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naturalplastic
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29 Mar 2021, 1:16 am

The freed the ship.



kitesandtrainsandcats
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29 Mar 2021, 1:48 am

Yay! That will be a relief to a lot of people!


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goldfish21
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29 Mar 2021, 2:08 am

Something else better happen quick for the meme machine to keep churning out lolz.


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GGPViper
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29 Mar 2021, 3:08 am

I found an estimate that the blockage of Suez canal cost about $ 400 million an hour...

... so, are they going to dock the captain's pay for that amount?



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29 Mar 2021, 7:02 am

If everything is about money then we live in a horrible world that we have made for ourselves.

Sure there may be a few containers with perishable goods on them but most goods can wait.

Is it the captains fault? Or is it the ship owners who made the vessel so big? Or is it those who look after the passageway for not ensuring large ships can pass through? Why is the blame assumed to be the captains fault? He entered the passageaay in good faith that his ship could get through and he had probably done it many times before. If anything, his ship getting stuck can be regarded as a very good thing as he found a problem that needs addressing that no one else found. If it wasn't for him, it would not have been found. We now know the limits to how large and heavy the ships can be built up to that can negotiate the canal so all future ships must not exceed this size and must not be stacked so much to get through. Isn't that a good thing to find out and wasn't it worth finding this out this time of year where the goods do not have so many deadlines to meet? What if this happened before Christmas when many would have been dissapointed? Or what would have happened if this would have happened when there was a war on?

We should all think it good that we have found such a flaw now and not when we were in a more seriously difficult time. Now we know the area that needs attention in the waterway, and that is a good thing.

If it is all about money, then we have to ask ourselves what we are doing in the first place? Sure money is involved, but isn't it more about getting the goods through? And if we are so reliant on getting the goods through and it is soo essential, why are we not manufacturing or growing these items in our own country where we want to use the goods? Surely that provides local jobs and skills for the local people to supply and cater for the locals peoples needs?

Globalizm is all about maximizing money at the expense of people. Localism is all about the people and maximizing the peoples wealth and their skills. Localizing means employment. Globilizing means unemployment for most of the world except where the goods are manufacturered (And most now use robots) and where the ores are mined which eventually become those goods.

This world is in a mess. Schmaker was right when he said "Small is beautiful" (Nothing to do with the racing car driver). Why didn't we listen?



kitesandtrainsandcats
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29 Mar 2021, 7:21 am

Mountain Goat wrote:
If anything, his ship getting stuck can be regarded as a very good thing as he found a problem that needs addressing that no one else found. If it wasn't for him, it would not have been found.


Actually, the Ever Given was not the first, second, or even third, ship to have a problem and block the canal;
https://www.businessinsider.com/the-sue ... ing-2021-3

Quote:
Another ship stopped the flow of traffic through the canal decades later, in 2004. The Tropic Brilliance, an oil tanker, got lodged in the waterway.

For three days, the ship was stuck and rescuers could not dislodge it.

The ship had to be refloated, a process that involves digging out and removing sand from alongside and under the boat to increase the presence of water around the vessel and get it to move.

The Suez Canal Authority is currently working to refloat the Ever Given.

"We got to dig deep to get it loose and then try to refloat the ship again. Nothing else will happen until it's done," one person involved with the effort told the Wall Street Journal.

In 2006, another boat got lodged in the waterway.

Sandstorms and high winds caused the Okal King Dor, a 93,000-ton cargo ship, to drift off at a wrong angle, leading to a temporary blockage in the canal.

Tugboats, however, were able to dislodge the cargo ship within eight hours. At the time, about 8% of all global trade went through the Suez Canal, considerably lower than the volume today.

Later, the 120-mile canal was disturbed in 2017 by another ship: the OOCL Japan.

The steering gear on the container ship malfunctioned, according to the Vessel Tracker, a website that tracks marine traffic and ships in real time. The malfunction caused the ship to veer perpendicular to its course and block the canal.

Within a few hours, tugboats were able to push it free.

Against the backdrop of these five incidents, Ever Given so far falls in the middle in terms of the length of time a blockage along the canal has ensued.


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jimmy m
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29 Mar 2021, 8:06 am

Mountain Goat wrote:
Is it the captains fault? Or is it the ship owners who made the vessel so big? Or is it those who look after the passageway for not ensuring large ships can pass through? Why is the blame assumed to be the captains fault? He entered the passageaay in good faith that his ship could get through and he had probably done it many times before. If anything, his ship getting stuck can be regarded as a very good thing as he found a problem that needs addressing that no one else found. If it wasn't for him, it would not have been found.


Actually I do not think the Captain is to blame.

Transiting the canal saves ships more than a week and many fuel costs compared with the longer route via the Cape of Good Hope. The canal is a huge money-spinner for the Egyptian government, earning it several billion dollars a year. When I went through on Maersk Kendal in 2010, as research for a book I wrote about the shipping industry, the transit cost $300,000. That fee included 14 hours of sedate trundling down what is actually rather a dull canal, once you’ve had an hour or so of excitement at seeing sand and palm trees, and realise you’ve got 13 more hours of them to go. It also included an obligatory “Suez crew”, who joined for the transit and had their own cabin, and a pilot who took control of the ship. This is standard procedure in modern shipping: ships often take on pilots in harbour areas or tricky passages because they have better local knowledge. Technically the pilot took command of the bridge, though the pilot we had was too busy eating his way through the entire menu, and dozing, to be particularly commanding. The second officer had to keep waking him up for instructions.

Although the official reason given so far for the Ever Given’s plight is that it was blown sideways by wind, I do wonder. In the vast majority of maritime accidents, human error is at fault. And no wonder: seafarers, working in ever smaller crews on ever larger ships, are knackered. Most on my journey were old enough to remember when they could stop for lunch in port. Now, ships are rarely in port for more than several hours, and those are busy. As we entered the canal, transiting south with our mostly empty boxes to collect made-in-China consumables and essentials such as medicine, the second officer was operating on three nights of three hours’ sleep, and would have no sleep during the transit. There is, as the Ever Given demonstrates, much to look out for during the passage.


Source: I've sailed the Suez canal on a cargo ship – it's no wonder the Ever Given got stuck

So what is the solution? It is to build a larger canal. If the Chinese can dredge sand from the bottom of the ocean and create an island out of nowhere, surely the technology exists to make a larger canal.

After all the canal was first opened over a hundred and fifty years ago in 1869. Sounds like it is time for an infrastructure modernization effort. Look at our highways. They are two lanes for a reason. If the canal was two canals, one north-south passageway and the other south-north passageway that would significantly increase throughput.


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29 Mar 2021, 8:50 am

They must have lubed it down with some Slippery Stuff.


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Mountain Goat
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29 Mar 2021, 9:14 am

Misslizard wrote:
They must have lubed it down with some Slippery Stuff.


WD40



goldfish21
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29 Mar 2021, 9:50 am

^We also have Marine Pilots here that navigate coastal waters. They've very highly knowledgeable, skilled, and paid. It's a dangerous high stakes job. They're flown to ships via helicopter and sometimes have to jump & tumble on ship decks in rough seas. Then they have to pilot ships through extremely difficult to navigate coastal waters full of rocks and currents and other hazards. Neat job - I know a guy who's son is training for it. $300k/year job I hear, too.

jimmy m wrote:
So what is the solution? It is to build a larger canal. If the Chinese can dredge sand from the bottom of the ocean and create an island out of nowhere, surely the technology exists to make a larger canal.

After all the canal was first opened over a hundred and fifty years ago in 1869. Sounds like it is time for an infrastructure modernization effort. Look at our highways. They are two lanes for a reason. If the canal was two canals, one north-south passageway and the other south-north passageway that would significantly increase throughput.


Fewer humans with lower demand for plastic crap from around the world. There are more people alive today than have Ever Died. We don't need more efficient ways to ship junk, we need less demand for junk to ship. The Earth cannot produce renewable resources as fast as we're depleting them. And people who are alive today need to consume less crap, not ever more with a "solution," of ripping a wider scar in the Earth to float crap on boats.


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29 Mar 2021, 9:55 am

I have a silly idea ... why not run some dredging machinery through the canal every month or so to keep it deep?



goldfish21
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29 Mar 2021, 10:10 am

Fnord wrote:
I have a silly idea ... why not run some dredging machinery through the canal every month or so to keep it deep?


Pretty sure it's plenty deep in the middle where ships are supposed to travel.. but how can the shores be expected to be sheer drops and just as deep? Problem is that wind kicked a 400m long vessel sideways. If the canal is to be large enough for a ship like that to make a loop right around, well, it'd have to be WAY wider.. probably a whole lot simpler to just limit the length of ships to 350m or whatever. OR just deal with a one-in-a-Million situation like this should it ever occur again.


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29 Mar 2021, 10:17 am

goldfish21 wrote:
Fnord wrote:
I have a silly idea ... why not run some dredging machinery through the canal every month or so to keep it deep?
Pretty sure it's plenty deep in the middle where ships are supposed to travel.. but how can the shores be expected to be sheer drops and just as deep? Problem is that wind kicked a 400m long vessel sideways. If the canal is to be large enough for a ship like that to make a loop right around, well, it'd have to be WAY wider.. probably a whole lot simpler to just limit the length of ships to 350m or whatever. OR just deal with a one-in-a-Million situation like this should it ever occur again.
Did the builders just dig a long ditch through the sandy desert and hope it would not fill in again?

Did they not line the trench with concrete walls to hold back the dirt and provide a water-tight channel?



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29 Mar 2021, 10:27 am

Fnord wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
Fnord wrote:
I have a silly idea ... why not run some dredging machinery through the canal every month or so to keep it deep?
Pretty sure it's plenty deep in the middle where ships are supposed to travel.. but how can the shores be expected to be sheer drops and just as deep? Problem is that wind kicked a 400m long vessel sideways. If the canal is to be large enough for a ship like that to make a loop right around, well, it'd have to be WAY wider.. probably a whole lot simpler to just limit the length of ships to 350m or whatever. OR just deal with a one-in-a-Million situation like this should it ever occur again.
Did the builders just dig a long ditch through the sandy desert and hope it would not fill in again?

Did they not line the trench with concrete walls to hold back the dirt and provide a water-tight channel?


Considering the photos of an excavator digging sand away from the ship.. no, there aren't concrete liners. Why would you do that for 120 miles on each side when you can just dig the middle deep enough and tell ship captains to keep to the middle? :?

Also, I guarantee there weren't any 400m long ships-o-greed in existence in 1869 when the canal was completed.


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29 Mar 2021, 10:36 am

goldfish21 wrote:
... no, there aren't concrete liners. Why would you do that for 120 miles on each side when you can just dig the middle deep enough and tell ship captains to keep to the middle?
Probably because...
goldfish21 wrote:
... there weren't any 400m long ships-o-greed in existence in 1869 when the canal was completed.
[color=black]Maybe if some of those Saudi sheiks would invest some of their oil money into digging a wider, deeper, concrete-lined canal alongside the current one, they could make even more money charging shipping companies to ship the sheiks' oil through the sheiks' new canal?

:shrug: Maybe I should just go back to designing a better red-light camera...



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29 Mar 2021, 10:39 am

Even the Saudis are selling off shares in their oil company - the world's most profitable company.. and you don't do that if you think it's going to remain so over the long term.

$ is better spent building solar farms and wind/river/tidal power plants than pipelines or other oil shipping routes.


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