm not gullible, that I might be a tad less deluded than a lot of people. And I don't notice my friends are particularly gullible either, for the most part. I do get some depressing surprises when I hear about "the public." According to one survey, they have a tendency to think that if the government abandons a Covid restriction, then it must be safe for them to that thing. Boris Johnson goes on TV and gives us medical advice about the pandemic, and quite a lot of people watch it. Me, I don't even completely trust what the health professionals say.