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sitko
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11 Mar 2021, 5:45 pm

Hi,

OK, I get this, I know this info exists on the web, and I'm searching for it, but I think one of my Autistic shortcomings, is an inability to find info on THIS subject:

I want to create a Microsoft stack based website on a hosting site. Please tell me what I need to look for, as that technical stuff is beyond me. I posted this question on Reddit, you may of seen it there. I didn't like my answers, so I decided to go to group of people who 'get it'.

I'm creating a prototype for a project I'm working on. I know Microsoft stack so that's what I'm using. I know there might be better languages etc, and maybe I'll write the next version in a different language, but I know Microsoft, so I'll start there.

Items I'd like to be able to do: Store instances of SQL Server databases ON the Web Hosting site. Be able to create MVC/Web Form/ or whatever the latest and greatest will be. This website might eventually become a 'business' so I'd want to know if I could upgrade to scale up the website as we grow.

If you're interested in hearing more about this, or interested in chatting about it over email please feel free to reach out to me on WP, and tell me about yourself.

Thanks,
sitko.



Mona Pereth
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14 Mar 2021, 1:16 pm

sitko wrote:
I'm creating a prototype for a project I'm working on. I know Microsoft stack so that's what I'm using. I know there might be better languages etc, and maybe I'll write the next version in a different language, but I know Microsoft, so I'll start there.

Please let us know when you are ready to move on to the next version in a different language. There are many advantages of avoiding Microsoft as I mentioned in my response to your other thread.

EDIT: Better yet, I would strongly urge you to consider doing things the right way from the get go. As I said in the other thread, there are non-Microsoft-centric programming languages, such as Java, that are similar enough to C# that you should be able to learn them easily.

If you choose to use a FreeBSD host, my boyfriend and I can help you set things up. Other people here could probably help you if you decide to use Linux.


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jp3000
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15 Mar 2021, 9:26 am

I think that the easiest way to go would be to use Azure, and host the website in something called an Azure App Service. If you use Visual Studio för development you basically right click on the project and click Publish (some setup required the first time), to deploy your code to the App Service.

App Services have a free level (good enough for development), and are scalabe too.

Regarding the database it would probably be easiest to set this up in Azure too from the start, if you are willing to pay. I don't know the cost.

If you want a free database you could run it locally while you're developing, and then set it up in Azure once you're ready. I believe setting up a PostgreSQL in Azure could be almost free too.

Let me know if you want more details on some of this. I could be interested in contributing as well, but depends on what kind of business it is.



Fenn
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29 Mar 2021, 8:23 pm

https://aws.amazon.com/vmware/

vmware allows you to to put a complete virtual machine on AWS (Amazon Web Services).

You can put a Windows 10 guest OS in the vmware virtual machine - then you have your MS stack.

When people move to remote hosting they often also want scalability - so you can add "boxes" to add capacities (visiters per minutes or pages per minute). When your OS is Microsoft you are tied to MS licensing - you have to pay per box.
When you use Linux you don't have to pay for the OS on each box. Mint and Ubuntu and CentOS are free Linux Distributions.
Red Hat is now owned by IBM.

A kind of a middle ground is "mono" which is a kind of Microsoft .NET for Linux. You can develop on your laptop, test in a VM running Linux and Mono and deploy to Mono. I have gotten IronPython running on my Mac Laptop under Mono. Mono cannot do everything that .NET can do so testing on netive Microsoft .NET and Mono is a must.

When you say "Windows Web Stack" what technologies are you using exactly. A Web Stack can include a HTTP server plus a Programming Language like IIS and VB but it may not - like with node.js. It may include the OS and a database but it may not. Usually you need some local disk but if you use "https://nobackend.org" you might not. There are also things like the JVM and .NET CLR are in between the language and the OS and then there are things like VMWare and Docker which are (in a way) between the OS and the bare metal (sort of). You can use things like COM and ASP and ODBC which are not exactly software but not exactly OS either and are sometimes called middleware. But there are things like Mule which are very different but also called middleware.

If I were looking for a web-hosting company I would be searching on google and bing for the specific tech I needed.


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sitko
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01 Apr 2021, 8:12 pm

The problem is my skills are really rusty. And I'm poor.

When I was working as a developer, the companies always had an infrastructure team, that did all these kind of decisions. I want to be able to understand the VM aspect, and in my gut, that feels right.

But, at the same time, I hope to have Unity for some of the front end stuff, and that uses C#.

I've posted this idea to other posts, basically, it's a new social network, to hopefully replace all the evil social networks. I want to create it in such a way, that the users will help create Unity "games" for the front end.



Fenn
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02 Apr 2021, 11:02 am

I am looking at C# and Unity. It looks like running it on Mono (which can run on Linux) is completely possible.
There is also a pathway for compiling it to byte code then compiling that to C++ that can compile to native code on any platform.

It also looks like it is primarily a game platform - but it is sometimes used for other things.

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/archiv ... and-csharp

https://docs.unity3d.com/Manual/overvie ... unity.html

https://yadiyasheng.medium.com/confusin ... 2a2e85949a

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/archiv ... tten-rules

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/archiv ... a-services

https://docs.unity3d.com/2020.2/Documen ... lkits.html


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sitko
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28 May 2021, 9:56 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:
sitko wrote:
I'm creating a prototype for a project I'm working on. I know Microsoft stack so that's what I'm using. I know there might be better languages etc, and maybe I'll write the next version in a different language, but I know Microsoft, so I'll start there.


EDIT: Better yet, I would strongly urge you to consider doing things the right way from the get go. As I said in the other thread, there are non-Microsoft-centric programming languages, such as Java, that are similar enough to C# that you should be able to learn them easily.

If you choose to use a FreeBSD host, my boyfriend and I can help you set things up. Other people here could probably help you if you decide to use Linux.


While I'd love the help setting it up...I think that trying to in addition, relearn several new languages, and do my project to boot...would be too difficult...plus, I have a good idea for a marketing thing that involves "Unity3D" a third party game engine library (in C#) that I plan to use in my GUIs, and even hopefully, so games I create in the APP platform.

If I get investors, and they think I should move to a different platform/language/etc., I'll listen to them...

I just want to design stuff, not actually create it...I'll let my minions do that.



techstepgenr8tion
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28 May 2021, 10:18 pm

I've been doing .Net Core and Angular for a while but admittedly I don't build outward-facing, just internal.

Someone mentioned Azure above, also isn't MySQL and PostgreSQL the online stuff? I've heard a lot of complaints about MySQL, less about Postgre.


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sitko
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29 May 2021, 12:36 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
I've been doing .Net Core and Angular for a while but admittedly I don't build outward-facing, just internal.

Someone mentioned Azure above, also isn't MySQL and PostgreSQL the online stuff? I've heard a lot of complaints about MySQL, less about Postgre.


So, no one uses SQL-Server anymore? I guess the database doesn't actually matter at this point, as I'm mainly designing the API right now/Terms of Service/Goals of the Project...



techstepgenr8tion
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29 May 2021, 12:39 pm

sitko wrote:
techstepgenr8tion wrote:
I've been doing .Net Core and Angular for a while but admittedly I don't build outward-facing, just internal.

Someone mentioned Azure above, also isn't MySQL and PostgreSQL the online stuff? I've heard a lot of complaints about MySQL, less about Postgre.


So, no one uses SQL-Server anymore? I guess the database doesn't actually matter at this point, as I'm mainly designing the API right now/Terms of Service/Goals of the Project...

I use SSMS Express in all of my apps but that's also inward-facing through IIS AppPool. If you can use Express great.

Something I just saw comparing SQL Server to MySql:

https://www.softwaretestinghelp.com/sql ... ql-server/

Looks like from the benchmarking go with SQL Server if you can.


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sitko
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29 May 2021, 12:45 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
sitko wrote:
techstepgenr8tion wrote:
I've been doing .Net Core and Angular for a while but admittedly I don't build outward-facing, just internal.

Someone mentioned Azure above, also isn't MySQL and PostgreSQL the online stuff? I've heard a lot of complaints about MySQL, less about Postgre.


So, no one uses SQL-Server anymore? I guess the database doesn't actually matter at this point, as I'm mainly designing the API right now/Terms of Service/Goals of the Project...

I use SSMS Express in all of my apps but that's also inward-facing through IIS AppPool. If you can use Express great.

Something I just saw comparing SQL Server to MySql:

https://www.softwaretestinghelp.com/sql ... ql-server/

Looks like from the benchmarking go with SQL Server if you can.


Just so you know SSMS stands for "SQL-Server Management Studio". Thanks.



techstepgenr8tion
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29 May 2021, 12:53 pm

sitko wrote:
Just so you know SSMS stands for "SQL-Server Management Studio".

If it can be hosted online and it isn't wildly more expensive to do so than MySql or Postgre I'd go with it then.


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Fenn
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29 May 2021, 12:58 pm

MS SQL-Server has a niche - it is easier to maintain as a part time job than some "big name" databases, like Oracle or Sybase or DB2. For large database / web stacks there is an advantage to using a database where you don't have to pay a licensing fee per box or per VM or per docker container. For modern horizontally scalable clusters or farms Linux (such as Centos or Debian or Mint) and a open source database (such as MariaDB or PostgreSQL) and a FOSS programming language (like golang or clang or even the open version of java or c++ or Python or Ruby or even PHP or Perl) is the way to go. If I were tooling up at this time I would start with Java and Python and pick one other lesser known but exciting language like golang or Ruby or Rust. If you really like MS Visual Studio you can still use that with Java or C++ - for Python you might want to go with PyCharm community. If you invest in programmer productivity tools that don't tie you down to a high cost delivery platform you may be happier in the end. YMMV. The advantage of Microsoft is "one neck to throttle" and good (but costly) programmer tools. The disadvantage is licensing fees on the delivery platform.

This site lists SQLserver at the top of the list - this is not consistent with my own personal experience

https://www.datanyze.com/market-share/d ... rket-share


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sitko
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31 May 2021, 8:30 pm

Fenn wrote:
MS SQL-Server has a niche - it is easier to maintain as a part time job than some "big name" databases, like Oracle or Sybase or DB2. For large database / web stacks there is an advantage to using a database where you don't have to pay a licensing fee per box or per VM or per docker container. For modern horizontally scalable clusters or farms Linux (such as Centos or Debian or Mint) and a open source database (such as MariaDB or PostgreSQL) and a FOSS programming language (like golang or clang or even the open version of java or c++ or Python or Ruby or even PHP or Perl) is the way to go. If I were tooling up at this time I would start with Java and Python and pick one other lesser known but exciting language like golang or Ruby or Rust. If you really like MS Visual Studio you can still use that with Java or C++ - for Python you might want to go with PyCharm community. If you invest in programmer productivity tools that don't tie you down to a high cost delivery platform you may be happier in the end. YMMV. The advantage of Microsoft is "one neck to throttle" and good (but costly) programmer tools. The disadvantage is licensing fees on the delivery platform.

This site lists SQLserver at the top of the list - this is not consistent with my own personal experience

https://www.datanyze.com/market-share/d ... rket-share


Licensing fees? For software created in Microsoft Studio? Or are you talking about SQL Server? Well, the way I see this effort right now, is I'm building a prototype of what could be an interesting project. If I can get investors, or if other developers start helping me with the project and they can convince me that C#/SQL-Server/Unity3D wouldn't be the easiest way for ME to create what I have in mind, then I could be convinced.. I have a subscription to PluralSight (which is a training platform, where you can watch technical training in just about anything.) There are TONS of courses for these technologies.

I'll open up PluralSight tomorrow, and look up some of these technologies you mentioned here. I know my buddy who is acting as my current sounding board, is a huge python fan, so maybe I'd consider that switch, if some python developer would join my team...but if it's just going to be me...it's going to be MS-Stack...at least for now.



Fenn
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02 Jun 2021, 9:30 am

C# is really a microsoft-only technology. Microsoft started making incompatible changes to Java and got into a fight with Sun and then come up with their own "clone". Same way they come up with a lot of tech. If you don't want to be restricted to Mono (which exists only at the will of Microsoft, when they decide to squash it they can, and is always behind on features compared to MS .NET) you will have to deliver on some version of MS Windows - and then you have licensing fees, that you don't have with CentOS or Mint. Same with just about any other MS technology - it is a trick they learned from IBM. Read about the history of the development of Microsoft Windows and MS-DOS. Java was open-sourced by Sun before Oracle bought them in a hostel take over - so it is now open. MS is purposely incompatible with many standards, a process they call "embrace and extend" - if you start with MS you are usually stuck with MS, unless you are delivering and testing on Linux along the way. IBM was famous before this and Microsoft really got its start with the IBM PC and MS-DOS and branched out from there. IBM taught them well in the school of hard knocks.


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Fenn
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02 Jun 2021, 9:43 am

You could develop with Unity3d, C#, Mono and IL2CPP

But I am guessing it would not be as "nice" a developer experience - but you would open up more delivery platforms.

https://docs.unity3d.com/560/Documentat ... velop.html
https://docs.unity3d.com/560/Documentat ... L2CPP.html

It is possible to use Mono, C# and MariaDB or Postgresql

https://www.mono-project.com/docs/datab ... ostgresql/
https://romain.blogreen.org/blog/2009/0 ... -and-mono/
https://lvasquez.github.io/2015-09-06/c ... iadb-mono/

You need to decide if ease of development is more important than platform agnostic delivery for you.


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