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FranzOren
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14 Apr 2021, 10:50 am

There is a theory that Autism Spectrum Disorder is Narcissistic Developmental Disorder.


Source:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog ... m-disorder


Autism Spectrum Disorder is fancy narcissism according to this website's theory.


Autism Spectrum Disorder is caused by genetics, mutations or environmental factors during stage of development.


People with Autism Spectrum Disorder (including me) tend be grandiose and pompous with their repetitive and restricted interests. That is why I thought in theory it is Narcissistic Developmental Disorder according to this source.

NPD includes Delusion of power and sadism. And Autism includes Delusions of structure and routine.


Most people with ASD have trouble with lying and manipulating others.

I am good at lying and manipulating others, even though I have history of developmental delay.


I have Pervasive Developmental Disorder – Not Otherwise Specified.

Narcissistic Developmental Disorder is caused by genetics, mutations or environmental factors during stage of development.



kraftiekortie
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14 Apr 2021, 10:51 am

If you observe a severely autistic person, I will GUARANTEE you that you won't see ANY narcissism in that person.



FranzOren
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14 Apr 2021, 11:19 am

I agree!

I just don't understand what this website meant.



kraftiekortie
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14 Apr 2021, 12:20 pm

Sometimes, people just write things for the sake of writing things. They don't care if it's true or not.



FranzOren
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14 Apr 2021, 12:54 pm

Thank you! I understood.

That means that my theory is a myth and should be revised.



FranzOren
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14 Apr 2021, 1:06 pm

There sometimes is psychotic component to having Autism Spectrum Disorder.

Examples of these psychotic symptoms that started during developmental stage period and with late age of onset, atypical symptomatology, or subthreshold symptomatology:

* Delusional view of how to communicate with others
* Delusional interests and repetitive patterns of behaviors
* Distorted thinking
* Preoccupation with fantasies that interfere and that are not normal to have at a certain age depending on social, cultural and religious norms.
* Delusional perception of the world
* Abnormal visual and auditory sensory perpetration of the world
* MIRRORED-SELF MISIDENTIFICATION - The delusion that the individual in the mirror that you are a child, even though you are an older teen or an adult
* Delusion that your routine is more important than anything else



Earthbound_Alien
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15 Apr 2021, 12:13 am

Please, for the love of god, stop using psychology today as a reference, they write the biggest load of rubbish known to man!



Mona Pereth
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15 Apr 2021, 1:53 am

The article was written back in 2014.

Narcissistic people don't, as a general rule, have the kinds of social difficulties that autistic people do.

Narcissistic people tend to "lack empathy" in the sense of just not caring about the feelings of those people whom they don't have to impress in order to raise their own social status.

Of course it's possible for someone to be both autistic and narcissistic, but one is not a form of the other.


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auntblabby
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15 Apr 2021, 2:28 am

by my history, i am more inclined to believe that schizoid disorder or schizotypal disorder are more closely related to autism, than anything having to do with narcissism.



Earthbound_Alien
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15 Apr 2021, 2:36 am

FranzOren wrote:
There is a theory that Autism Spectrum Disorder is Narcissistic Developmental Disorder.


Source:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog ... m-disorder


Autism Spectrum Disorder is fancy narcissism according to this website's theory.


Absolute rubbish...my dad was actually autistic, not aspergers, he was autistic. He was not narcissistic.

He had meltdowns if his routines were disturbed (ie afternoon nap, had to watch the 10 o clock news), he socialised but did not have friends, he could not show real empathy, he could not change babies nappies or cook properly for himself, he was socially inappropriate without realising he was being so (not rude, he just said and weird stuff that he did not realise was not ok to say and do i.e he would walk through town picking up chewing gum off the floor) and people would usually exclaim 'Adrian, you can't say that, Adrian you can't do that!).

He would often carry on doing it not to be difficult but because he was just oblivious. My dad had a reasonably low IQ, failing all his exams at school, he did not have the intelligence to be narcissistic or manipulative or deliberately difficult.

I am similar to my dad, I have a lot of his traits, but I have my mums IQ which was much higher. I have more social awareness than my father and unlike him I dislike conflit and hate being told off and shouted at if i do something wrong socially, so if i can i try to stop doing it.

You have to understand though that a lot of my social understanding is intellectual/theoretical, i dont actually experience it emotionally, even empathy. Much of the time i have merely learned what I should say and am repeating a script. I don't feel it. I have compassion though but its very rudimentary.

I see someone crying I feel concerned and upset because they are sad
I see someone acting angrily and I become afraid
Someone is obviously nasty for no reason I feel hurt but not ego wise, its just a feeling in my tummy or chest that feels ouchie.
etc

I don't understand or experience the same emotions as an NT and many of my emotions are fleeting ie embarrassment...it lasts a few moments and is gone and my brain has long forgotten until i do something embarrassing again and again and again and again...lol

I am a social ditz like my dad was but with my mums IQ which only performs intellectually/academically unfortunately, it is not generalised and only works well in restricted areas. I can't force it...I can learn academically when I am interested but cannot learn socially well at all.

Fortunately for me I used to be into studying the humanities (sociology, psychology and biology) as it is the only way I can understand other humans. They have long mystified me.

I have also grown more socially aware in my 30s, my social iq is higher now than it was as a child and teenager and its still abysmall all the same! And I am still not neurotypical.

Perhaps there is a difference between autism and Aspergers after all.

Quote:

People with Autism Spectrum Disorder (including me) tend be grandiose and pompous with their repetitive and restricted interests. That is why I thought in theory it is Narcissistic Developmental Disorder according to this source.


Does not apply to me, I am not pompous about my repetitive and restricted interests.

Firstly my interests are not restricted, I am into all sorts but I can have obsessive fads where they pervade every aspect of my world. I wake up thinking about it, i go to sleep thinking about it, I like to spend time doing it but i also use it to calm my nervous system when I am upset. Connecting with humans has no effect on me, emotional support does zero for me...I get more from diving into my favourite hobby of the day.

I am now getting a thing for gem art.

My longest running one though is food...it used to be a running joke in my family that the first thing id ask for on my death bed is dinner.

I do not push my interests on other people though, I may talk about them if something excites me or I am ruminating about something but usually its just whats on my mind most of the day!

Others do not have to do the same, they are free to do as they wish, but I do like it when everyone enjoys their dinner.

I was into paleo diet (and still am a bit as i have autoimmune issues) and did used to advise people to try it but that is because i thought it would help them. They don't have to take my advice, I don't mind as long as they don't dominate me food wise.

Quote:

NPD includes Delusion of power and sadism. And Autism includes Delusions of structure and routine.


I don't have routines as much as i have samenesses or trust me it will take my brain ages to make a decision on how to proceed. Easier to do some things the same way over and over again to avoid 3 hours of deliberation and the inevitable 'oh fook it I won't bother then cause I can't make up my mind'.

Either that or i get confused and go round in circles never getting anywhere, like tidying up...i simply seem to move the piles of clutter from one room to another but never seem to get it put away anywhere.

I am only good at organising my collections, which i attach to like they are little people. I even talk to them like they are little people and I don't like hurting their feelings even though I know they don't have any because they are inanimate objects.

In fact i attach more to my collections or favouriute items (or babies as i call them) then I do to humans and the things I attach to are not necessarily valuable or socially tendy, in fact they are more likely to get me mocked!

Ie I had an old fleece coat that I wore for years, so much so people asked me if i ever wore anything different. I wore that fleece until it fell apart.

I got upset when my mum threw my dummy bottle away when I was 7 or 8. She said she lost it but I think she discarded it instead. I was very upset and am still upset to this day, I liked my dummy bottle.

I had an old pacman game as a child, my mum made me lend it out and i never got it back again...i was very upset and still am to this day.

I had an old exercise leotard, the zip broke, it was faded and worn but was my favourite, i gave it to someone to mend and they lost it, i am still upset to this day.

I used to have cuddly toys, stuffed bunny rabbits, i used to talk to them sometimes like they were people even in my twenties.

More recently I had a bike called Penny, I promised her id take her on lots of lovely adventures, I had to sell her a while ago, I still grieve for her now...she was like a little human to me..she was penny and when i get a new bike it will take a while to replace her, it won't be quite the same.

Quote:
Most people with ASD have trouble with lying and manipulating others.

I am good at lying and manipulating others, even though I have history of developmental delay.


I can try but I am terrible at it.

1 I forget my own lies if i tell them
2 I prefer things to be straight up but have learned in this world you can't always do that because you can't trust people with certain information, or they won't understand..ie i have to avoid interacting with support staff because they don't understand my need for my hobbies and that emotional support does nothing for me. It is out of self protection, not ego.
3 I misunderstand how people will respond to the things I say and do...i think I am being funny or cute and they see it as arrogant or stupid or inconsiderate or inappropriate, so i find myself constantly shocked by peoples reactions to me.
4 I lack the social IQ to do it and always have...At school I was the kid that got picked on by the kids that got picked on even though I thought i was being friendly and fitting in. I once asked my mum why they were so nasty to me as I did not (and still do not) understand the reasons why.
5 I don't have empathy, only compassion.

I don't like being manipulative, I feel uncomfortable with it, so even if i try manipulation I don't keep it going for long...it just feels nasty.

----


I really do think you need to stop reading psychology today.



Earthbound_Alien
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15 Apr 2021, 3:07 am

Mona Pereth wrote:
The article was written back in 2014.

Narcissistic people don't, as a general rule, have the kinds of social difficulties that autistic people do.

Narcissistic people tend to "lack empathy" in the sense of just not caring about the feelings of those people whom they don't have to impress in order to raise their own social status.

Of course it's possible for someone to be both autistic and narcissistic, but one is not a form of the other.


Why do people need to impress anyone?

Can they not just get along because you enjoy each others company? Personally I just want to be around people whom let me be myself without my having to force my personality around them (read compatibility and basic acceptance). I am not interested in social status but I do need company sometimes if I can cope with the people around me.

What are the different social difficulties between a narcissist and an autistic please?

Empathy and compassion are not the same. Empathy is the ability to understand and share someones feelings and compassion is having concern for anothers suffering/feelings.

I have no empathy but i have a lot of compassion so care about the feelings of others, I just can't always understand them or cope with them.

I can clearly see someone is sad (when it is very obvious) but do not really know how to respond, i feel awkward and uncomfortable even though I wish I could comfort them and make their sadness go away. I am like a rabbit trapped in the headlights of a speeding truck, i want to help but don't know what to do or how to make them feel better so I tend to go away and avoid it because I don't know how to cope with it.



FranzOren
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15 Apr 2021, 7:14 am

Thank you!

The article is much of BS then. But is there some grandiosity that people with ASD have?

Having restricted interests can be a sign of too much ego depending on the situation.



auntblabby
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15 Apr 2021, 7:57 am

it can also be a sign that one is hanging on by the skin of their teeth trying to find a safe harbor.



Earthbound_Alien
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15 Apr 2021, 8:03 am

FranzOren wrote:
Thank you!

The article is much of BS then. But is there some grandiosity that people with ASD have?

Having restricted interests can be a sign of too much ego depending on the situation.


I have no idea how having interests relates to ego, can you explain further please?

As to grandiosity, not that I am aware of unless they are miscommunicating themselves.



FranzOren
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15 Apr 2021, 11:46 am

Thank you! I understood.



FranzOren
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15 Apr 2021, 11:48 am

Showing too much ego in terms of autistic traits is when you are the center of attention with your restricted interests.