'White Lives Matter' rallies flop as hardly anyone shows up

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NoClearMind53
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19 Apr 2021, 10:28 am

Fnord wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
... there's posters on here who believe anti-racism is the real racism.
Cognitive Dissonance may be co-morbid with other, more serious mental and perceptive disorders.

Racism is not a mental disorder.



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19 Apr 2021, 10:39 am

funeralxempire wrote:
NoClearMind53 wrote:
Anti-racism only seems like racism when you are racist. Sorry. Not sorry.


Careful, there's posters on here who believe anti-racism is the real racism.

And there are some of us that believe that the anti racism movement part that is an off shoot of critical race theory is not the racism but a form of it. Actually not enough of us to the degree that we don’t matter.


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19 Apr 2021, 10:57 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
NoClearMind53 wrote:
Anti-racism only seems like racism when you are racist. Sorry. Not sorry.


Careful, there's posters on here who believe anti-racism is the real racism.

And there are some of us that believe that the anti racism movement part that is an off shoot of critical race theory is not the racism but a form of it. Actually not enough of us to the degree that we don’t matter.


And none of you has ever effectively made a coherent case that opposing racism is actually racist, which I would argue is evidence that no such argument actually exists.


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19 Apr 2021, 11:03 am

NoClearMind53 wrote:
Fnord wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
... there's posters on here who believe anti-racism is the real racism.
Cognitive Dissonance may be co-morbid with other, more serious mental and perceptive disorders.
Racism is not a mental disorder.
Anyone who scapegoats an entire group of people, and who then seeks to eliminate them to resolve his or her own hatred meets the stated criteria for a delusional disorder, which is a major psychiatric illness.


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19 Apr 2021, 1:01 pm

This would be a great comedy skit.

A white male teacher walks into a room full of black & brown people.

Teacher: "White lives matter so ..."

Teacher: "CHECK YOUR UNCONCIOUS WHITE BIASES!"

Teacher: "WATCH FOR WHITE BLINDSPOTS!".

Teacher: "CHECK YOUR MINORITY PRIVLEDGE!".


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19 Apr 2021, 1:51 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
NoClearMind53 wrote:
Anti-racism only seems like racism when you are racist. Sorry. Not sorry.


Careful, there's posters on here who believe anti-racism is the real racism.

And there are some of us that believe that the anti racism movement part that is an off shoot of critical race theory is not the racism but a form of it. Actually not enough of us to the degree that we don’t matter.


And none of you has ever effectively made a coherent case that opposing racism is actually racist, which I would argue is evidence that no such argument actually exists.

Some of us understand that a bunch of what is described as antiracism is a hell of a lot more then literally opposing racism in a similar way that a lot of "White Lives Matter" is not literally about white lives mattering.


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19 Apr 2021, 2:44 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Some of us understand that a bunch of what is described as antiracism is a hell of a lot more then literally opposing racism in a similar way that a lot of "White Lives Matter" is not literally about white lives mattering.


Often it's about addressing racism on a deeper level than just directly confronting racist actions, that doesn't mean it isn't about addressing racism.

An example would be with the 1619 Project. Generally speaking there's a certain accepted framework when teaching American history. This framework intentionally ignores certain perspectives which makes it easier to downplay the contributions of black Americans and essentially ignores how their experiences and history is part of American history. Breaking that traditional framework is required to reexamine how deeply ingrained racism is within the society but doing so is required in order to actually confront racism.


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19 Apr 2021, 5:50 pm

TheRobotLives wrote:
This would be a great comedy skit.

A white male teacher walks into a room full of black & brown people.

Teacher: "White lives matter so ..."

Teacher: "CHECK YOUR UNCONCIOUS WHITE BIASES!"

Teacher: "WATCH FOR WHITE BLINDSPOTS!".

Teacher: "CHECK YOUR MINORITY PRIVLEDGE!".


Aspie that I am, I don't see the punchline.


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19 Apr 2021, 6:02 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Some of us understand that a bunch of what is described as antiracism is a hell of a lot more then literally opposing racism in a similar way that a lot of "White Lives Matter" is not literally about white lives mattering.


Often it's about addressing racism on a deeper level than just directly confronting racist actions, that doesn't mean it isn't about addressing racism.

An example would be with the 1619 Project. Generally speaking there's a certain accepted framework when teaching American history. This framework intentionally ignores certain perspectives which makes it easier to downplay the contributions of black Americans and essentially ignores how their experiences and history is part of American history. Breaking that traditional framework is required to reexamine how deeply ingrained racism is within the society but doing so is required in order to actually confront racism.


The 1619 project is an important part of it but some of it goes beyond that to meritocracy is racism, colorblindness is racism, to white fragility, to viewing every action or policy through the lens of systematic racism. If you ascribe negative characteristics such as racism or fragility to the race of people that is racism. An argument can be made that this particular form of racism is not as bad as white supremacy due to power dynamics or that this particular form of racism is necessary to undo the harm of past white racism in order to create equity but that does not make it not racist.


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19 Apr 2021, 6:08 pm

Just because you're white----doesn't mean you're racist.

Just because you're non-white-----doesn't mean you're racist.

There's racism all over----of many varieties.

But it's dead wrong to ascribe an inevitable "racist" characteristic to one race. That's racist in and of itself. And this will, inevitably, cause harm.



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19 Apr 2021, 6:15 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Some of us understand that a bunch of what is described as antiracism is a hell of a lot more then literally opposing racism in a similar way that a lot of "White Lives Matter" is not literally about white lives mattering.


Often it's about addressing racism on a deeper level than just directly confronting racist actions, that doesn't mean it isn't about addressing racism.

An example would be with the 1619 Project. Generally speaking there's a certain accepted framework when teaching American history. This framework intentionally ignores certain perspectives which makes it easier to downplay the contributions of black Americans and essentially ignores how their experiences and history is part of American history. Breaking that traditional framework is required to reexamine how deeply ingrained racism is within the society but doing so is required in order to actually confront racism.


The 1619 project is an important part of it but some of it goes beyond that to meritocracy is racism, colorblindness is racism, to white fragility, to viewing every action or policy through the lens of systematic racism. If you ascribe negative characteristics such as racism or fragility to the race of people that is racism. An argument can be made that this particular form of racism is not as bad as white supremacy due to power dynamics or that this particular form of racism is necessary to undo the harm of past white racism in order to create equity but that does not make it not racist.


I fail to see how noticing white fragility, aka pointing out that some people are overly sensitive to the concept of whiteness being criticized or to having the concept of white privilege openly discussed is racist. What else would that tendency be called? No one's ascribing this as an inherent trait white people share, merely a trait that is common within that group. Being more open to criticism like you've demonstrated (or like I've had to learn) makes one less fragile.

Colourblindness by and large fails to address racism and serves as a convenient excuse for not giving a s**t among a lot of the generational cohort who grew up embracing it. It's not universal but a lot of people immediately pivot to defending themselves as not personally racist with some sort of 'i've got x ys where x is an ethnic group and y is a relationship. I encounter these sorts of arguments a lot on message boards related to some of the hobbies I'm into because they're dominated by conservative leaning boomer and silent generation types.

But yes, it's problematic and the problem it contributes to is racism so as much as the intention was almost certainly positive, it really misses the point for actually improving things.


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19 Apr 2021, 6:17 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Just because you're white----doesn't mean you're racist.

Just because you're non-white-----doesn't mean you're racist.

There's racism all over----of many varieties.

But it's dead wrong to ascribe an inevitable "racist" characteristic to one race. That's racist in and of itself. And this will, inevitably, cause harm.


Who's done that?

Saying that power dynamics are important for understanding racism doesn't ascribe any trait to any group even if it's generally agreeable that power is largely held in the hands of one group.

Pointing out that power is unfairly distributed also doesn't ascribe any trait to any group, it merely points out a reality that no one is blind enough to deny. Claiming that things ended up the way due to some inherent trait of that group would be saying something racist, but it's not anti-racists claiming that.


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19 Apr 2021, 7:08 pm

It's wrong to ascribe a group characteristic to a single person.

Yes, white people have, obviously, dominated everything in the United States to the present day. How can anyone dispute that?

But why blame the white person who lives in a shack in the Appalachians?

I only don't like it that I am assumed to be a racist merely by virtue of being white.

I don't mind it when someone points out that there's discrimination based on race all over---because there obviously is---and it must be corrected.

I don't even mind it when people speak of the "Patriarchy" in feminist circles---only don't put me in that category. I am not a part of this "Patriarchy."

I grew up absolutely steeped in Martin Luther King. I loved the man from the time I was seven years old. I've been studying the history of civil rights since that time.



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19 Apr 2021, 7:13 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
But why blame the white person who lives in a shack in the Appalachians?

I only don't like it that I am assumed to be a racist merely by virtue of being white.


Who's blaming him? It's not a matter of fault, it's a matter of facing fewer hurdles. That man would be spared certain challenges that many others face due solely to their appearance. Pointing that out isn't blaming him and that's why acting like calling out privilege is somehow blaming anyone is a dishonest canard to trot out.

There isn't an honest way you can reframe white privilege to actually be about blaming white people for anything. It's just a reflection of the current reality that people who aren't white face additional hurdles compared to those who are.


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19 Apr 2021, 7:27 pm

The person from the Appalachians faces hurdles, too....probably some of them similar to what a black person might face. Lack of education. Lack of a social network. And even how he looks and dresses.

Just like they say you can take a person out of the ghetto, but you can't take the ghetto out of the person Supposedly, you can take a person out of the trailer, but you can't take the "trailer aspects" out of the person. Same sort of thing.

I hope, one day, we can dispense with "affirmative action" and things like that. I really do. I really, really want an "even playing field." My life's desire.

I'm married to a black woman. I've dated many black women. My best friend, these days, is a Trinidadian East Indian guy. I've heard many stories of discrimination anecdotally. And I've read about them, too, in textbooks and in literature.

I'm pretty steeped in my civil rights, actually....you would be surprised if you met me.

I believe in some of the "woke" things----I don't believe in some others. That doesn't make me worthy of "re-education."



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19 Apr 2021, 7:38 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
The person from the Appalachians faces hurdles, too....probably some of them similar to what a black person might face. Lack of education. Lack of a social network. And even how he looks and dresses.

Just like they say you can take a person out of the ghetto, but you can't take the ghetto out of the person Supposedly, you can take a person out of the trailer, but you can't take the "trailer aspects" out of the person. Same sort of thing.

I hope, one day, we can dispense with "affirmative action" and things like that. I really do. I really, really want an "even playing field." My life's desire.

I'm married to a black woman. I've dated many black women. My best friend, these days, is a Trinidadian East Indian guy. I've heard many stories of discrimination anecdotally. And I've read about them, too, in textbooks and in literature.

I'm pretty steeped in my civil rights, actually....you would be surprised if you met me.

I believe in some of the "woke" things----I don't believe in some others. That doesn't make me worthy of "re-education."


Has anyone ever suggested that benefiting from privilege means one faces no hurdles?

Yes, that man likely will also face class related struggles, and I don't think I've ever tried to suggest otherwise. Your entire argument so far has relied on refuting things that weren't actually said Kraftie.


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