Trial of Derek Chauvin, who Killed George Floyd

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Fnord
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23 Apr 2021, 4:23 pm

auntblabby wrote:
somehow a culture of self-policing must be instituted among the police. ...
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?


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cyberdad
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23 Apr 2021, 7:18 pm

auntblabby wrote:
somehow a culture of self-policing must be instituted among the police. there has got to be a proper incentive that will pass muster with the courts. in the military, if one trooper screwed the pooch then the whole unit paid for it, thus providing a powerful incentive to carry one's weight and toe the line. something similar needs to happen with our police culture.


I agree with this, There is an underlying cultural problem (identified in the move "Training Day") where new recruits feel compelled to accept corrupt practices in the police precinct observed in their senior officers.

Getting back to the topic, Chauvin's attitude is pretty transparent, treat the local crims with contempt and you'll get respect by employing fear. I was watching a video documentary on the evolution of the US police-force and I was shocked to learn that the original purpose of the fledgling/early police force was to enforce slavery in all US states, I think the culture that you see in the modern US police has its roots in this evil practice.

The prison-industrial complex continues proxy-slavery of black people who are disproportionally represented in the prison population. Until these underlying issues are addressed this police culture will continue. Like psychological and physical abuse in the military it will be kept "under wraps" by a code of secrecy.

The invention of mobile phones mean't Chauvin was caught on film which is the only reason he's going to jail. It was not the first time he abused his positon, the right wingers defending him conveniently avoid mentioning that Chauvin is a repeat offender.



auntblabby
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23 Apr 2021, 11:44 pm

Fnord wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
somehow a culture of self-policing must be instituted among the police. ...
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

how do they do it in more civilized nations such as sweden [which has a bona fide professional police force that makes ours look like keystone cops]? first of all, no more hiring 100 iq sociopaths, vastly reduced hiring of ex-combat who see us "civilians" as just another insurgent group to occupy, make the field more attractive to smarter higher-quality people by dint of a clean ethical force and clean ethical management with transparent impeccability, in addition to vastly improved pay. start with moral candidates vetted by other proven moral candidates [evaluation board of clean retired cops from other precincts]. the process of self-insurance would eventually weed-out bad apples that slipped through. this would be aided by a national registry of blackballed bad cops. instill a more patriotic force by making citizen-police [serving their own neighborhoods] via a reserve duty system similar to the military- weekend citizen cops, if you will. an all-volunteer citizen review panel must be a part of this. and just as how military and air-traffic control are not allowed to unionize, neither should the police, DEFANG THOSE POLICE UNIONS which are the single biggest obstacle to all reforms.



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24 Apr 2021, 9:09 am

cyberdad wrote:
The invention of mobile phones mean't Chauvin was caught on film which is the only reason he's going to jail. It was not the first time he abused his positon, the right wingers defending him conveniently avoid mentioning that Chauvin is a repeat offender.
Yes - "citizen journalism" has caught indefensible police activity in the UK, with a similar background. This was in 2009 - mobile phone video was relatively rare and has improved considerably since then; now, there are high quality eyes everywhere.



More video:
https://www.channel4.com/news/new-cctv- ... inson-died

Full story:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Ian_Tomlinson


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funeralxempire
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24 Apr 2021, 12:21 pm

Speaking of him being a repeat offender...

https://news.yahoo.com/doj-weighing-add ... 23431.html

Quote:
DOJ weighing additional charges against Derek Chauvin for using force on Black teen in 2017

Scrutiny of Derek Chauvin, the former Minneapolis police officer found guilty earlier this week of murdering George Floyd, may continue even after Tuesday’s verdict.

The Department of Justice is reportedly still weighing whether to bring additional charges against Chauvin relating to a 2017 incident, where he allegedly use similar types of manoeuvres as he did on Mr Floyd, including a knee on the neck, against a 14-year-old Black teenager, ABC News reports.

Last year, as state prosecutors prepared their case against Chauvin for the murder of Mr Floyd, they sought to introduce evidence relating to the 2017 arrest. According to a court filing, in that incident, a 14-year-old Black boy was reportedly slow to comply with officers’ instructions, so Chauvin allegedly grabbed him by the throat, forced him to the ground, and put a knee into his neck and back, kneeling on top of him for nearly 17 minutes as the boy complained he couldn’t breathe.

The circumstances are reminiscent of Chauvin’s fatal arrest of Mr Floyd, where the officer and two colleagues knelt on Mr Floyd’s neck and back for more than 9 minutes, as the man told police he couldn’t breathe 27 times.

“He could not breathe. And just like with Floyd, Chauvin ignored those pleas and refused to provide medical assistance,” prosecutors wrote at the time.

The Hennepin County Court ultimately rejected the introduction of that past case as evidence into the Chauvin trial, but the DOJ is pressing on in considering charges. In February, as the George Floyd murder trial continued, the federal government convened a grand jury hearing that included witness testimony about Mr Chauvin’s past use of force.

It’s not the first time Chauvin has been accused of excessive force. Though it was largely kept out of the trial, Chauvin had a long record of using force, often against people of colour, which continued through the days just before he arrested George Floyd and resulted in 22 complaints or internal investigations over his 19 years on the force, but only one formal instance of discipline. His conviction is believed to be just the second time an on-duty Minnesota police officer has been convicted of murder in the state’s history, and the first time for a white officer.

He reportedly was ready to accept a plea deal before his trial began if he could avoid federal civil rights charges, The New York Times reported, before the previous US attorney William Barr scuttled the deal, saying the investigation against Chauvin needed more time to proceed.

The potential federal charges come amid broader scrutiny of the Minneapolis Police Department in the wake of the George Floyd killing.

After months of community members demanding federal scrutiny of the department, this week, the DOJ announced it would conduct a so-called “pattern or practice” investigation of the MPD to see if had engaged in unconstitutional or unlawful police practices.

Such investigations are often the prelude to federal consent decrees with police departments, legally binding court-sanctioned agreements between the government and local police forces to change their practices.


I wonder how many other repeat offenders are roaming the streets right now.


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24 Apr 2021, 5:20 pm

GGPViper wrote:
TheRobotLives wrote:
For two of these cops, Lane and Kueng, it was their first week on the job.

Chauvin was their boss.

Who would stand up to their boss on their first week on the job?

People who have one of these would:

Image

It's way more than that.

Minneapolis police appear to have a 12 month probationary period where they can be terminated suddenly for non-compliant behavior.
https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/44.10


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24 Apr 2021, 8:42 pm

TheRobotLives wrote:
GGPViper wrote:
TheRobotLives wrote:
For two of these cops, Lane and Kueng, it was their first week on the job.

Chauvin was their boss.

Who would stand up to their boss on their first week on the job?

People who have one of these would:

Image

It's way more than that.

Minneapolis police appear to have a 12 month probationary period where they can be terminated suddenly for non-compliant behavior.
https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/44.10


I think you are missing the point. Probation isn't a green light to look the other way if your superior officer is murdering somebody. I appreciate probationary officers might feel compelled to obey their superior officer but they would have done preliminary training and known what Chauvin did was slowly murder George Floyd. The three officers are really dumb in that they knew they were also filmed doing nothing.

This precisely illustrates how corrupt and unethical conduct in the force is normalised in junior cops and is actually as equally scary as Chauvin's conduct caught on camera.

Your attempt to excuse the police officers conduct is actually quite bizzare because a normal reasonable human being would have tried to stop Chauvin from killing Floyd when he called out "I can't breath" and intervened when Chauvin prevented a paramedic from administering first aid.

It begs the question whether police recruits undergo mandatory psychological testing to screen for psychopathic tendencies as I suspect the three cops being asian and caucasian appear to have no empathy toward a black person.



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24 Apr 2021, 10:43 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Your attempt to excuse the police officers conduct is actually quite bizzare because a normal reasonable human being would have tried to stop Chauvin from killing Floyd when he called out "I can't breath" and intervened when Chauvin prevented a paramedic from administering first aid.

It begs the question whether police recruits undergo mandatory psychological testing to screen for psychopathic tendencies as I suspect the three cops being asian and caucasian appear to have no empathy toward a black person.

1. When an officer sees a fellow officer doing something shady, does the officer intervene, or report said officer?

2. Or looks the other way, doesn't stick their neck out, doesn't get labeled as *trouble maker* or *rat*, doesn't stir up problems?

To me, it seems like most officers would choose #2.

Example:
"If you snitch, your career is done’: Former Baltimore cop says he was harassed, labeled a 'rat' after attempt to root out police brutality"
https://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/ ... -1.2077632


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Last edited by TheRobotLives on 24 Apr 2021, 10:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

cyberdad
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24 Apr 2021, 10:51 pm

TheRobotLives wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Your attempt to excuse the police officers conduct is actually quite bizzare because a normal reasonable human being would have tried to stop Chauvin from killing Floyd when he called out "I can't breath" and intervened when Chauvin prevented a paramedic from administering first aid.

It begs the question whether police recruits undergo mandatory psychological testing to screen for psychopathic tendencies as I suspect the three cops being asian and caucasian appear to have no empathy toward a black person.

1. When an officer sees a fellow officer doing something shady, does the officer intervene, or report said officer?

2. Or do look the other way, don't stick my neck out, don't get labeled as *trouble maker* or *rat*, don't stir up problems?

To me, it seems like most officers would choose #2.

Example:
"If you snitch, your career is done’: Former Baltimore cop says he was harassed, labeled a 'rat' after attempt to root out police brutality"
https://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/ ... -1.2077632


And point number 2 is precisely why recruits need to be psychological tested for psychopathy and lack of empathy. Doctors get tested for such things because they are dealing with people's lives. Amazingly the policeforce give psychopaths weapons and tell them to make split second decisions on whether somebody lives or dies.



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29 Apr 2021, 9:51 pm

One thing I noticed about the trial, is unlike the movies, neither the side objected at any point during cross examination. Even during questions for witnesses that seemed completely irrevelant, both sides just let it go on, with neither objecting ever, at least not the long parts that I watched. I watched about half of it.

Is objecting during cross examination just something in the movies, and doesn't happen in real life?



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29 Apr 2021, 11:02 pm

cyberdad wrote:
TheRobotLives wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Your attempt to excuse the police officers conduct is actually quite bizzare because a normal reasonable human being would have tried to stop Chauvin from killing Floyd when he called out "I can't breath" and intervened when Chauvin prevented a paramedic from administering first aid.

It begs the question whether police recruits undergo mandatory psychological testing to screen for psychopathic tendencies as I suspect the three cops being asian and caucasian appear to have no empathy toward a black person.

1. When an officer sees a fellow officer doing something shady, does the officer intervene, or report said officer?

2. Or do look the other way, don't stick my neck out, don't get labeled as *trouble maker* or *rat*, don't stir up problems?

To me, it seems like most officers would choose #2.

Example:
"If you snitch, your career is done’: Former Baltimore cop says he was harassed, labeled a 'rat' after attempt to root out police brutality"
https://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/ ... -1.2077632


And point number 2 is precisely why recruits need to be psychological tested for psychopathy and lack of empathy. Doctors get tested for such things because they are dealing with people's lives. Amazingly the policeforce give psychopaths weapons and tell them to make split second decisions on whether somebody lives or dies.


I'd say what Robot is saying is a strong argument that no matter what happens to the three other officers here huge cultural changes need to be implemented within police departments. Fire everyone and don't hire back anyone who fails the tests you describe. Contract out policing to the state or a neighbouring jurisdiction in the interim as you rebuild the force. This approach as already been done.


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29 Apr 2021, 11:14 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
TheRobotLives wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Your attempt to excuse the police officers conduct is actually quite bizzare because a normal reasonable human being would have tried to stop Chauvin from killing Floyd when he called out "I can't breath" and intervened when Chauvin prevented a paramedic from administering first aid.

It begs the question whether police recruits undergo mandatory psychological testing to screen for psychopathic tendencies as I suspect the three cops being asian and caucasian appear to have no empathy toward a black person.

1. When an officer sees a fellow officer doing something shady, does the officer intervene, or report said officer?

2. Or do look the other way, don't stick my neck out, don't get labeled as *trouble maker* or *rat*, don't stir up problems?

To me, it seems like most officers would choose #2.

Example:
"If you snitch, your career is done’: Former Baltimore cop says he was harassed, labeled a 'rat' after attempt to root out police brutality"
https://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/ ... -1.2077632


And point number 2 is precisely why recruits need to be psychological tested for psychopathy and lack of empathy. Doctors get tested for such things because they are dealing with people's lives. Amazingly the policeforce give psychopaths weapons and tell them to make split second decisions on whether somebody lives or dies.


I'd say what Robot is saying is a strong argument that no matter what happens to the three other officers here huge cultural changes need to be implemented within police departments. Fire everyone and don't hire back anyone who fails the tests you describe. Contract out policing to the state or a neighbouring jurisdiction in the interim as you rebuild the force. This approach as already been done.


If it's good for recruiting practices in healthcare it will work in frontline areas like police, fire brigade and the army