Trial of Derek Chauvin, who Killed George Floyd

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ironpony
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21 Apr 2021, 8:19 pm

Yeah, that's what I thought. But I guess the argument from some, or the uncertainty of some, is that the Chauvin did not intend to kill and maybe it's manslaughter therefore, more so than murder?



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21 Apr 2021, 8:24 pm

ironpony wrote:
Yeah, that's what I thought. But I guess the argument from some, or the uncertainty of some, is that the Chauvin did not intend to kill and maybe it's manslaughter therefore, more so than murder?
Intent is largely irrelevant, except when determining the degree of murder -- first, second, third, whatever.  I think he should have been charged with First-Degree Homicide, which in some states carries the death penalty; but I was not in the courtroom.  The prosecutors probably went for the most severe conviction they were likely to get.

And they got it.


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21 Apr 2021, 8:24 pm

ironpony wrote:
Yeah, that's what I thought. But I guess the argument from some, or the uncertainty of some, is that the Chauvin did not intend to kill and maybe it's manslaughter therefore, more so than murder?


Chauvin's response immediately after Floyd's asphyxiation is strong indicator that he didn't care what he had done. There is also some indication he tried to prevent first aid to Floyd. If not the brave young girl who videotaped this monster he might be still walking the beat harassing other black people.

This also was a tell tale sign in Amber Guyger's conviction was her phone records indicate that immediately after shooting Botham Jean in his own apartment that she was sex talking with her boyfriend indicating a complete lack of concern for her victim.

Both deserve jail, and the US police deserve to be thoroughly investigated retrospectively for crimes against its own citizens



ironpony
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21 Apr 2021, 8:27 pm

Oh okay I see. Well the video I saw, the camera is shaking so much after Chauvin leaves Floyd, that I cannot see his reaction but I did not see that footage perhaps, and saw some other camera's footage.



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21 Apr 2021, 9:04 pm

Fnord wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Yeah, that's what I thought. But I guess the argument from some, or the uncertainty of some, is that the Chauvin did not intend to kill and maybe it's manslaughter therefore, more so than murder?
Intent is largely irrelevant, except when determining the degree of murder -- first, second, third, whatever.  I think he should have been charged with First-Degree Homicide, which in some states carries the death penalty; but I was not in the courtroom.  The prosecutors probably went for the most severe conviction they were likely to get.

And they got it.


While I believe what happened could be tried as first-degree it would have been a much bigger, harder case to present. I think they went with the strongest case because it was a slam-dunk.


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ironpony
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21 Apr 2021, 9:33 pm

Oh yes, that is what I meant, determining the degree.



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21 Apr 2021, 11:32 pm

I assume the other three moron cops who stood around smirking while GF was strangled will also be facing charges?



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22 Apr 2021, 4:50 am

cyberdad wrote:
I assume the other three moron cops who stood around smirking while GF was strangled will also be facing charges?


Those three cops who let it happen are facing charges of "aiding & abetting" Chauvin.

They will be tried together this August.

As for Chauvin, he's now in solitary confinement until likely his sentencing hearing this June.

IMO, Chauvin should consider engaging in an effort to think about what happened to GF, why he killed George Floyd, how not only to prepare himself for sentencing, but also how to prepare himself for what jail could be like.

It's very telling that Chauvin's wife didn't stand by him. Instead, she left him.

(It makes me wonder what Chauvin's wife and their kids might be thinking about this verdict.)

I've watched the video of the verdict being handed down onto Chauvin. Most of the time, his eyes were moving so fast it may have been an indication of two things:

He was scared being in a courtroom again as if he knew he was going to jail. He seemed like he was looking for help in order to be a free man and knowing that his freedoms were to be no more as the judge read the verdict.

He was remorseless and didn't care about what he did to George Floyd. In one part of the video, he looks at his lawyer and acts as if this was some sort of weird dream he was experiencing.


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22 Apr 2021, 5:05 am

AnonymousAnonymous wrote:
He was remorseless and didn't care about what he did to George Floyd. In one part of the video, he looks at his lawyer and acts as if this was some sort of weird dream he was experiencing.


His lack of remorse (even to the extent of trying to stop of a paramedic from offering first aid) is going to put a big target on his head for the rest of life.



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22 Apr 2021, 9:36 am

funeralxempire wrote:
Fnord wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Yeah, that's what I thought. But I guess the argument from some, or the uncertainty of some, is that the Chauvin did not intend to kill and maybe it's manslaughter therefore, more so than murder?
Intent is largely irrelevant, except when determining the degree of murder -- first, second, third, whatever.  I think he should have been charged with First-Degree Homicide, which in some states carries the death penalty; but I was not in the courtroom.  The prosecutors probably went for the most severe conviction they were likely to get.  And they got it.
While I believe what happened could be tried as first-degree it would have been a much bigger, harder case to present. I think they went with the strongest case because it was a slam-dunk.
The fact that he was convicted by a jury of his peers may indicate that the Toxic White Male culture is on the wane.


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22 Apr 2021, 11:16 am

AnonymousAnonymous wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
I assume the other three moron cops who stood around smirking while GF was strangled will also be facing charges?


Those three cops who let it happen are facing charges of "aiding & abetting" Chauvin.

For two of these cops, Lane and Kueng, it was their first week on the job.

Chauvin was their boss.

Who would stand up to their boss on their first week on the job?


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22 Apr 2021, 11:20 am

In the online cesspools of QAnon, followers are fanaticizing predictably racist conspiracy theories to explain away a verdict and a trial they view as simply another part of the "Deep State's" never-ending effort to take control of the country, calling the trial a sham, and labelling Chauvin as a "crisis actor" who was only role-playing a part in some grand conspiracy to dupe the American public and spark a race war as part of a "psyop" orchestrated by the Freemasons.

:roll: They left out the lizard people from Sirius B.

Source:
 This Vice News Article 


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22 Apr 2021, 11:42 am

TheRobotLives wrote:
AnonymousAnonymous wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
I assume the other three moron cops who stood around smirking while GF was strangled will also be facing charges?


Those three cops who let it happen are facing charges of "aiding & abetting" Chauvin.

For two of these cops, Lane and Kueng, it was their first week on the job.

Chauvin was their boss.

Who would stand up to their boss on their first week on the job?


I'm hoping they're able to use this as a teaching moment.

On the one hand, I'd of 100% defended any officer who used force against Chauvin to intervene, but that doesn't mean I don't understand that they would have felt conflicting obligations. Combine this with the fact that two of them were still in training I really feel uncomfortable throwing the book at those two for their failures.

In fact perhaps the most appropriate action to proceed as though it was any other failure to intervene while a murder was unfolding. I don't believe the other officers were accessories to murder but they certainly failed to act to prevent a criminal homicide that they were witness to.


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22 Apr 2021, 1:16 pm

I was deeply gratified by the verdict, for two reasons.

1. Justice was done. I watched about 80% of the trial on live coverage, and I am deeply convinced of the rightness of the verdict.

2. But secondarily, I predicted (as did many public officials, who in all states activated their National Guard) that a "not guilty" verdict would tear the streets of America up and quite possibly result in additional deaths.

SocOfAutism wandered into this topic and, I think, represented a wrong view, but she's generally an intelligent, thoughtful, well educated person. I'm inclined to believe she did not immerse herself in the specifics of the case, and was led astray by a digested and biased version.

Salad saying "since it's Ramadan I'm not going to outright call you stupid" but then doing just that was shooting from the mentally-ill hip. Play nice or get outta my thread!


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22 Apr 2021, 3:44 pm

BeaArthur wrote:
... SocOfAutism wandered into this topic and, I think, represented a wrong view, but she's generally an intelligent, thoughtful, well educated person. I'm inclined to believe she did not immerse herself in the specifics of the case, and was led astray by a digested and biased version...
What you describe is what trips me off on most of my rants on this website -- intelligent people who do not know all the facts, and who allow other, even less-informed people to do their thinking for them.


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22 Apr 2021, 9:30 pm

TheRobotLives wrote:
AnonymousAnonymous wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
I assume the other three moron cops who stood around smirking while GF was strangled will also be facing charges?


Those three cops who let it happen are facing charges of "aiding & abetting" Chauvin.

For two of these cops, Lane and Kueng, it was their first week on the job.

Chauvin was their boss.

Who would stand up to their boss on their first week on the job?


This might mitigate their sentencing but if it's true then they were damn unlucky to get a corrupt cop as their super.
It reminds me of the move "Training day" where Ethan Hawke's character ended up being trained by a dirty cop (brilliantly played by Denzel Washington).