Do we lack empathy or is it just different than NTs?

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Technic1
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05 Apr 2021, 5:03 am

I’m sure aspies have empathy what do you think?



XSara
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05 Apr 2021, 5:11 am

nts tend to have more empathy for other nts. people with autism tend to have more empathy for people with autism. we all lack empathy. nts just don't want to admit that because they consider themselves as the "norm". to fix this problem we have to know eachother better.



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05 Apr 2021, 5:13 am

JFC....we’re not just robots.....we’re human.



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05 Apr 2021, 5:15 am

I couldn't resist reposting this...

So, what is the definition of empathy?

Good question! Empathy means kind, caring and understanding.

Oh, right, well I'm generally a kind, caring and understanding person, and when someone is telling me their feelings I am a good listener, so I think I have empathy--

*Spits out drink* No, J! That is compassion, J! You have compassion.

Oh, right I see. Well, I usually like to comfort somebody if they're crying.

That, my friend, is sympathy, J. If you don't cry when someone else is crying, then you lack empathy. Empathy is the ability to feel what someone else is feeling.

Oh, I thought empathy meant kind, caring and understanding.

It does, J. *Sips drink*

I've been bullied a lot by neurotypicals, because they don't understand my autism, so they must lack empathy--

*Spits out drink* No, J! What are you, stupid? It means they DO have empathy. They do understand how you're feeling but they just choose to not understand.

So if I just chose to not understand how it feels to be someone else, I would still have empathy.

*Spits out drink* Wrong, J! You must always understand other people, whether you want to or not. That's empathy.

Well, not everyone can understand everyone's problems all the time.

No, no, J, empathy is understanding everybody's situations at any given time, no matter what the situation is.

But how can one choose to not understand? You either understand or you don't.

Because some people are just jerks, J.

Jerks with empathy?

Yes, J. But don't you ever be a jerk, because you would be lacking empathy. It's unkind to be a jerk. You should know that more than anyone, because you're autistic. You can't expect neurotypicals to understand that.

So, if empathy means kind, then jerks can't have empathy, because they're not being kind.

J, J, J! Empathy doesn't mean kind. You can be very kind but not have empathy. Empathy is recognising and understanding other people's mental states.

But neurotypicals can't seem to recognise or understand my mental state--

*Spits out drink* J! You can't expect other people to read your mind! They're not you. Only you know your own mind.

Oh...but I'm supposed to read their minds?

That's right, J.

So it seems to me that the definition of empathy varies depending on who you're talking about?

Now you're getting it, J. A neurotypical lacking emotional understanding is human nature. An autistic lacking emotional understanding is selfism. Ha. *Sips drink*

But autistics seem to understand each other.

That's right, because autistics can only feel empathy for those who have experienced the same as them, J. *Sips drink*

But then the same goes for neurotypicals, as they don't understand me.

Neurotypicals usually only feel empathy for those who have experienced the same as them. It does not mean they lack empathy.

But you just said autistics are the ones who can only have empathy for those with the same experience.

No, J. You just didn't read between the lines. If you had empathy, you'd understand that I'm trying to say that the majority of people lack empathy for those who haven't experienced the same.

So if an autistic lacks empathy for a neurotypical, the autistic is lacking empathy.

That's right, J. *Sips drink*

And if a neurotypical lacks empathy for an autistic, the neurotypical is lacking empathy.

*Spits out drink and chokes* No, J! The neurotypical still has empathy.

Oh, I see. But I usually can feel empathy for neurotypicals a lot of the time.

J! We've been through this! You are experiencing compassion and sympathy, not empathy.

Oh. Right.

I'm glad you understand now. But you being a kind, thoughtful and understanding person with a good listening ear and an understanding of other people, go and educate yourself on empathy to build up your empathy skills, or lack thereof. But don't expect people to understand you, otherwise you'll be a narcissist.

So I must understand neurotypicals, but they don't have to understand me.

Yes, J! It will be too much for them to understand you. It will make them feel tired, and you must respect that. Have a nice day, J.

I hope this has answered your question. :wink:


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05 Apr 2021, 5:46 am

Nts do not have empathy it is in their imagination.

Ie they often think i hate myself and am depressed when I don't and I am not....they live in their own world and their understanding is in their head but not in reality.

I despair of a world that expects pepole with disabilities to hate themselves because they are not like them or perfect enough. It is a global sickness.

Too much ego abound...

I have compassion but I don't always understand...i cant live in the world of another i get very tired from trying.

On saying that they can't live in my world either.

Empathy to my experience is not real but compassion is.



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05 Apr 2021, 5:58 am

I actually have more empathy than most NTs, I'm pretty darn sure, I just oftentimes don't know how to show it.


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05 Apr 2021, 6:09 am

I think some of this is not lack of empathy skills but us not paying attention to the other person because

1. We are hyper focused on our special interests
2. We are distracted due to sensory sensitivities
3. Our executive dysfunctioning makes multitasking difficult.

Or maybe that’s just me.


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05 Apr 2021, 6:15 am

Empathy or no empathy -- it's irrelevant if one expresses it wrong.
Or if one moves wrongly or gullible enough to be seen as suspicious. Or not having enough social skills to act on it.

Doesn't matter how much one can read and sympathize a person and no matter how good of intent -- awkward is still awkward. Annoying is still annoying -- it doesn't matter if one cannot help it.
Suspicious is still suspicious no matter how innocent or clueless. Gullible fools are still gullible fools -- that's how one sidedness works.


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Joe90
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05 Apr 2021, 6:29 am

I don't believe NTs lack empathy, I just think that both autistics and NTs have the same level of empathy and those that have less or more than average is just down to personality, not neurology. Women (autistic or allistic) have a slightly higher than average empathy than men, but it doesn't mean men lack empathy.


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carlos55
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05 Apr 2021, 6:40 am

When they talk about empathy from an autism point of view they mean the ability to see things from another persons perspective, which is supposedly lacking in autistic people.

I.e extreme example - Autistic person:

“I love cherry cola so everyone loves cherry cola I cannot perceive of a situation where someone would not love cherry cola.” “ What! you hate cherry flavor how can that be that doesn’t compute”

Unfortunately this is partly true of us evidenced by many ND advocates who view autism from their own perspective finding it hard to see how someone with more severe symptoms may have a different opinion to themselves in these matters.


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05 Apr 2021, 6:54 am

carlos55 wrote:
Unfortunately this is partly true of us evidenced by many ND advocates who view autism from their own perspective finding it hard to see how someone with more severe symptoms may have a different opinion to themselves in these matters.

I thought this is normal across the human pattern. :lol:

Where certain groups or even individuals claim to speak for the whole group they're representing, while ignoring individuals who do not have the same opinions or choice.



I'd say no.
The real case, instead, is how said autistics (the autistics you're referring) deny that they're no different from NTs in a collective sense.

Even empathy is complicated across NTs, as per status quo and dynamics in each individuals prioritize.
But that's because humans, as a whole, are not enlightened enough. Though, had came quite far looking back, it's still not enough.


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Technic1
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05 Apr 2021, 8:12 am

Do we lack empathy or is it just NTs???



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05 Apr 2021, 8:15 am

Technic1 wrote:
Do we lack empathy or is it just NTs???

My answer is both and that's how I look at it.


There's a term called 'double-empathy problem'. :lol:
That may solve whatever mystery you're pursuing.


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Technic1
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05 Apr 2021, 8:22 am

So what is it when you see someone about to injure themselves and your heart hurts? When it kind of ‘indents’
Does your heart hurt for other people!?!



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05 Apr 2021, 9:22 am

carlos55 wrote:
When they talk about empathy from an autism point of view they mean the ability to see things from another persons perspective, which is supposedly lacking in autistic people.

I.e extreme example - Autistic person:

“I love cherry cola so everyone loves cherry cola I cannot perceive of a situation where someone would not love cherry cola.” “ What! you hate cherry flavor how can that be that doesn’t compute”

Unfortunately this is partly true of us evidenced by many ND advocates who view autism from their own perspective finding it hard to see how someone with more severe symptoms may have a different opinion to themselves in these matters.


Nope. Plenty of NTs think this too. What about those who can't understand the fact that a lot of autistics don't like socialising? And the fact that NTs think everyone should be the same and get freaked out when someone is different instead of understanding that not everyone can think the same?


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05 Apr 2021, 10:53 am

Joe90 wrote:
carlos55 wrote:
When they talk about empathy from an autism point of view they mean the ability to see things from another persons perspective, which is supposedly lacking in autistic people.

I.e extreme example - Autistic person:

“I love cherry cola so everyone loves cherry cola I cannot perceive of a situation where someone would not love cherry cola.” “ What! you hate cherry flavor how can that be that doesn’t compute”

Unfortunately this is partly true of us evidenced by many ND advocates who view autism from their own perspective finding it hard to see how someone with more severe symptoms may have a different opinion to themselves in these matters.


Nope. Plenty of NTs think this too. What about those who can't understand the fact that a lot of autistics don't like socialising? And the fact that NTs think everyone should be the same and get freaked out when someone is different instead of understanding that not everyone can think the same?


Your possibly confusing lots of different things.

The ability to see things from another perspective is simply that, what the NT does about it is something else.

Good marketers know how to manipulate people by putting themselves in their shoes and tailoring their sales pitch accordingly. What they sell may be a con but they don’t care because that’s a different version of empathy more commonly thought of as simpathy and moral compass.

An NT may be able to put themselves in someone else’s shoes but completely ignore what they think possibly because they are high on the psychopathic scale. Think rich politician talking about poor people when he doesn’t want to help them.

The Sally Ann test measures this and your average autistic child fails the test as opposed to the average NT child.


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