Explaining the dangerous government overreach to aspie kids

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funeralxempire
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27 Apr 2021, 3:52 pm

Aspie1 wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
They get told that believing this crap is required to pwn the libs, so they do it.. re-elect republican grifters who then sell them out to corporate donors while lining their own pockets, rinse & repeat until the oligarchy is complete at the expense of the country being plunged ever further into debt.
I'll take the rich corporate donors over the government tyrants and the violent looters. It's better that having your store ransacked by criminals who will get away with it, because Democrats paid them do it.

The conservatives wanted to put hydroxychloroquinine, a low-cost, readily available drug, into the hands of the population. But no! The libs censored it out of existence, because they didn't want an easy Covid treatment to be released under Trump's presidency.


Science studied it and concluded it wasn't helpful and posed a risk. That's not censorship, that's debunking BS.

The right relies on getting you worked up over non-existent concerns because they have no agenda, no plan for the future, literally nothing but nostalgic dreams of a utopia that never actually existed. There's a quote often attributed to Mark Twain it's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. Whether or not he said it you're providing a case study in it.


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DW_a_mom
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27 Apr 2021, 7:45 pm

Aspie1 wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
They get told that believing this crap is required to pwn the libs, so they do it.. re-elect republican grifters who then sell them out to corporate donors while lining their own pockets, rinse & repeat until the oligarchy is complete at the expense of the country being plunged ever further into debt.
I'll take the rich corporate donors over the government tyrants and the violent looters. It's better that having your store ransacked by criminals who will get away with it, because Democrats paid them do it.

The conservatives wanted to put hydroxychloroquinine, a low-cost, readily available drug, into the hands of the population. But no! The libs censored it out of existence, because they didn't want an easy Covid treatment to be released under Trump's presidency.


I feel you have quite a few misconceptions here, but rather than argue all that let me point out something you probably were not aware of:

Hydroxychloroquine is an essential medication for those who suffer from rheumatoid arthritis, which my sister does. The drug can make the difference between being able to function, and having pain turn you into an invalid. Before it was scientifically proven NOT to be an actual, valid COVID-19 treatment, doctors, hospitals and pharmacies started to withhold hydroxychloroquine from the rheumatoid arthritis patients and set it aside for the expected COVID-19 surge. As a result, my sister endured a period of extra pain that interfered with her ability to function. There was a real cost to the impression the drug might help with COVID-19. A cost my sister would have accepted paying if it could be proven the drug was saving COVID-19 lives. That proof never came, nor proof it was actually helping at all. Thankfully that conclusion was reached swiftly enough that her period off the medication wasn't unbearably long. These decisions are never as easy as you were made to believe they are. There was no miracle, and even the hope of one wasn't without a real human cost. Keep that in mind next time someone tries to turn a medical treatment into a political football like Trump did with hydroxychloroquine. People paid a price for that, not that he gave a !@#^$&*! (obviously it still angers me).


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Aspie1
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27 Apr 2021, 7:48 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Science studied it and concluded it wasn't helpful and posed a risk. That's not censorship, that's debunking BS.
And which political party sponsored this alleged "science"? Hmm? Take a wild guess! :idea:

funeralxempire wrote:
The right relies on getting you worked up over non-existent concerns because they have no agenda, no plan for the future, literally nothing but nostalgic dreams of a utopia that never actually existed. There's a quote often attributed to Mark Twain it's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. Whether or not he said it you're providing a case study in it.
I can easily say that the left did something very similar. They hyped up a new cold virus. They pushed for shutdowns and lockdowns to wreck the economy and bankrupt small businesses. They created mass anxiety and depression. They paid violet looters to terrorize the American people. They destroyed people's social relationships to increase loyalty to themselves. All with the goal to undermine the sitting president and increase government control over the population. It's not much different than what Mao Zedong was doing during his Great Leap Forward. That's what I'd want to teach my hypothetical kids about! And if schools won't teach it, I will.



Last edited by Aspie1 on 27 Apr 2021, 7:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

funeralxempire
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27 Apr 2021, 7:54 pm

Aspie1 wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Science studied it and concluded it wasn't helpful and posed a risk. That's not censorship, that's debunking BS.
And which political party sponsored this alleged "science"? Hmm? Take a wild guess! :idea:


You keep insisting the science is all being faked and funded with an agenda and yet never present evidence to support it. At best the 'evidence' you've provided is just some other person making the same unsubstantiated claims.

Aspie1 wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
The right relies on getting you worked up over non-existent concerns because they have no agenda, no plan for the future, literally nothing but nostalgic dreams of a utopia that never actually existed. There's a quote often attributed to Mark Twain it's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. Whether or not he said it you're providing a case study in it.
I can easily say that the left did something very similar. They hyped up a new cold virus. They pushed for shutdowns and lockdowns to wreck the economy. They created mass anxiety and depression. They paid violet looters to terrorize the American people. They destroyed people's social relationships to increase loyalty to The State. All with the goal to undermine the sitting president and increase government control over the population. That's what I'd want to teach my hypothetical kids about!


Two main issues, one is that you're baselessly claiming that someone is paying people to protest in favour of civil rights in response to the murder of George Floyd and many others. Ever consider the possibility that maybe enough was just enough?

Further, you're dismissing the bulk of those protesters as 'violent looters' despite the fact that violence is often initiated by the police or by far-right counter-protesters assaulting civil rights protesters.

I know you're a fan of false narratives, but the only people who can follow your claims are people who've already bought into the bovine excrement peddled by your favourite propagandists.


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Aspie1
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27 Apr 2021, 9:11 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:
Hydroxychloroquine is an essential medication for those who suffer from rheumatoid arthritis, which my sister does. The drug can make the difference between being able to function, and having pain turn you into an invalid. Before it was scientifically proven NOT to be an actual, valid COVID-19 treatment, doctors, hospitals and pharmacies started to withhold hydroxychloroquine from the rheumatoid arthritis patients and set it aside for the expected COVID-19 surge. As a result, my sister endured a period of extra pain that interfered with her ability to function. There was a real cost to the impression the drug might help with COVID-19. A cost my sister would have accepted paying if it could be proven the drug was saving COVID-19 lives. That proof never came, nor proof it was actually helping at all. Thankfully that conclusion was reached swiftly enough that her period off the medication wasn't unbearably long. These decisions are never as easy as you were made to believe they are. There was no miracle, and even the hope of one wasn't without a real human cost. Keep that in mind next time someone tries to turn a medical treatment into a political football like Trump did with hydroxychloroquine. People paid a price for that, not that he gave a !@#^$&*! (obviously it still angers me).
I thought hydroxychloroquine was a drug for malaria, which is respiratory just like Covid. Either way, I'm sorry your sister had to go through that; she didn't deserve it. Still, anything with the word "science" sets off my BS detector, unless it's centuries-old knowledge or modern physics with no political vested interests, like planetary astronomy or natural gas generators.



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27 Apr 2021, 9:37 pm

Golly...

Yesterday, I was at work, but then I had to go to the bathroom. Does it blow your mind that I actually washed my hands before returning to work?

Crazy! Clearly, the threat of food born illnesses is just exaggerated by Big Soap to sell product. Since I can't see bacteria, then it obviously doesn't exist! Guess I'm just not as much of a "free spirit" as I used to be. /s


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salad
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27 Apr 2021, 10:04 pm

XFilesGeek wrote:
Golly...

Yesterday, I was at work, but then I had to go to the bathroom. Does it blow your mind that I actually washed my hands before returning to work?

Crazy! Clearly, the threat of food born illnesses is just exaggerated by Big Soap to sell product. Since I can't see bacteria, then it obviously doesn't exist! Guess I'm just not as much of a "free spirit" as I used to be. /s


Let me play devil's advocate. Washing hands is something that is naturally hygienic, uncumbersome, and doesnt restrict one's Civil Liberties and freedoms. There is virtually no harm of washing hands, even the water it uses is minuscule compared to the benefits to society of averting large scale unhygienic illnesses, and its been done for thousands of years in many enlightened societies and civilizations.

Restricting social distance, inhibiting the natural intercourse of humans amongst one another (I use the word intercourse in the broader sense of the word and not the sexual sense as some perverts may construe), forcing people to wear masks even if they are not able to and barring those who refuse to comply from entering most stores, even if they legitimately can't wear a mask due to medical exemption, tracking people using secretive apps and new Covid features on phones, arresting people for partying, locking down the entire world, and many of the other measures enforced during the pandemic, all of that seems like a massive overreach of government powers to abridge civil liberties not justified by the harms of the virus when such government overreach is unprecedented and cant be explained by a virus that while deadlier than the flu mostly kills the elderly.

Again Im just playing devil's advocate so before you roast me just know that I'm not pushing for anything one way or another.


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Aspie1
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27 Apr 2021, 10:22 pm

salad wrote:
Restricting social distance, inhibiting the natural intercourse of humans amongst one another (I use the word intercourse in the broader sense of the word and not the sexual sense as some perverts may construe), forcing people to wear masks even if they are not able to and barring those who refuse to comply from entering most stores, even if they legitimately can't wear a mask due to medical exemption, tracking people using secretive apps and new Covid features on phones, arresting people for partying, locking down the entire world, and many of the other measures enforced during the pandemic, all of that seems like a massive overreach of government powers to abridge civil liberties not justified by the harms of the virus when such government overreach is unprecedented and cant be explained by a virus that while deadlier than the flu mostly kills the elderly.
Spoken like a true conservative! 8) Thanks for helping me fight against Ms. XFilesGeek's straw man argument, even if you were just humoring me. This is what I was trying to explain since the first post, only to get drowned out by leftist propaganda.

Speaking of kids, while I was never keen on the idea of having one, the Election Infection was the last straw that persuaded me to get serious about getting a vasectomy. Bringing a child into today's world should be a crime. And since elective surgeries are resuming, maybe I should march into the nearest urology office and tell them to snip me. While chronic pain can be a side-effect, it's not much worse than the emotional pain of living under Democrat control or the physical pain from having three teeth pulled already.



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27 Apr 2021, 10:44 pm

Does anybody think they’re “faking it” in India?

Is it a “scamdemic” over there?



salad
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27 Apr 2021, 10:48 pm

Aspie1 wrote:
salad wrote:
Restricting social distance, inhibiting the natural intercourse of humans amongst one another (I use the word intercourse in the broader sense of the word and not the sexual sense as some perverts may construe), forcing people to wear masks even if they are not able to and barring those who refuse to comply from entering most stores, even if they legitimately can't wear a mask due to medical exemption, tracking people using secretive apps and new Covid features on phones, arresting people for partying, locking down the entire world, and many of the other measures enforced during the pandemic, all of that seems like a massive overreach of government powers to abridge civil liberties not justified by the harms of the virus when such government overreach is unprecedented and cant be explained by a virus that while deadlier than the flu mostly kills the elderly.
Spoken like a true conservative! 8) Thanks for helping me fight against Ms. XFilesGeek's straw man argument, even if you were just humoring me. This is what I was trying to explain since the first post, only to get drowned out by leftist propaganda.

Speaking of kids, while I was never keen on the idea of having one, the Election Infection was the last straw that persuaded me to get serious about getting a vasectomy. Bringing a child into today's world should be a crime. And since elective surgeries are resuming, maybe I should march into the nearest urology office and tell them to snip me. While chronic pain can be a side-effect, it's not much worse than the emotional pain of living under Democrat control or the physical pain from having three teeth pulled already.


I'm actually not a conservative since conservatives tend to hate Muslims and my family is Muslim, but I do believe in basic civil liberties and can reasonably understand the consternation from many conservatives that since the pandemic began Big Brother has run amok and that some of the ways civil liberties have been stripped are simply not justified by the virus.

Also I know that some of the coverage regarding Covid and the lockdown were biased. For example this tweet right here, from the same news source on the same day, kind of gave away the fact that there's something rotten and shady gong on about Covid reportage:

https://twitter.com/MrMoeOthman/status/ ... 04768?s=19

But im still not educated enough to have a strong opinion either way one way or another.


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27 Apr 2021, 11:35 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Aspie1 wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
They get told that believing this crap is required to pwn the libs, so they do it.. re-elect republican grifters who then sell them out to corporate donors while lining their own pockets, rinse & repeat until the oligarchy is complete at the expense of the country being plunged ever further into debt.
I'll take the rich corporate donors over the government tyrants and the violent looters. It's better that having your store ransacked by criminals who will get away with it, because Democrats paid them do it.

The conservatives wanted to put hydroxychloroquinine, a low-cost, readily available drug, into the hands of the population. But no! The libs censored it out of existence, because they didn't want an easy Covid treatment to be released under Trump's presidency.


Science studied it and concluded it wasn't helpful and posed a risk. That's not censorship, that's debunking BS.

The right relies on getting you worked up over non-existent concerns because they have no agenda, no plan for the future, literally nothing but nostalgic dreams of a utopia that never actually existed. There's a quote often attributed to Mark Twain it's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. Whether or not he said it you're providing a case study in it.

:heart: :heart: :heart: :heart:


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27 Apr 2021, 11:58 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:
The divisiveness that is being fed really distresses me. I believe we need a team of rivals battling it out towards compromise in order to achieve the best ideas to solve today’s insanely complex problems, but we aren’t in a space to get that.

Quote:
If you go to the southwest desert and catch 100 red fire ants as well as 100 large black ants and put them in a jar, at first, nothing will happen.

However, if you violently shake the jar and dump them back on the ground the ants will fight until they eventually kill each other.

The thing is, the red ants think the black ants are the enemy and vice versa, when in reality, the real enemy is the person who shook the jar.


salad wrote:
...cant be explained by a virus that while deadlier than the flu mostly kills the elderly.

So your grandparents don't matter?
Also, without any measures taken to prevent the virus from spreading, the hospitals become overcrowded and understaffed, and the death rate rises dramatically.
Also, the flu doesn't have a 30-80% chance of leaving you with permanent organ damage.
Also, newer mutations of the virus are severely affecting younger people.
Also, without any sort of protection from the virus, you're taking a bigger viral load, which is known to cause more severe symptoms.

salad wrote:
For example this tweet right here, from the same news source on the same day, kind of gave away the fact that there's something rotten and shady gong on about Covid reportage:

https://twitter.com/MrMoeOthman/status/ ... 04768?s=19

The majority of BLM protestors were wearing masks, and probably practice other safety measures in their daily lives.
The majority of MAGA supporters are COVID deniers, and threw away the free masks they were giving away at those Superspreader events.
It seems pretty clear-cut to me.


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salad
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28 Apr 2021, 12:03 am

SabbraCadabra wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
The divisiveness that is being fed really distresses me. I believe we need a team of rivals battling it out towards compromise in order to achieve the best ideas to solve today’s insanely complex problems, but we aren’t in a space to get that.

Quote:
If you go to the southwest desert and catch 100 red fire ants as well as 100 large black ants and put them in a jar, at first, nothing will happen.

However, if you violently shake the jar and dump them back on the ground the ants will fight until they eventually kill each other.

The thing is, the red ants think the black ants are the enemy and vice versa, when in reality, the real enemy is the person who shook the jar.


salad wrote:
...cant be explained by a virus that while deadlier than the flu mostly kills the elderly.

So your grandparents don't matter?
Also, without any measures taken to prevent the virus from spreading, the hospitals become overcrowded and understaffed, and the death rate rises dramatically.
Also, the flu doesn't have a 30-80% chance of leaving you with permanent organ damage.
Also, newer mutations of the virus are severely affecting younger people.
Also, without any sort of protection from the virus, you're taking a bigger viral load, which is known to cause more severe symptoms.

salad wrote:
For example this tweet right here, from the same news source on the same day, kind of gave away the fact that there's something rotten and shady gong on about Covid reportage:

https://twitter.com/MrMoeOthman/status/ ... 04768?s=19

The majority of BLM protestors were wearing masks, and probably practice other safety measures in their daily lives.
The majority of MAGA supporters are COVID deniers, and threw away the free masks they were giving away at those Superspreader events.
It seems pretty clear-cut to me.


Just a reminder that I was only playing devil's advocate


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SabbraCadabra
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28 Apr 2021, 12:34 am

salad wrote:
Just a reminder that I was only playing devil's advocate

Well I'm saying it anyway, just in case ;)


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28 Apr 2021, 7:24 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Does anybody think they’re “faking it” in India?

Is it a “scamdemic” over there?
Oh, I expect that was also down to "Democrats", "Leftists" etc.
That seems to be the common root of all evils worldwide according to some, sans evidence or even rational thinking.


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04 Aug 2021, 1:46 am

Aspie1 wrote:
Wow! Just wow! I'm saddened how the people on here all worship the government. Enjoy your new normal, folks. :roll: Teach your kids how to act when a police officer or a government official says "papers, please". Don't teach them how to keep their human dignity in the face of government overreach.

Meanwhile, I'll be dancing with a lady who makes up in the fun factor for what she lacks in "taking Covid seriously".


There are pretty much no more people on here that aren't pro-left or anti-conservative. I would give you that maybe some of the libertarians are still around.