I went from moral and pure to evil and dirty sinner
11 Apr 2021, 3:53 pm
kitesandtrainsandcats wrote:
salad wrote:
Now I have fallen so low, have lost my spiritual and otherwise formerly righteous self, have embraced hedonism and the path of evil, and now I feel like a rotten shell of my former self. ...
I've become depressed and miserable
I dont even feel alive anymore
I've become depressed and miserable
I dont even feel alive anymore
That sure sounds like a frustrating place to be.
Sorry that you have to go through that.
I'm not going to tell you that your path and how you feel are right or wrong; yet I am going to make some commentary.
First part of that commentary is a question: what is the chance that some of your current feelings come from a sense of guilt at failing to meet your own standards?
Second part of that commentary is that there is a long history of we human beings having trouble at achieving and sustaining purity and perfection, it often seems to be a task which is destined to fail.
Third part of that commentary is that I suggest taking to heart what Mountain Goat has said.
Every day of my life I live with guilt that im a failure and that ive failed myself. Every chocolate bar ive ever eaten, every single time ive ever drank a drink not water, every time my mind ever had a thought of attraction to the opposite sex, every single time ive ever slipped up and made a mistake, all of it is played on repeat in my mind and torments me. I remember all the dates in my life where I violated my rules and standards, and the t0rment it causes me is absolutely immense. I feel trapped and miserable, and I regret ever violating my rules
_________________
"One often meets his destiny on the road he takes to avoid it."
Master Oogway
11 Apr 2021, 3:54 pm
AprilR wrote:
I don't consider myself a religious person but i live somewhere where most of the population consider themselves muslim and they do all of these things that you mention. They lie, deceive, cheat, hurt, oh and also see women merely as potential mothers and homemakers. They also eat VERY unhealthily, mostly fat and pastries and bread.
So i feel like, if you judge yourself this harshly you should also judge those other people. Obviously things like hurting someone else, violence and stuff should be judged. But if you consider this the same as drinking juice, it simply doesn't stop. You have to judge every single person on Earth.
And i feel like nobody's in any position to judge everyone. Because nobody can be perfect aside from Allah (God)
So i feel like, if you judge yourself this harshly you should also judge those other people. Obviously things like hurting someone else, violence and stuff should be judged. But if you consider this the same as drinking juice, it simply doesn't stop. You have to judge every single person on Earth.
And i feel like nobody's in any position to judge everyone. Because nobody can be perfect aside from Allah (God)
Attaining spiritual purity means only judging oneself and not judging others. Thats the standard I live by.
_________________
"One often meets his destiny on the road he takes to avoid it."
Master Oogway
11 Apr 2021, 3:55 pm
Mountain Goat wrote:
I do not know what religious beliefs you have.
I need to say something from a Christian perspective.
First I have tried what you have tried. It does not work. If we try to live perfect lives we come crashing down and end up in a mess.
I need to tell you something. Even if you are the worst sinner who ever lived, Jesus loves you soo much that He died for you.
So look to Jesus, put your hands in His and shake yourself free from the mess you are in as Jesus has a better way for you. It is not about your righteous living as by your own efforts, you will never make it. Jesus has taken your place and has already paid for your sin. All of it. Past, present and future sin. All you have to do is have faith. Nothing more. Just faith. And faith is easy. You do not have to do anything! You just have to be who you are!
I need to say something from a Christian perspective.
First I have tried what you have tried. It does not work. If we try to live perfect lives we come crashing down and end up in a mess.
I need to tell you something. Even if you are the worst sinner who ever lived, Jesus loves you soo much that He died for you.
So look to Jesus, put your hands in His and shake yourself free from the mess you are in as Jesus has a better way for you. It is not about your righteous living as by your own efforts, you will never make it. Jesus has taken your place and has already paid for your sin. All of it. Past, present and future sin. All you have to do is have faith. Nothing more. Just faith. And faith is easy. You do not have to do anything! You just have to be who you are!
Thanks for your advice. Unfortunately I am not a christian nor could be one since its tenets contradict my path, and im not able to accept salvation for someone else's sacrifice since to me thats a cop out of actually trying to live as best as one can.
_________________
"One often meets his destiny on the road he takes to avoid it."
Master Oogway
11 Apr 2021, 3:57 pm
hurtloam wrote:
I can't help wondering if you've developed some sort of issue like OCD or an eating disorder and you're using religion to punish yourself the way someone would use purging after binge eating to punish themselves or staving themselves to punish themselves.
You need to seek help from a professional.
Not sure what country you are in but here is a list of crisis helplines by country.
List of crisis lines
You need to seek help from a professional.
Not sure what country you are in but here is a list of crisis helplines by country.
List of crisis lines
If you are curious I do have OCD, but that doesn't take away from the fact that the rules I live by are the only way I could live. eating junk, drinking anything but water, and making other evil sins are abominations in my eye that are major sins, and I feel terrible of succumbing to that this week after a failed suicide attempt
_________________
"One often meets his destiny on the road he takes to avoid it."
Master Oogway
11 Apr 2021, 4:17 pm
salad wrote:
Mountain Goat wrote:
I do not know what religious beliefs you have.
I need to say something from a Christian perspective.
First I have tried what you have tried. It does not work. If we try to live perfect lives we come crashing down and end up in a mess.
I need to tell you something. Even if you are the worst sinner who ever lived, Jesus loves you soo much that He died for you.
So look to Jesus, put your hands in His and shake yourself free from the mess you are in as Jesus has a better way for you. It is not about your righteous living as by your own efforts, you will never make it. Jesus has taken your place and has already paid for your sin. All of it. Past, present and future sin. All you have to do is have faith. Nothing more. Just faith. And faith is easy. You do not have to do anything! You just have to be who you are!
I need to say something from a Christian perspective.
First I have tried what you have tried. It does not work. If we try to live perfect lives we come crashing down and end up in a mess.
I need to tell you something. Even if you are the worst sinner who ever lived, Jesus loves you soo much that He died for you.
So look to Jesus, put your hands in His and shake yourself free from the mess you are in as Jesus has a better way for you. It is not about your righteous living as by your own efforts, you will never make it. Jesus has taken your place and has already paid for your sin. All of it. Past, present and future sin. All you have to do is have faith. Nothing more. Just faith. And faith is easy. You do not have to do anything! You just have to be who you are!
Thanks for your advice. Unfortunately I am not a christian nor could be one since its tenets contradict my path, and im not able to accept salvation for someone else's sacrifice since to me thats a cop out of actually trying to live as best as one can.
Do not be too hard on yourself because the human race has never been able to avoid doing wrong ever since the first humans set foot on this earth.
It is something where in many religions that aim for righteous living will never make it, and it is not for the lack of trying, so please do feel bad that you make mistakes and mess up in this endeavor.
Aiming for doing the right thing is a good plan, but do not be too hard on yourself if you fail.
The Christian message is slightly different in a way as it recognizes that we fail and makes a way to be saved from that, but we are all free to choose which path we want to follow.
Regardless of which path, please look after yourself and do not be too hard on yourself. I know it can feel awful when we mess up, but pick yourself back up, dust yourself down and start to enjoy again. This life is for living. Every day is a new day!
_________________
.
11 Apr 2021, 4:19 pm
salad wrote:
AprilR wrote:
I don't consider myself a religious person but i live somewhere where most of the population consider themselves muslim and they do all of these things that you mention. They lie, deceive, cheat, hurt, oh and also see women merely as potential mothers and homemakers. They also eat VERY unhealthily, mostly fat and pastries and bread.
So i feel like, if you judge yourself this harshly you should also judge those other people. Obviously things like hurting someone else, violence and stuff should be judged. But if you consider this the same as drinking juice, it simply doesn't stop. You have to judge every single person on Earth.
And i feel like nobody's in any position to judge everyone. Because nobody can be perfect aside from Allah (God)
So i feel like, if you judge yourself this harshly you should also judge those other people. Obviously things like hurting someone else, violence and stuff should be judged. But if you consider this the same as drinking juice, it simply doesn't stop. You have to judge every single person on Earth.
And i feel like nobody's in any position to judge everyone. Because nobody can be perfect aside from Allah (God)
Attaining spiritual purity means only judging oneself and not judging others. Thats the standard I live by.
I understand. I am sorry if i sounded a bit harsh in my response. It's just that i want you to be happy and comfortable with yourself. I wanted to say that i see you as a good person with a strong moral compass and you deserve to be happy.
11 Apr 2021, 4:30 pm
I have a fair amount of experience with people who subscribe to various religious perspectives.
Including some who belonged to cults and some who subscribe to occult beliefs.
Some of the people who i knew also had values not dissimilar to yours, which often gave them a sense of righteousness or self worth over the rest of the world that they perceived as "sinners" over trivial matters
(such as drinking juice / soda = sinner, which means if a person of a good nature drank soda / juice, then it would make them evil, while if a person who had an evil materialistic nature who committed crimes such as murder or break up marriages etc., because they drank water instead of juice, then their actions were right, as they were righteous because they drank water rather than juice and were part of a religious group who perceived them self as righteous.... etc).
I would call the way that such people viewed the world is what psychologists may call a "religiosity" model of perception, which could also be considered a psychological disorder.
I would also say that where such behaviourism occurs, there can also likely have a comorbidity present from other complex psychological disorders including schizophrenia.
I used to be a friend of a strange man who said he was a Hare Krsna. The Hare Krsna's follow various holy texts from Indian History as their guidance in life. There are some texts that may suggest that water is pure and the best thing to drink, being pure, it is God in a food stuff so to speak.
So, ideally this would be good to drink.
However, if you were to not drink water, I do not think you would not suddenly turn into a mass murderer serial killer molester monster. I think it takes more than that to upset God.
I would say that it is a persons actions and words are what God refers to in order to judge the individual and his/her right for God's forgiveness.
Personally, i think that it would take more than simply not drinking water, in order to upset God.
If your sins are of course a lot worse than simply not drinking water, then, perhaps you need to explain this
to the police or psychologists, or priests, who may be able to help you rationalise what you have done and reconcile with God/people/society.
If you have committed other crimes, against people, then it is for God to judge you not me.
And the people who you have committed the crimes against, as it is there loss.
However, I can not speak for these people nor can I speak for God.
I do not think suicide is a particularly good solution, even if did horrible things.
God could still make use of you in this world, if you can find God, and offer sincerely to help him.
>>>> ALSO >>>>
For people who have created "their own" religion.
May I say that you should ask yourself as to what grounds do you have to say that your beliefs are what God wants you to believe? What is the grounds for your belief system. If you have just decided based on subjective thoughts, and you have no concrete evidence that there is any divine approval for your beliefs, and your belief system is making you want to commit suicide, then surely, you would be committing suicide based on no reason. In which case, perhaps breaking rules that were created by yourself and not God would be a better choice than committing suicide rather than break such made up rules.
Just an idea.
If you are alive, perhaps you can still do something worth while with your life and do what you can to help others who are in a worse state than yourself.
11 Apr 2021, 7:42 pm
salad wrote:
I don't follow any organized religion. Mine is way of life based on the spiritual path I've found, which is mostly 90% Islam with the other 10% my own values on right and wrong.
It looks like your "own values" may be stricter than most varieties of Islam, and perhaps too strict for your own mental health? Is there a local mufti where you live, whom you could discuss this stuff with?
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11 Apr 2021, 8:13 pm
madbutnotmad wrote:
I have a fair amount of experience with people who subscribe to various religious perspectives.
Including some who belonged to cults and some who subscribe to occult beliefs.
Some of the people who i knew also had values not dissimilar to yours, which often gave them a sense of righteousness or self worth over the rest of the world that they perceived as "sinners" over trivial matters
(such as drinking juice / soda = sinner, which means if a person of a good nature drank soda / juice, then it would make them evil, while if a person who had an evil materialistic nature who committed crimes such as murder or break up marriages etc., because they drank water instead of juice, then their actions were right, as they were righteous because they drank water rather than juice and were part of a religious group who perceived them self as righteous.... etc).
I would call the way that such people viewed the world is what psychologists may call a "religiosity" model of perception, which could also be considered a psychological disorder.
I would also say that where such behaviourism occurs, there can also likely have a comorbidity present from other complex psychological disorders including schizophrenia.
I used to be a friend of a strange man who said he was a Hare Krsna. The Hare Krsna's follow various holy texts from Indian History as their guidance in life. There are some texts that may suggest that water is pure and the best thing to drink, being pure, it is God in a food stuff so to speak.
So, ideally this would be good to drink.
However, if you were to not drink water, I do not think you would not suddenly turn into a mass murderer serial killer molester monster. I think it takes more than that to upset God.
I would say that it is a persons actions and words are what God refers to in order to judge the individual and his/her right for God's forgiveness.
Personally, i think that it would take more than simply not drinking water, in order to upset God.
If your sins are of course a lot worse than simply not drinking water, then, perhaps you need to explain this
to the police or psychologists, or priests, who may be able to help you rationalise what you have done and reconcile with God/people/society.
If you have committed other crimes, against people, then it is for God to judge you not me.
And the people who you have committed the crimes against, as it is there loss.
However, I can not speak for these people nor can I speak for God.
I do not think suicide is a particularly good solution, even if did horrible things.
God could still make use of you in this world, if you can find God, and offer sincerely to help him.
>>>> ALSO >>>>
For people who have created "their own" religion.
May I say that you should ask yourself as to what grounds do you have to say that your beliefs are what God wants you to believe? What is the grounds for your belief system. If you have just decided based on subjective thoughts, and you have no concrete evidence that there is any divine approval for your beliefs, and your belief system is making you want to commit suicide, then surely, you would be committing suicide based on no reason. In which case, perhaps breaking rules that were created by yourself and not God would be a better choice than committing suicide rather than break such made up rules.
Just an idea.
If you are alive, perhaps you can still do something worth while with your life and do what you can to help others who are in a worse state than yourself.
Including some who belonged to cults and some who subscribe to occult beliefs.
Some of the people who i knew also had values not dissimilar to yours, which often gave them a sense of righteousness or self worth over the rest of the world that they perceived as "sinners" over trivial matters
(such as drinking juice / soda = sinner, which means if a person of a good nature drank soda / juice, then it would make them evil, while if a person who had an evil materialistic nature who committed crimes such as murder or break up marriages etc., because they drank water instead of juice, then their actions were right, as they were righteous because they drank water rather than juice and were part of a religious group who perceived them self as righteous.... etc).
I would call the way that such people viewed the world is what psychologists may call a "religiosity" model of perception, which could also be considered a psychological disorder.
I would also say that where such behaviourism occurs, there can also likely have a comorbidity present from other complex psychological disorders including schizophrenia.
I used to be a friend of a strange man who said he was a Hare Krsna. The Hare Krsna's follow various holy texts from Indian History as their guidance in life. There are some texts that may suggest that water is pure and the best thing to drink, being pure, it is God in a food stuff so to speak.
So, ideally this would be good to drink.
However, if you were to not drink water, I do not think you would not suddenly turn into a mass murderer serial killer molester monster. I think it takes more than that to upset God.
I would say that it is a persons actions and words are what God refers to in order to judge the individual and his/her right for God's forgiveness.
Personally, i think that it would take more than simply not drinking water, in order to upset God.
If your sins are of course a lot worse than simply not drinking water, then, perhaps you need to explain this
to the police or psychologists, or priests, who may be able to help you rationalise what you have done and reconcile with God/people/society.
If you have committed other crimes, against people, then it is for God to judge you not me.
And the people who you have committed the crimes against, as it is there loss.
However, I can not speak for these people nor can I speak for God.
I do not think suicide is a particularly good solution, even if did horrible things.
God could still make use of you in this world, if you can find God, and offer sincerely to help him.
>>>> ALSO >>>>
For people who have created "their own" religion.
May I say that you should ask yourself as to what grounds do you have to say that your beliefs are what God wants you to believe? What is the grounds for your belief system. If you have just decided based on subjective thoughts, and you have no concrete evidence that there is any divine approval for your beliefs, and your belief system is making you want to commit suicide, then surely, you would be committing suicide based on no reason. In which case, perhaps breaking rules that were created by yourself and not God would be a better choice than committing suicide rather than break such made up rules.
Just an idea.
If you are alive, perhaps you can still do something worth while with your life and do what you can to help others who are in a worse state than yourself.
Dont take this the wrong way but what you wrote was an entire paragraph of nothing. Just conjectures, assumptions and far out of the field statements. I appreciate your intent to help me, unfortunately you were off the mark about everything you conjectured and extrapolated.
But I dont take that personally since I admit I am very esoteric and cryptic at times and can be hard to understand, so I dont take anything you said personally
_________________
"One often meets his destiny on the road he takes to avoid it."
Master Oogway
11 Apr 2021, 10:29 pm
Welcome to the club! When I was a kid I looked at the world in a cold and black and white way. People chose to do good and chose to do bad. I could be perfect because I could just choose to do the correct thing every time. Then the complexities of life hit more and more and I ended up disappointing myself. The worst thing wasn't anything I did, it was how much I beat myself up over it, which prevented me from improving.
I am not religious myself, but many religions recognize the flawed nature of humans, they recognize that people will sin or commit evil, and offer redemption in some way. Perfection only exists for the divine, humans will always be flawed.
funeralxempire
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11 Apr 2021, 10:49 pm
I've always been terrible. Welcome to the club. 
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Watching liberals try to solve societal problems without a systemic critique/class consciousness is like watching someone in the dark try to flip on the light switch, but they keep turning on the garbage disposal instead.
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11 Apr 2021, 10:54 pm
salad wrote:
And having attraction is a sin because it is spiritually impure and defective to see a female and find her attractive. A pure soul doesnt lose sight of its goal. Also attraction is a corruption of one's spirit to see all life as innocent and sacred. Attraction leads to seeing others not as human but as desirable in a way that is impure, degrading and indicative of a spiritual disease. No way is that not evil
But without attraction, how can one fall in love, get married, create a family, etc.?
Or are you trying to live a life of chastity?
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11 Apr 2021, 11:14 pm
SabbraCadabra wrote:
salad wrote:
And having attraction is a sin because it is spiritually impure and defective to see a female and find her attractive. A pure soul doesnt lose sight of its goal. Also attraction is a corruption of one's spirit to see all life as innocent and sacred. Attraction leads to seeing others not as human but as desirable in a way that is impure, degrading and indicative of a spiritual disease. No way is that not evil
But without attraction, how can one fall in love, get married, create a family, etc.?
Or are you trying to live a life of chastity?
Ive made attraction only forbidden to myself because it feels wrong and dirty for me, which is why I have forbidden myself from love and marriage
_________________
"One often meets his destiny on the road he takes to avoid it."
Master Oogway
11 Apr 2021, 11:40 pm
MidnightRose wrote:
Welcome to the club! When I was a kid I looked at the world in a cold and black and white way. People chose to do good and chose to do bad. I could be perfect because I could just choose to do the correct thing every time. Then the complexities of life hit more and more and I ended up disappointing myself. The worst thing wasn't anything I did, it was how much I beat myself up over it, which prevented me from improving.
I am not religious myself, but many religions recognize the flawed nature of humans, they recognize that people will sin or commit evil, and offer redemption in some way. Perfection only exists for the divine, humans will always be flawed.
I am not religious myself, but many religions recognize the flawed nature of humans, they recognize that people will sin or commit evil, and offer redemption in some way. Perfection only exists for the divine, humans will always be flawed.
I don't even know who I am anymore. I used to be certain that I knew the truth, that I would never ever have attraction or fall in love, never ever waste time on frivolous nonsense, never ever drink anything but water, but after falling so low and losing my morals and self I don't even know who I am anymore. I feel like im at war with myself, like there's something wrong with me, like I don't even know right from wrong anymore.
I wish I wasn't so lost and confused. I wish I could be the righteous and honorable person I used to be and knew I was
_________________
"One often meets his destiny on the road he takes to avoid it."
Master Oogway
12 Apr 2021, 4:49 am
salad wrote:
hurtloam wrote:
I can't help wondering if you've developed some sort of issue like OCD or an eating disorder and you're using religion to punish yourself the way someone would use purging after binge eating to punish themselves or staving themselves to punish themselves.
You need to seek help from a professional.
Not sure what country you are in but here is a list of crisis helplines by country.
List of crisis lines
You need to seek help from a professional.
Not sure what country you are in but here is a list of crisis helplines by country.
List of crisis lines
If you are curious I do have OCD, but that doesn't take away from the fact that the rules I live by are the only way I could live. eating junk, drinking anything but water, and making other evil sins are abominations in my eye that are major sins, and I feel terrible of succumbing to that this week after a failed suicide attempt
That perspective is very extreme and highly likely to be the result of a mental illness.
Please seek help
Edit - I'm not saying that to put you down. I am a religious person myself. I don't think religious people are crazy. I do think you are showing eating disorder symtoms.
12 Apr 2021, 5:12 am
It looks like orthorexia.
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/or ... th-effects
Quote:
Individuals with orthorexia can experience intense frustration when their food-related habits are disrupted.
What’s more, breaking self-imposed dietary rules is likely to cause feelings of guilt, self-loathing, or a compulsion toward “purification” through cleanses or fasts (2Trusted Source, 3Trusted Source).
In addition, a large amount of time is spent scrutinizing whether certain foods are “clean” or “pure” enough. This can include concerns about vegetables’ exposure to pesticides, hormone-supplemented dairy, and artificial flavors or preservatives (4Trusted Source).
Outside of meals, extra time might be spent researching, cataloging, weighing and measuring food, or planning future meals.
Recent research reports that this ongoing preoccupation with food and health is linked to a weaker working memory (4Trusted Source, 15).
What’s more, breaking self-imposed dietary rules is likely to cause feelings of guilt, self-loathing, or a compulsion toward “purification” through cleanses or fasts (2Trusted Source, 3Trusted Source).
In addition, a large amount of time is spent scrutinizing whether certain foods are “clean” or “pure” enough. This can include concerns about vegetables’ exposure to pesticides, hormone-supplemented dairy, and artificial flavors or preservatives (4Trusted Source).
Outside of meals, extra time might be spent researching, cataloging, weighing and measuring food, or planning future meals.
Recent research reports that this ongoing preoccupation with food and health is linked to a weaker working memory (4Trusted Source, 15).
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