Joe Biden hands US border crisis to Kamala Harris

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Kraichgauer
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06 Apr 2021, 9:29 pm

Daddy63 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:

Won't happen; not with the leering ghost of Donald Trump present to serve as an example of that failure.


They won't have any other choice.


Why not? After all, it had been Republicans of old (Reagan and Bush Sr.) who had talked about working with the migrants to give them American citizenship. I don't see why the Dems couldn't do the same thing today.


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07 Apr 2021, 9:30 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Daddy63 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:

Won't happen; not with the leering ghost of Donald Trump present to serve as an example of that failure.


They won't have any other choice.


Why not? After all, it had been Republicans of old (Reagan and Bush Sr.) who had talked about working with the migrants to give them American citizenship. I don't see why the Dems couldn't do the same thing today.


It's not a Republican or Democrat issue. Both sides could agree on how to handle illegal migrants already in the country. It just comes down to politics. Even Trump made good proposals that were rejected for political reasons.

Democrats have to fortify the border. If not this ongoing disaster is simply going to continue. People will die trying to get into the country illegally. Unaccompanied minors will end up being exploited by drug traffickers and gangs and the Democrats will continue to put kids and families in cages and containers. The flow of illegal migrants must drop significantly or it will inflict severe political damage on the Democratic Party.

There is simply no way to handle it without a secure border which means continuing construction of a barriers.



Kraichgauer
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07 Apr 2021, 5:33 pm

Daddy63 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Daddy63 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:

Won't happen; not with the leering ghost of Donald Trump present to serve as an example of that failure.


They won't have any other choice.


Why not? After all, it had been Republicans of old (Reagan and Bush Sr.) who had talked about working with the migrants to give them American citizenship. I don't see why the Dems couldn't do the same thing today.


It's not a Republican or Democrat issue. Both sides could agree on how to handle illegal migrants already in the country. It just comes down to politics. Even Trump made good proposals that were rejected for political reasons.

Democrats have to fortify the border. If not this ongoing disaster is simply going to continue. People will die trying to get into the country illegally. Unaccompanied minors will end up being exploited by drug traffickers and gangs and the Democrats will continue to put kids and families in cages and containers. The flow of illegal migrants must drop significantly or it will inflict severe political damage on the Democratic Party.

There is simply no way to handle it without a secure border which means continuing construction of a barriers.


The best way to stifle the flow of illegal immigration is helping to fix the problems in the countries they're fleeing from - poverty, gang violence, ethnic oppression, etc.


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Daddy63
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07 Apr 2021, 7:01 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
The best way to stifle the flow of illegal immigration is helping to fix the problems in the countries they're fleeing from - poverty, gang violence, ethnic oppression, etc.


It's typically Socialist or "progressive" ideologies that lead to corruption, increased poverty, gang violence, ethnic oppression in developing countries. Once people buy into the victimization and begin blaming the government or whatever ethnic/racial group it turns into a vicious cycle.

Economic Capitalism works but it takes way to long to show significant progress. As countries like China, South Korea, Chile and others have shown, it can take 40 or 50 years of growth at 5-10% a year to show meaningful improvement. It's hard to get desperately poor people to buy into that kind of a system and slow progress.

Even the best plans for the poor countries of Central America would require at least a generation to fix and those countries aren't likely to embrace Capitalism.

Mexico for the most part has embraced Capitalism and has been on a positive growth path for some time though it's too slow. Per capita income is finally almost at $10,000. Another decade of high growth will double it.



Kraichgauer
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07 Apr 2021, 7:24 pm

Daddy63 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
The best way to stifle the flow of illegal immigration is helping to fix the problems in the countries they're fleeing from - poverty, gang violence, ethnic oppression, etc.


It's typically Socialist or "progressive" ideologies that lead to corruption, increased poverty, gang violence, ethnic oppression in developing countries. Once people buy into the victimization and begin blaming the government or whatever ethnic/racial group it turns into a vicious cycle.

Economic Capitalism works but it takes way to long to show significant progress. As countries like China, South Korea, Chile and others have shown, it can take 40 or 50 years of growth at 5-10% a year to show meaningful improvement. It's hard to get desperately poor people to buy into that kind of a system and slow progress.

Even the best plans for the poor countries of Central America would require at least a generation to fix and those countries aren't likely to embrace Capitalism.

Mexico for the most part has embraced Capitalism and has been on a positive growth path for some time though it's too slow. Per capita income is finally almost at $10,000. Another decade of high growth will double it.


Corruption, poverty, gang violence, etc., all existed before socialism ever existed, so I doubt you can attribute any of that to socialism in itself.


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07 Apr 2021, 7:34 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Daddy63 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
The best way to stifle the flow of illegal immigration is helping to fix the problems in the countries they're fleeing from - poverty, gang violence, ethnic oppression, etc.


It's typically Socialist or "progressive" ideologies that lead to corruption, increased poverty, gang violence, ethnic oppression in developing countries. Once people buy into the victimization and begin blaming the government or whatever ethnic/racial group it turns into a vicious cycle.

Economic Capitalism works but it takes way to long to show significant progress. As countries like China, South Korea, Chile and others have shown, it can take 40 or 50 years of growth at 5-10% a year to show meaningful improvement. It's hard to get desperately poor people to buy into that kind of a system and slow progress.

Even the best plans for the poor countries of Central America would require at least a generation to fix and those countries aren't likely to embrace Capitalism.

Mexico for the most part has embraced Capitalism and has been on a positive growth path for some time though it's too slow. Per capita income is finally almost at $10,000. Another decade of high growth will double it.


Corruption, poverty, gang violence, etc., all existed before socialism ever existed, so I doubt you can attribute any of that to socialism in itself.



I didn't mean those things didn't exist before socialism or that they can't exist today without socialism. It's just that socialism and progressive ideologies always fail in developing nations and lead to those things.

Can you name any truly socialist or progressive developing nation that become a developed nation?



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07 Apr 2021, 8:27 pm

Daddy63 wrote:
Can you name any truly socialist or progressive developing nation that become a developed nation?


This all really depends on when you consider a developing nation to have evolved into a developed nation. But I'd point towards the increasing stability, egalitarianism and progressive policies of the Scandanavian nations after WW1 as a fine example.

This eventually led to the emergence of the "Nordic model" in the 1930s which is still working very well today, by and large.

It should also be noted that these countries have the highest standards of living in the world, with tiny levels of crime, poverty, addiction etc. per capita compared to the USA.

I agree that totalitarian, communist regimes often end up provoking equally extreme, right-wing backlashes. That works the other way round too, though - right wing dictatorships often lead to hardline, left wing rebellions. I therefore dispute your claim that the majority of social ills always stem from progressive policies. No they don't, they stem either directly from totalitarian Governments at either end of the political spectrum, or the knee-jerk reactions to them. That's an unhealthy, "abused child becomes abuser" process. Break out of that cycle and there is a lot to be gained. But it needs to be genuine, rather than the slightly-less-right-wing window dressing of the Democrats, which isn't really very progressive or social democrat in nature at all.

Certainly hoping that the problems caused by a "me first and f**k you" socio-political ethos can be overcome by doing even more of the same strikes me as totally bizarre. Society is only as strong as its weakest link. That isn't the same thing as saying enterprise can't flourish, it is possible to support the weak while also incentivising and encouraging the strong. Getting the best for everyone, and out of everyone, should be the aim. That's always going to require an astute, well-balanced blend of policies rather than all-or-nothing ideology. The Scandanavians offer proof of that.



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07 Apr 2021, 8:34 pm

Daddy63 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Daddy63 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
The best way to stifle the flow of illegal immigration is helping to fix the problems in the countries they're fleeing from - poverty, gang violence, ethnic oppression, etc.


It's typically Socialist or "progressive" ideologies that lead to corruption, increased poverty, gang violence, ethnic oppression in developing countries. Once people buy into the victimization and begin blaming the government or whatever ethnic/racial group it turns into a vicious cycle.

Economic Capitalism works but it takes way to long to show significant progress. As countries like China, South Korea, Chile and others have shown, it can take 40 or 50 years of growth at 5-10% a year to show meaningful improvement. It's hard to get desperately poor people to buy into that kind of a system and slow progress.

Even the best plans for the poor countries of Central America would require at least a generation to fix and those countries aren't likely to embrace Capitalism.

Mexico for the most part has embraced Capitalism and has been on a positive growth path for some time though it's too slow. Per capita income is finally almost at $10,000. Another decade of high growth will double it.


Corruption, poverty, gang violence, etc., all existed before socialism ever existed, so I doubt you can attribute any of that to socialism in itself.



I didn't mean those things didn't exist before socialism or that they can't exist today without socialism. It's just that socialism and progressive ideologies always fail in developing nations and lead to those things.

Can you name any truly socialist or progressive developing nation that become a developed nation?


The nations of western Europe have been toying with socialism for decades, and they seem to be doing just fine.


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Daddy63
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07 Apr 2021, 10:44 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Daddy63 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Daddy63 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
The best way to stifle the flow of illegal immigration is helping to fix the problems in the countries they're fleeing from - poverty, gang violence, ethnic oppression, etc.


It's typically Socialist or "progressive" ideologies that lead to corruption, increased poverty, gang violence, ethnic oppression in developing countries. Once people buy into the victimization and begin blaming the government or whatever ethnic/racial group it turns into a vicious cycle.

Economic Capitalism works but it takes way to long to show significant progress. As countries like China, South Korea, Chile and others have shown, it can take 40 or 50 years of growth at 5-10% a year to show meaningful improvement. It's hard to get desperately poor people to buy into that kind of a system and slow progress.

Even the best plans for the poor countries of Central America would require at least a generation to fix and those countries aren't likely to embrace Capitalism.

Mexico for the most part has embraced Capitalism and has been on a positive growth path for some time though it's too slow. Per capita income is finally almost at $10,000. Another decade of high growth will double it.


Corruption, poverty, gang violence, etc., all existed before socialism ever existed, so I doubt you can attribute any of that to socialism in itself.



I didn't mean those things didn't exist before socialism or that they can't exist today without socialism. It's just that socialism and progressive ideologies always fail in developing nations and lead to those things.

Can you name any truly socialist or progressive developing nation that become a developed nation?


The nations of western Europe have been toying with socialism for decades, and they seem to be doing just fine.


The nations of Western Europe were wealthy long before they began seriously toying with Socialism. They failed and gave up long ago on heavy taxation of corporations and expansive control of industry in favor of a free market economies and today have the lowest corporate tax rates of any region in the world. They generally make their social programs work by heavily taxing the middle classes at rates above 50% and by implementing nationalistic immigration policies to control population expansion.

They have managed to maintain the status quo with limited economic growth that struggles to keep up with inflation.
Job growth and innovation are limited.

Is there any nation in the world has become a developed country because of Socialism? Maybe a petrol state like Saudi Arabia? I wouldn't exactly call it Socialism but the government controls all industry and basically provides free everything to citizens leveraging profits from nationalized industry.



Kraichgauer
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07 Apr 2021, 11:45 pm

Daddy63 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Daddy63 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Daddy63 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
The best way to stifle the flow of illegal immigration is helping to fix the problems in the countries they're fleeing from - poverty, gang violence, ethnic oppression, etc.


It's typically Socialist or "progressive" ideologies that lead to corruption, increased poverty, gang violence, ethnic oppression in developing countries. Once people buy into the victimization and begin blaming the government or whatever ethnic/racial group it turns into a vicious cycle.

Economic Capitalism works but it takes way to long to show significant progress. As countries like China, South Korea, Chile and others have shown, it can take 40 or 50 years of growth at 5-10% a year to show meaningful improvement. It's hard to get desperately poor people to buy into that kind of a system and slow progress.

Even the best plans for the poor countries of Central America would require at least a generation to fix and those countries aren't likely to embrace Capitalism.

Mexico for the most part has embraced Capitalism and has been on a positive growth path for some time though it's too slow. Per capita income is finally almost at $10,000. Another decade of high growth will double it.


Corruption, poverty, gang violence, etc., all existed before socialism ever existed, so I doubt you can attribute any of that to socialism in itself.



I didn't mean those things didn't exist before socialism or that they can't exist today without socialism. It's just that socialism and progressive ideologies always fail in developing nations and lead to those things.

Can you name any truly socialist or progressive developing nation that become a developed nation?


The nations of western Europe have been toying with socialism for decades, and they seem to be doing just fine.


The nations of Western Europe were wealthy long before they began seriously toying with Socialism. They failed and gave up long ago on heavy taxation of corporations and expansive control of industry in favor of a free market economies and today have the lowest corporate tax rates of any region in the world. They generally make their social programs work by heavily taxing the middle classes at rates above 50% and by implementing nationalistic immigration policies to control population expansion.

They have managed to maintain the status quo with limited economic growth that struggles to keep up with inflation.
Job growth and innovation are limited.

Is there any nation in the world has become a developed country because of Socialism? Maybe a petrol state like Saudi Arabia? I wouldn't exactly call it Socialism but the government controls all industry and basically provides free everything to citizens leveraging profits from nationalized industry.


Those Europeans get a whole lot back from paying 50% taxation. In the end, they're better off than most Americans who personally save more regarding taxes, but are still hit hard if a financial or medical disaster hits.


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08 Jun 2021, 10:55 pm

Quote:
Joe Biden may have to ‘build a wall’ to deal with ‘humanitarian drama’ on the border


We all knew didn't we, it was all so obvious, what would be inevitable consequences on the US southern border of the Democrats re-positioning on border protection.

Former president Donald Trump, as you know, was tough on border protection, he emphasised that by talking about his border wall, and starting to build it.

Now this wall was nowhere near as radical as Trump pretended, and his critics fell for the sucker punch by opposing it, hysterically.

Large sections of the US-Mexican border have long been sealed off by fences, walls, moats, and heavily patrolled no-man’s land.

Still, Trump was toughening it up and the Democrats foolishly promised to stop the wall.

And they said they would offer a more compassionate border policy.
Sound familiar?

We all knew where that would lead, here in Australia we've seen that movie before.

It invites more illegal immigrants, it creates chaos, and ultimately more trauma and tragedy.

And so that's exactly what's happened on the border between the US and Mexico, the numbers started rising within weeks.

People came from further afield, authorities have been overwhelmed and the Democrats, President Joe Biden and his Vice President Kamala Harris have got one hell of a humanitarian drama to deal with it.

So that brings us to the here and now, and Harris has been on a visit to Guatemala, one of the Central American source countries for illegal migrants, and she had this message.

“I want to be clear to folks in this region who are thinking about making that dangerous trek to the US-Mexico border: Do not come, do not come,” she said.

“The US will continue to enforce our laws and secure our border.

“There are legal methods by which migration can and should occur, but we, as one of our priorities, will discourage illegal migration, and I believe if you come to our border you will be turned back.

“So let’s discourage our friends, our neighbours, our family members from embarking on what is otherwise an extremely dangerous journey.”

Yep, talking tough now.

Talking like Trump now.

But the Democrats sent out the message.

They had to oppose Trump on borders.

It was all about domestic politics, trying to appeal to the left.

Sadly, Harris and Biden have generated a horrible mess of their own making, and now they are essentially trying to rescind the invitation they've sent out.

But their actions have already spoken louder than their words.

Maybe they'll have to build a wall, or something.

https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_625 ... 0editorial

"Don't kill the messenger." 8)


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