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NoClearMind53
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12 Apr 2021, 6:41 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
2. They want to abolish the police but realize at this time that is not palatable so they use a less threatening word and the less threatening explanation of we want social workers in some situations rather than traditional policing. The idea is that these reforms will prepare the public for more substantial reforms, which will prepare the public for more radical reforms etc. until such time as the police are abolished.

Based on BLM/woke embrace of the revolutionary Critical Race Theory I think it a lot more about explanation two.

Only anarchists are for "abolishing" police. Most just don't want the function of police to become a private army to protect the wealthy from a growing destitute underclass. What happens when it's the job of police to push homeless people around to make certain environments more business friendly? Only people extremely devoid of empathy will choose to become police! That's how you get creeping fascism. If this country wants the extreme inequality and poverty pushed by the right, the business community will have to get used to camps and shanty towns smelling like urine like in the third world.



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14 Apr 2021, 8:46 pm

But it seems that a lot of this defund the police is a leftist agenda, but what is their motive for doing so though? Do they have more bigger plans, or what is their true reason?



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15 Apr 2021, 4:11 am

ironpony wrote:
But it seems that a lot of this defund the police is a leftist agenda, but what is their motive for doing so though? Do they have more bigger plans, or what is their true reason?

Revolution.

Defanging law enforcement of the government you want to overthrow is a good place to start.

The problem a lot of people have with the concept of "woke" being a revolution is that it does not look like a traditional revolution. There are no guerrilla armies or nothing that looks like the armed "alt-right" revolutionaries that staged the recent insurrection at the Capital. If you view America as born of white supremacy, that the Bill of Rights and elections were set up as deflections, that white supremacy, and fascism remain the defining features that openly and covertly, intentionally and unintentionally are behind almost every decision reform is inadequate, revolution is what's needed.


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15 Apr 2021, 12:56 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
ironpony wrote:
But it seems that a lot of this defund the police is a leftist agenda, but what is their motive for doing so though? Do they have more bigger plans, or what is their true reason?

Revolution.

Defanging law enforcement of the government you want to overthrow is a good place to start.

The problem a lot of people have with the concept of "woke" being a revolution is that it does not look like a traditional revolution. There are no guerrilla armies or nothing that looks like the armed "alt-right" revolutionaries that staged the recent insurrection at the Capital. If you view America as born of white supremacy, that the Bill of Rights and elections were set up as deflections, that white supremacy, and fascism remain the defining features that openly and covertly, intentionally and unintentionally are behind almost every decision reform is inadequate, revolution is what's needed.

But what happens after the police have been neutered and reduced to the level of "mall cop" and the people demand safety and security? This will lead to more of that dreaded "Inequality" we've heard so much about. The wealthy in their gated communities will be able to afford private security. The rest of the population will likely demand something be done giving the Federal government the freedom to put the military in charge of bringing order to the streets. A police state brought about by the Left's hatred of the police.



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15 Apr 2021, 11:25 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
ironpony wrote:
But it seems that a lot of this defund the police is a leftist agenda, but what is their motive for doing so though? Do they have more bigger plans, or what is their true reason?

Revolution.

Defanging law enforcement of the government you want to overthrow is a good place to start.

The problem a lot of people have with the concept of "woke" being a revolution is that it does not look like a traditional revolution. There are no guerrilla armies or nothing that looks like the armed "alt-right" revolutionaries that staged the recent insurrection at the Capital. If you view America as born of white supremacy, that the Bill of Rights and elections were set up as deflections, that white supremacy, and fascism remain the defining features that openly and covertly, intentionally and unintentionally are behind almost every decision reform is inadequate, revolution is what's needed.


But if the leftists want to overthrow the police, then it's just going to be more crime of course, unless the leftists are pro-crime?



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15 Apr 2021, 11:45 pm

ironpony wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
ironpony wrote:
But it seems that a lot of this defund the police is a leftist agenda, but what is their motive for doing so though? Do they have more bigger plans, or what is their true reason?

Revolution.

Defanging law enforcement of the government you want to overthrow is a good place to start.

The problem a lot of people have with the concept of "woke" being a revolution is that it does not look like a traditional revolution. There are no guerrilla armies or nothing that looks like the armed "alt-right" revolutionaries that staged the recent insurrection at the Capital. If you view America as born of white supremacy, that the Bill of Rights and elections were set up as deflections, that white supremacy, and fascism remain the defining features that openly and covertly, intentionally and unintentionally are behind almost every decision reform is inadequate, revolution is what's needed.


But if the leftists want to overthrow the police, then it's just going to be more crime of course, unless the leftists are pro-crime?


Perhaps the leftists would take other approaches towards crime reduction. If you address the causes of crime you reduce crime, you end up needing fewer cops.

Changing selling weed from being a criminal activity to a legitimate activity reduced crime, but it didn't require additional cops to accomplish. (for example)


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15 Apr 2021, 11:49 pm

Oh okay, but in this case we are talking about defunding I thought though, not changing laws of course. But I guess you mean more serious crimes should be handled by cops? But defunding can cause problems with that too, can't it?



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16 Apr 2021, 2:14 am

ironpony wrote:

But if the leftists want to overthrow the police, then it's just going to be more crime of course, unless the leftists are pro-crime?


Anarchists have presented models for public safety that replace traditional police forces. NonCompete's "How Would Anarchism Work pt. 3" is a good primer. Basically, there would still be people that fill the role of modern police, but they would be more democratic and accountable to the community. Greater emphasis would be put on solving the causes of crime, like poverty, wealth inequality, etc. Even anarchists aren't "pro-crime".



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16 Apr 2021, 8:42 am

Oh okay, so anarchists want to defund instead of reform, but not be pro-crime still, is what you mean?



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17 Apr 2021, 2:08 am

Anarchists want to replace the police with a fundamentally different institution/institutions that would solve the problems that police are supposed to.

Not that every person saying "defund the police" is even an anarchist. They're just the most extreme group I can think of that is saying that.



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17 Apr 2021, 10:04 am

Oh okay, but wouldn't a different institution be the same as the place if they are doing the same job?



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18 Apr 2021, 2:45 am

I suppose you could say so. They would just be "anarchist police." Instead of reforming the existing police force, many argue that the current police force would have to be abolished completely, and a new system built in its place. Because systemic problems are built into the foundation of the system. That's what "abolish the police" means, but it isn't very catchy.



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18 Apr 2021, 10:59 am

Oh okay, but I don't think is going to be such a thing as a perfect police force where not one member of that force will fall out of line ever. There are always going to be bad apples in any organization and I didn't think that a perfect flawless system could exist. But maybe I'm wrong?



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21 Apr 2021, 2:55 am

The argument is that the police, as they exist, have systemic issues. The way the system is organized produces and encourages the bad behavior. It isn't about individuals. When we talk about widespread societal issues you generally need to address systems, not individuals. Like how racism isn't the fault of individual racists, but is due to cultural tropes, law, wealth disparity, and other socioeconomic factors.

But yes, even an anarchist or socialist utopia would have bad actors. Changing our police force could greatly reduce the amount of bad actors in the system, though.



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27 May 2021, 9:13 pm

Oh okay, but it seems that a lot of the police forces in the US are cutting budgets though, instead of reforming. They are thinking the word defund actually means defund and not reform it seams, and are taking it literally it seems.



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27 May 2021, 9:22 pm

Sometimes, a situation might be better if a social worker is dispatched to a mental health situation, instead of a police officer.