Coronavirus originated in a lab requires investigation

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Pepe
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07 Sep 2021, 9:55 pm

MaxE wrote:
Pepe wrote:
As I said, China/CCP has no credibility, but this isn't new.
What totalitarian government can you trust?
Stalin's Soviet Union?
Nazi Germany?

One doesn't trust governments per se.

China may be more totalitarian than the US, but I don't think they're in the same league as Nazi Germany and the USSR under Stalin (but not after Stalin?).

They aren't more totalitarian than Belarus.

A lot of that perception is really cultural and it's a matter of which side you're on. Confucianism promotes a consensus-driven society. Japan might seem totalitarian to us if we were told to view them as an enemy. As for human rights, they are doing things the US has done earlier in its history, so I'm not that quick to judge.

Also the US may be on a short path to totalitarianism, let's see how things look 4 years from now. The irony is that the "conspirators" bringing this about are operating in full view of an impotent public, thumbing their noses at those who dread our future.


China/ccp:
Human rights abuses:
-Tibetans.
-Uighurs.
-Organ harvesting.
-Slave labour.
-Hong Kong "annexed" years earlier despite a legal arrangement.
-The merciless intimidation of Tawain.
-Big brother incarnate with surveillance in public via facial recognition technologies and a social credit/debit system, and even in private homes, to rewards those who blindly follow totalitarian mandates while punishing others who choose individuality.
-A legal system where 99% of defendants are found guilty.
-Journalists abducted without trial and some, never to be heard of again.
-Doctors who tried to inform the world of the dangers of the coronavirus disappearing or found dead.

You're right.
China/ccp is the bedrock of integrity.
The pinnacle of social egalitarianism. [sarcasm] 8)



Last edited by Pepe on 07 Sep 2021, 10:03 pm, edited 3 times in total.

UncannyDanny
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07 Sep 2021, 10:00 pm

Don't those people have EVER studied virology?! ! Like, AT ALL?! !

From what I've learned about viruses, they evolve into different kinds.

If that's true, then perhaps China was NOT directly responsible for the Covid-19 pandemic, and everyone else are just being intolerable scumbags about it! :roll:

Last I remembered, didn't people blame the Jews for the Black Plague?



Pepe
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07 Sep 2021, 10:03 pm

King0fSpades wrote:
MaxE wrote:
Pepe wrote:
As I said, China/CCP has no credibility, but this isn't new.
What totalitarian government can you trust?
Stalin's Soviet Union?
Nazi Germany?

One doesn't trust governments per se.

China may be more totalitarian than the US, but I don't think they're in the same league as Nazi Germany and the USSR under Stalin (but not after Stalin?).


Are you even familiar with China's Cultural Revolution?

https://www.britannica.com/event/Cultural-Revolution


:lmao:



Pepe
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07 Sep 2021, 11:37 pm

UncannyDanny wrote:
Don't those people have EVER studied virology?! ! Like, AT ALL?! !

From what I've learned about viruses, they evolve into different kinds.

If that's true, then perhaps China was NOT directly responsible for the Covid-19 pandemic, and everyone else are just being intolerable scumbags about it! :roll:

Last I remembered, didn't people blame the Jews for the Black Plague?


I suggest you do some research, son. 8)



MuddRM
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08 Sep 2021, 12:57 am

Pepe wrote:
magz wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Don't forget the involvement of fauci, daszak and W.H.O.. 8)

Apparently, you want it to be a global conspiracy.


I want nothing but the Truth, the whole Truth, and nothing but the Truth, me lord. 8)


You can’t handle the truth (and neither can anyone else)!



Pepe
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08 Sep 2021, 2:15 am

MuddRM wrote:
Pepe wrote:
magz wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Don't forget the involvement of fauci, daszak and W.H.O.. 8)

Apparently, you want it to be a global conspiracy.


I want nothing but the Truth, the whole Truth, and nothing but the Truth, me lord. 8)


You can’t handle the truth (and neither can anyone else)!




Brictoria
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08 Sep 2021, 3:19 am

Pepe wrote:
UncannyDanny wrote:
Don't those people have EVER studied virology?! ! Like, AT ALL?! !

From what I've learned about viruses, they evolve into different kinds.

If that's true, then perhaps China was NOT directly responsible for the Covid-19 pandemic, and everyone else are just being intolerable scumbags about it! :roll:

Last I remembered, didn't people blame the Jews for the Black Plague?


I suggest you do some research, son. 8)


From what I have seen, most of those speaking out against the "lab leak" theory regarding the source of the virus fall into the "man-made virus" conspiracy theory followers, and seem incapable of considering the possibility of "human error" - poorly fitted protective clothing, accident when handling naturally infected animals, accident when handling virus samples from captured animals, etc.

It's actually somewhat amusing that these people often go on to claim that saying it was from a lab is "racist" and would cause "hate" to be aimed at Chinese people (when a lab being the source would only reflect upon those who worked in, or were associated with, the lab), yet prefer to have the Chinese people associated with a "wet market" (which would likely have a worse result, given it would both reflect upon all who may possibly have shopped there, as well as on the citizens of a nation where this type of animal is consumed), rather than agreeing that it was probably simple human error\an accident with the handling of an animal which had been collected for testing, much as similar issues could occur in any country... Or maybe that's their intention?



Dox47
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08 Sep 2021, 3:50 am

Brictoria wrote:
From what I have seen, most of those speaking out against the "lab leak" theory regarding the source of the virus fall into the "man-made virus" conspiracy theory followers, and seem incapable of considering the possibility of "human error" - poorly fitted protective clothing, accident when handling naturally infected animals, accident when handling virus samples from captured animals, etc.


Huh, here it's mostly been the rad lib cookie cutter Democrats who've been screaming "conspiracy theory!" at the lab leak hypothesis, talking about it could even get your account locked on social media up until this spring or so. It really was like Jon Stewart gave them permission to acknowledge the idea by ranting about it on Colbert, which is a hilarious clip if you haven't seen it, if only for Colbert's visible discomfort as his onetime mentor tears into then conventional wisdom dogma.


Skip to 3:00 for the goodness.

Brictoria wrote:
It's actually somewhat amusing that these people often go on to claim that saying it was from a lab is "racist" and would cause "hate" to be aimed at Chinese people (when a lab being the source would only reflect upon those who worked in, or were associated with, the lab), yet prefer to have the Chinese people associated with a "wet market" (which would likely have a worse result, given it would both reflect upon all who may possibly have shopped there, as well as on the citizens of a nation where this type of animal is consumed), rather than agreeing that it was probably simple human error\an accident with the handling of an animal which had been collected for testing, much as similar issues could occur in any country... Or maybe that's their intention?


I've never been able to figure that one out either, but then it's not like these people usually make sense anyway.


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Pepe
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08 Sep 2021, 6:18 am

Brictoria wrote:
Pepe wrote:
UncannyDanny wrote:
Don't those people have EVER studied virology?! ! Like, AT ALL?! !

From what I've learned about viruses, they evolve into different kinds.

If that's true, then perhaps China was NOT directly responsible for the Covid-19 pandemic, and everyone else are just being intolerable scumbags about it! :roll:

Last I remembered, didn't people blame the Jews for the Black Plague?


I suggest you do some research, son. 8)


From what I have seen, most of those speaking out against the "lab leak" theory regarding the source of the virus fall into the "man-made virus" conspiracy theory followers, and seem incapable of considering the possibility of "human error" - poorly fitted protective clothing, accident when handling naturally infected animals, accident when handling virus samples from captured animals, etc.


To me, based on what I have learned since the beginning of the pandemic, it seems obvious that it was an accidental transmission from the lab to the community.
Diseases escaping from a lab has happened a disturbing number of times.

When the ccp realised what happened, they kept the transmissibility to humans a secret so they could muddy the waters in regard to responsibility and to give themselves time to ransack protective equipment throughout the world.
The latter is a proven fact, and the Australian government confiscated illegal shipments.
Presumably, other countries did the same.

The criminality of knowingly letting infected Chinese people travel throughout the world was probably to confuse the origin and to cripple other countries economically.
And they will get away with it.
What an obscenity.

Brictoria wrote:
It's actually somewhat amusing that these people often go on to claim that saying it was from a lab is "racist" and would cause "hate" to be aimed at Chinese people (when a lab being the source would only reflect upon those who worked in, or were associated with, the lab), yet prefer to have the Chinese people associated with a "wet market" (which would likely have a worse result, given it would both reflect upon all who may possibly have shopped there, as well as on the citizens of a nation where this type of animal is consumed), rather than agreeing that it was probably simple human error\an accident with the handling of an animal which had been collected for testing, much as similar issues could occur in any country... Or maybe that's their intention?


I have always been confused why being politically progressive necessitates defending China. :?



Pepe
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08 Sep 2021, 6:30 am

Dox47 wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
From what I have seen, most of those speaking out against the "lab leak" theory regarding the source of the virus fall into the "man-made virus" conspiracy theory followers, and seem incapable of considering the possibility of "human error" - poorly fitted protective clothing, accident when handling naturally infected animals, accident when handling virus samples from captured animals, etc.


Huh, here it's mostly been the rad lib cookie cutter Democrats who've been screaming "conspiracy theory!" at the lab leak hypothesis, talking about it could even get your account locked on social media up until this spring or so. It really was like Jon Stewart gave them permission to acknowledge the idea by ranting about it on Colbert, which is a hilarious clip if you haven't seen it, if only for Colbert's visible discomfort as his onetime mentor tears into then conventional wisdom dogma.


Skip to 3:00 for the goodness.



"A penguin kissed a turtle." :lmao:



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08 Sep 2021, 8:36 am

Pepe wrote:
MaxE wrote:
Pepe wrote:
As I said, China/CCP has no credibility, but this isn't new.
What totalitarian government can you trust?
Stalin's Soviet Union?
Nazi Germany?

One doesn't trust governments per se.

China may be more totalitarian than the US, but I don't think they're in the same league as Nazi Germany and the USSR under Stalin (but not after Stalin?).

They aren't more totalitarian than Belarus.

A lot of that perception is really cultural and it's a matter of which side you're on. Confucianism promotes a consensus-driven society. Japan might seem totalitarian to us if we were told to view them as an enemy. As for human rights, they are doing things the US has done earlier in its history, so I'm not that quick to judge.

Also the US may be on a short path to totalitarianism, let's see how things look 4 years from now. The irony is that the "conspirators" bringing this about are operating in full view of an impotent public, thumbing their noses at those who dread our future.


China/ccp:
Human rights abuses:
-Tibetans.
-Uighurs.
-Organ harvesting.
-Slave labour.
-Hong Kong "annexed" years earlier despite a legal arrangement.
-The merciless intimidation of Tawain.
-Big brother incarnate with surveillance in public via facial recognition technologies and a social credit/debit system, and even in private homes, to rewards those who blindly follow totalitarian mandates while punishing others who choose individuality.
-A legal system where 99% of defendants are found guilty.
-Journalists abducted without trial and some, never to be heard of again.
-Doctors who tried to inform the world of the dangers of the coronavirus disappearing or found dead.

You're right.
China/ccp is the bedrock of integrity.
The pinnacle of social egalitarianism. [sarcasm] 8)

But they hate America, and that makes them morally superior.



MaxE
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08 Sep 2021, 9:17 am

Mr Reynholm wrote:
Pepe wrote:
MaxE wrote:
One doesn't trust governments per se.

China may be more totalitarian than the US, but I don't think they're in the same league as Nazi Germany and the USSR under Stalin (but not after Stalin?).

They aren't more totalitarian than Belarus.

A lot of that perception is really cultural and it's a matter of which side you're on. Confucianism promotes a consensus-driven society. Japan might seem totalitarian to us if we were told to view them as an enemy. As for human rights, they are doing things the US has done earlier in its history, so I'm not that quick to judge.

Also the US may be on a short path to totalitarianism, let's see how things look 4 years from now. The irony is that the "conspirators" bringing this about are operating in full view of an impotent public, thumbing their noses at those who dread our future.


China/ccp:
Human rights abuses:
-Tibetans.
-Uighurs.
-Organ harvesting.
-Slave labour.
-Hong Kong "annexed" years earlier despite a legal arrangement.
-The merciless intimidation of Tawain.
-Big brother incarnate with surveillance in public via facial recognition technologies and a social credit/debit system, and even in private homes, to rewards those who blindly follow totalitarian mandates while punishing others who choose individuality.
-A legal system where 99% of defendants are found guilty.
-Journalists abducted without trial and some, never to be heard of again.
-Doctors who tried to inform the world of the dangers of the coronavirus disappearing or found dead.

You're right.
China/ccp is the bedrock of integrity.
The pinnacle of social egalitarianism. [sarcasm] 8)

But they hate America, and that makes them morally superior.


This sort of ranting and throwing out extreme accusations does nothing to advance the discussion. Quite possibly this thread should be locked for that reason.

BTW I gave some more thought to what I can remember learning about Belarus and have decided that Belarus is more totalitarian than China.

So I hope it's obvious to most people that describing a person who gives the Chinese government credit for being somewhat less totalitarian than Belarus as a "supporter" or "apologist" for the CCP is ridiculous.

OTOH it also seems to me the US is on a trajectory to become totalitarian in 5 years. Once the Republican Party regains control of Congress and the White House, they will present events of the last year or so as proof that serious restrictions on political activity are needed for the good of the country, so that what happened in November 2020 won't happen again and Americans can be safe.


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Mr Reynholm
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08 Sep 2021, 1:56 pm

It all comes back to defending one's own tribe doesn't it?
People's beliefs on this issue (like many others) seems to always fall in line with their own political identity.



Dox47
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08 Sep 2021, 3:16 pm

MaxE wrote:
OTOH it also seems to me the US is on a trajectory to become totalitarian in 5 years. Once the Republican Party regains control of Congress and the White House, they will present events of the last year or so as proof that serious restrictions on political activity are needed for the good of the country, so that what happened in November 2020 won't happen again and Americans can be safe.


Remind me again, which party is attempting to control state elections at the federal level, add additional states to the union that would guarantee them Senate dominance, break up the electoral college, and pack the Supreme Court so that they can rule unchallenged?


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08 Sep 2021, 5:40 pm

Fnord wrote:
The claim that "Coronavirus originated in a lab" is bogus.  Running the same investigation over and over again while expecting a different answer each time is a sign of insanity.  Sort of like those 11,000 votes trump kept asking for -- they never existed, either.


Is still a bogus? Even Biden demanded further investigation.

Why?



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08 Sep 2021, 5:43 pm

Leak from lab =/= man-made

The old Sars was accidentally leaked from lab too in China in 2004.

And oh they lied too about it at first back then.