Cops shoot 16 year old black girl in Ohio

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Soliloquist
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04 May 2021, 4:06 am



MidnightRose
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04 May 2021, 10:21 pm

As a leftist, I object to being put in with the people choosing this shooting as a hill to die on in the police violence debate. In this specific instance, the use of lethal force seemed justified. An epidemic of unjustified police violence doesn't mean this instance was bad.



browneyedgirlslowingdown
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05 May 2021, 2:47 pm

This has been an interesting thread. It made me think about how often prison fights are broken up without any gun usage or murder of anyone. There were a lot of arguments on here about what police officers are trained to do, and this is, in fact, why I would never call them to my home for any reason. They have no moral ground or training to protect life on any level, and killing is the reaction trained into to any perceived threat. Diversity training has nothing to do with it, they kill no matter the label, child, disabled, etc. Why would you welcome that? Perception is always skewed. In prison, the guards have to rely on everything else, tasers, tear gas, rubber bullets, whatever. And this is working with stone-cold criminals, not teenagers fighting over chores. Regardless of minority status or any oppressive identity, it doesn't make sense that a random person can show up with no college education, no anything but a 6-month training usually and shoot to kill you based on perceived threat. Absolute idiocy. I have no idea why anyone on this earth would protect that. I would prefer the fire department or paramedics, at least they are trained to save lives.


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MidnightRose
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05 May 2021, 7:59 pm

browneyedgirlslowingdown wrote:
perceived threat


Literally pressing an unarmed person against a car and raising a knife.



browneyedgirlslowingdown
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05 May 2021, 8:36 pm

MidnightRose wrote:
browneyedgirlslowingdown wrote:
perceived threat


Literally pressing an unarmed person against a car and raising a knife.


Please don't sign up to serve anywhere.


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ironpony
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06 May 2021, 12:05 am

browneyedgirlslowingdown wrote:
This has been an interesting thread. It made me think about how often prison fights are broken up without any gun usage or murder of anyone. There were a lot of arguments on here about what police officers are trained to do, and this is, in fact, why I would never call them to my home for any reason. They have no moral ground or training to protect life on any level, and killing is the reaction trained into to any perceived threat. Diversity training has nothing to do with it, they kill no matter the label, child, disabled, etc. Why would you welcome that? Perception is always skewed. In prison, the guards have to rely on everything else, tasers, tear gas, rubber bullets, whatever. And this is working with stone-cold criminals, not teenagers fighting over chores. Regardless of minority status or any oppressive identity, it doesn't make sense that a random person can show up with no college education, no anything but a 6-month training usually and shoot to kill you based on perceived threat. Absolute idiocy. I have no idea why anyone on this earth would protect that. I would prefer the fire department or paramedics, at least they are trained to save lives.


Well, as far as people not wanting to call the cops to their home, what do you do if something urgent happened, such as intruders break in. Just take them on yourselves, without any police help?



browneyedgirlslowingdown
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06 May 2021, 8:33 am

ironpony wrote:
browneyedgirlslowingdown wrote:
This has been an interesting thread. It made me think about how often prison fights are broken up without any gun usage or murder of anyone. There were a lot of arguments on here about what police officers are trained to do, and this is, in fact, why I would never call them to my home for any reason. They have no moral ground or training to protect life on any level, and killing is the reaction trained into to any perceived threat. Diversity training has nothing to do with it, they kill no matter the label, child, disabled, etc. Why would you welcome that? Perception is always skewed. In prison, the guards have to rely on everything else, tasers, tear gas, rubber bullets, whatever. And this is working with stone-cold criminals, not teenagers fighting over chores. Regardless of minority status or any oppressive identity, it doesn't make sense that a random person can show up with no college education, no anything but a 6-month training usually and shoot to kill you based on perceived threat. Absolute idiocy. I have no idea why anyone on this earth would protect that. I would prefer the fire department or paramedics, at least they are trained to save lives.


Well, as far as people not wanting to call the cops to their home, what do you do if something urgent happened, such as intruders break in. Just take them on yourselves, without any police help?


If they show up it's a possibility if I am perceived as a threat I will be killed. My appearance alone as a brown girl could result in that reaction and has repeatedly though I have not been actually killed. So, intruders are highly unlikely, and if someone broke in to steal things or hurt me, the police would show up after the fact anyways. In many places, they don't even investigate theft, rape, and things of this nature. So, prevention is the better option versus waiting for cops to save ya in my view.


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06 May 2021, 9:24 am

When you say prevention is the better option, how would most people prevent harm without calling the cops though? Wouldn't the intruders be more dangerous than the police in a lot of cases?



browneyedgirlslowingdown
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06 May 2021, 1:24 pm

ironpony wrote:
When you say prevention is the better option, how would most people prevent harm without calling the cops though? Wouldn't the intruders be more dangerous than the police in a lot of cases?


Prevention: Don't leave valuables in car in visible sight, lock doors and windows at night, have a dog that barks at everything that moves, alarm system, so and so forth. Calling cops happens after something happens or when a crime is in progress unless they decide you look suspicious and initiate contact themselves is what usually happens, no one calls the cops before something happens unless they are perceiving someone as a threat that has not committed any crime but looks "suspicious".

edit: also a lot of crimes are domestic...ie people you live with, spend time with, associate with, choose them wisely, also a good prevention tactic. Avoiding overconsumption of drugs and alcohol also helps.


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06 May 2021, 8:27 pm

Oh okay good points. In this particular crime, the victim that was saved from the attempted stabbing, are there any interviews that the victim did to hear her perspective on it, or any online commentary on it from her?



browneyedgirlslowingdown
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07 May 2021, 9:41 am

ironpony wrote:
Oh okay good points. In this particular crime, the victim that was saved from the attempted stabbing, are there any interviews that the victim did to hear her perspective on it, or any online commentary on it from her?


I have no idea, I feel like that both could have been saved, but I cops aren't really trained in de-escalation. Have you been to classrooms or environments with kids like these that are violent? I have, anything is a weapon, a desk, pen, fist, scissors, whatever, killing is not an option at any time. In those spaces, your options are only de-escalation and non-lethal means. For people that have those kinds of work experiences this guy looks like a murderer, not a savior.


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07 May 2021, 9:47 am

Oh okay. In the video the cop told the woman with the knife to get down four times, and she didn't listen and tried to stab the woman anyway, so was perhaps de-escalation not possible, and some armed attackers are just de-escalable? I mean if you are not going listen to 'get down', when the person who is saying it is a cop with a gun, then who are you going to listen too? Or maybe it was still de-escalatable?



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07 May 2021, 10:05 am

as a non-white, i will cast my lot with dealing with trouble myself, i don't like the risk of having a barely sentient and implicitly biased automaton brute incorrectly figure things out in real time. why can't americans have good things like the utterly professional and civilized police force of the netherlands?



browneyedgirlslowingdown
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07 May 2021, 10:26 am

ironpony wrote:
Oh okay. In the video the cop told the woman with the knife to get down four times, and she didn't listen and tried to stab the woman anyway, so was perhaps de-escalation not possible, and some armed attackers are just de-escalable? I mean if you are not going listen to 'get down', when the person who is saying it is a cop with a gun, then who are you going to listen too? Or maybe it was still de-escalatable?


I can't watch videos of people that look like me being killed, so I won't watch it. In my de-escalation training yelling at someone to stop is not effective as if they are already escalated. Police should have some sort of training in that, I am not sure, as I am not given a gun to take people out when my techniques fail. I am forced to keep trying, I will even put myself in the way, I will restrain if necessary but physical contact is the absolute last resort.


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07 May 2021, 8:03 pm

Oh okay, so you didn't see the video at all you mean?



browneyedgirlslowingdown
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07 May 2021, 10:44 pm

ironpony wrote:
Oh okay, so you didn't see the video at all you mean?


I have not seen the whole video.


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