Societies expectations of how women should act
Society expects women to be warm, chatty, generous, caring, agreeable, and supportive...
But I can't be that. I despise being expected to put in so much effort, for no reason other than I'm a woman. Even on good days I can't mask well enough to fit the standard.
Any hint of anger or discomfort I display gets treated 1000x worse than it actually is, and having to keep it all in results in 80% of my depression. Seeing men being allowed to display much larger anger or discomfort makes me bitter.
I have tried to limit socializing as much as I can but can't avoid family I live with.
How do you deal with people's expectations and reactions without going crazy?
(Men please do not comment I am only looking for women's experiences, thank you)
I don't know your cultural background but my own experience is: I've learned to be polite but I had to also learn to be impolite, even to my own relatives, when they cross my boundaries.
It was a process, supported a lot by my therapist, but the outcome was a win: after initial fights and manipulation attempts, my relatives learned to live with the fact that I don't fit their expectations. It turned out healthy to everyone involved.
_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.
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OutsideView
Veteran
Joined: 4 Oct 2017
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,022
Location: England ^not male but apparently you can't change it
I didn't even realise I should act a different way as a kid. I've had some women be really angry with me because I thought they should try to be kind and nice (having concern for other people). I just think the world would be a better place if that's what everyone aimed for but obviously we should all be allowed to express our more negative feelings when we need to. As for being warm and chatty (being sociable with other people), that's just down to the individual person. I suspect there would be less mental health issues if it was more accepted that women can be assertive and men can be caring.
_________________
Silence lies steadily against the wood and stone of Hill House. And we who walk here, walk alone.
Yup yup! I mean, everyone should be caring and such to some degree, it's no good to be completely selfish, but demanding someone to be more caring because she's a woman is just plain wrong, but that's how it still is in most societies. And then people say feminism is no longer needed.
That said, while women are expected to be more positive and to not show feelings like anger and hate, it's more socially acceptable for us to cry than it is for men. Both genders have their problems.
How do I deal with it? Well, depends on the situation. When it comes to friends, I refuse to act in any certain way that would be expected of me due to my gender. It has clearly cost me some chances when it comes to forming friendships, perhaps even relationships, but I'm the type to rather be alone than in bad company.
When it comes to people at work, I try to live up to the workplace's expectations. These days it's pretty easy, but when it wasn't I just forced myself to deal with, reminding myself that I don't have to deal with it outside of working hours. Of course, some people have the option of just quitting their jobs if they're expected to act as someone they're not, be it because of gender roles or something else, but many, including me, don't have such a luxury; gotta pay the bills somehow and it was hard enough to get this current job.
With family, it's more complicated... of course, I can't say for certain when I'm expected to be a certain way because I'm a woman and when the same things would be expected of me even if I was a man, but I'm sure there are some things. Anyway, my number one tactic to dealing with it is simply to avoid topics of conversation that I know could end badly with my family, but the thing is, I'm bad at avoiding them. They just tend to come up, but I've gotten a little better over time. Another option that I'm slightly better at is simply to try to keep the emotions from showing 'cause that'll lead to less trouble, but since your problem is precisely not being allowed to show emotions, I suppose that won't help you.
By the way, do you have any brothers? I assumed that you might have and your brother(s) being allowed to do things you're not because you're a woman might be your biggest problem. I mean, I don't have any brothers, but with how old fashioned families my parents come from, I'm sure that if I did, they would be treated better than us girls since that's how it traditionally went in many places, here included.
If we're talking clothes, then it usually goes like this:
"Why are you wearing that? It's for guys"
"I own it, I'm wearing it, therefore this exact shirt is for me right now".
Personally sometimes I dress femme, other times I dress a bit more androgynously.
---
With regards to make up, which I don't wear except for nail polish occasionally, I do get some backlash for that but if possible I usually cut people out of my life who try to force me to wear it. It's scratchy on my face. Personally I find it distracting and have to mentally stop myself from scratching / rubbing my face with make up on. So I stopped wearing it. If anyone has an issue with that, well that's their problem as far as I'm concerned.
---
If we're talking capability, then I read back what I've written in academic settings / job applications and see if I'm using a passive voice. Which typically entails checking if I've used "I believe" or "I'm not an expert but" and general talking down / underselling of achievements, then removing such things. I know I've certainly had to unlearn this forced passivity.
As a woman trying to break into a male-dominated industry, I do get questioned sometimes in regards to whether I can really know what I'm doing. Or on my motives (such as only having certain interests in the hopes of finding a man, which is amusing because I'm a lesbian). The way I usually deal with this is answering their questions (you do know what this beginner information is, right?) with "Yes" and then I proceed to tell them even more information about the thing they unnecessarily explained to me, then ask them if they knew that. I find that often works.
For gaining attention in meetings, I keep my voice level, and I lean in slightly. If someone starts talking over me, I continue talking to make a point that I wasn't done.
---
In regards to talking about female friendships, then I have noticed a change in expectations of how I should act since coming out. Certain behaviours, such as passing compliments or emotional language can potentially come across as flirting if I'm not careful. Particular gender expectations have completely flipped now that I'm openly out. Sometimes people are surprised to find out I have interests that are often perceived as feminine (such as musicals). Or they'll ask why I'm wearing a dress. My usual response is "because I want to".
_________________
24. Possibly B.A.P.
I don't. I don't interact with many people, but if I met someone who didn't like who I am, I wouldn't continue to interact with that person.
There's really not much to it but to just be yourself. I don't care what people think anymore, I don't have the energy for a bunch of fake BS anymore, I'm just doing my own thing most of the time. I've been way beyond gender non-conforming for years and years now; it's something I mostly no longer even think about. I live in a nice liberal area, plus no one really knows me here, so no one gives me any grief.
I guess with time it became easier to not care what people think. With experience, I came to see how stupid people are, so their opinions don't matter. I think my mom had some issues with my non-feminine behavior, but I was an adult and didn't care what she thought, so I just ignored her and eventually stopped talking to her and disappeared out of her life.
StickBugette
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: 11 Mar 2021
Age: 47
Gender: Female
Posts: 28
Location: Washington, DC, USA
People who pressure you to be someone you're not -- they're not really your friend. I learned this the hard way. My ex used to say "you look so great in heels" (high-heeled shoes) and that seems like a compliment, except that I hate heels and my feet hurt when wearing them. My ex used to say, "Just keep wearing them - the pain will go away once you get used to them." Uh, that's false. When my son was diagnosed with hyptonia and had to wear orthotics, I realized that my feet are the same and I also need orthotics. I got orthotics and no more foot pain! Orthotic-friendly shoes are the opposite of heels, but it's what my feet need. Plus I like them. They're my style.
The only expectations I feel I have from society as a woman is dyeing my hair, wearing make-up and shaving body hair. I feel like the only woman in the world who has never dyed her hair (why aren't women satisfied with the hair colour that they've got???), and I'd feel really, really weird if I went out with unshaved legs or armpits in summer clothes.
Guys seem to have the choice. If a guy wants long hair like a woman, that's fine. If a guy shaves his legs, that's fine, and if a guy doesn't shave his legs, that's also fine. If a guy wants to go around looking like a bum (unkempt facial hair), that's fine too. If a woman doesn't wash her hair or shave her body hair, she will be severely judged.
_________________
Female
My parents are nice people and never taught me I had to act a specific way. I've generally restricted my social interactions so that they don't get too overwhelming and I'm not on many online sites so I can't say that I've experienced this myself. But I have heard a lot about it.
_________________
Opinion polls have officially begun!
Posting will be on and off due to school studies for a while. I am still around though and will occasionally pop in!
violetdr3amer
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: 4 May 2021
Age: 924
Gender: Female
Posts: 64
Location: UK
I can relate so hard! Women are indeed expected to be saccharine, devoid of opinions and universally maternal to everyone we meet. I have - I s**t you not - been accused of being a sociopath before (! !)
These days I live a pretty hermetic life - I rarely leave the house, and I have a few good friends whom I see, that's it. I've pretty much given up on the idea of ever having a serious relationship because I just cannot be an ego prop to a man.
It is crazy making. I tried to walk the fine line of allowable behavior and realized it wasn't serving me (or the world) well. The "goldilocks" syndrome (look it up) is hard enough for NT women, much more so for an ASD one. I had my fill of the death by a thousand paper cuts at work and quit (toxic workplace, but some might say "high normal"). I'm beginning to draw the line in personal relationships. I'm looking for an inclusive environment that accepts a respectful, enthusiastic (and often emotionally dysregulated) person as I am (happy, sad, mad), not "should" be. It's nice being near 50 and shedding more of the conformity that I tried to manage (poorly). Wishing you find your crowd in the important areas in your life and can disregard the naysayers.
Luckily for me, I've spent most of my adult life in either (1) oddball subcultures where gendered behavior norms were explicitly rejected and/or (2) highly cosmopolitan / multi-cultural environments where there were no standardized behavioral norms beyond basic politeness and mutual respect.
I highly recommend that autistic people seek out such environments if possible.
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While it may be difficult, the way I've learned to deal with it is to try to put your ego aside as much as possible, realize that people are just as sick as you are, and the only way to live in this world is to be compassionate because the reality is that whatever you experience is actually just a manifestation of yourself because we are all one consciousness.
Practically speaking, you can always be polite, thank them for their opinion, confirm that their view is not necessarily the same as yours, wish them the best and be on your way to do other things. It's a version of the "get more bees with honey" way of living.
Is it masking or is it becoming more aware of other people's feelings during personal encounters? It may be one, the other, or a bit of both. All I know is that holding love in the forefront of your mind and being compassionate when dealing with others is the least burdensome way to be.
_________________
Love, Light, and Blessings,
Kiki
Follow me on Instagram for spiritual digital art stuff: https://www.instagram.com/kikicosmicguide/
Check out my Coloring Book: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0989VKSBY
But I can't be that. I despise being expected to put in so much effort, for no reason other than I'm a woman. Even on good days I can't mask well enough to fit the standard.
Any hint of anger or discomfort I display gets treated 1000x worse than it actually is, and having to keep it all in results in 80% of my depression. Seeing men being allowed to display much larger anger or discomfort makes me bitter.
I have tried to limit socializing as much as I can but can't avoid family I live with.
How do you deal with people's expectations and reactions without going crazy?
(Men please do not comment I am only looking for women's experiences, thank you)
Eh, that’s why there’s so many wars. Men aren’t allowed to cry but there allowed to punch each other in the face.
But women are strong! They don’t need to succumb to primary basic childish emotions. Every time you’re about to lose your temper repeat to yourself “ don’t behave like a man”. “Be stronger”.”try harder” “fight the urge,overcome,rise above”.”stop acting like a man”.
Well a bad man, cause they aren’t all like that
That said, while women are expected to be more positive and to not show feelings like anger and hate, it's more socially acceptable for us to cry than it is for men. Both genders have their problems.
How do I deal with it? Well, depends on the situation. When it comes to friends, I refuse to act in any certain way that would be expected of me due to my gender. It has clearly cost me some chances when it comes to forming friendships, perhaps even relationships, but I'm the type to rather be alone than in bad company.
When it comes to people at work, I try to live up to the workplace's expectations. These days it's pretty easy, but when it wasn't I just forced myself to deal with, reminding myself that I don't have to deal with it outside of working hours. Of course, some people have the option of just quitting their jobs if they're expected to act as someone they're not, be it because of gender roles or something else, but many, including me, don't have such a luxury; gotta pay the bills somehow and it was hard enough to get this current job.
With family, it's more complicated... of course, I can't say for certain when I'm expected to be a certain way because I'm a woman and when the same things would be expected of me even if I was a man, but I'm sure there are some things. Anyway, my number one tactic to dealing with it is simply to avoid topics of conversation that I know could end badly with my family, but the thing is, I'm bad at avoiding them. They just tend to come up, but I've gotten a little better over time. Another option that I'm slightly better at is simply to try to keep the emotions from showing 'cause that'll lead to less trouble, but since your problem is precisely not being allowed to show emotions, I suppose that won't help you.
By the way, do you have any brothers? I assumed that you might have and your brother(s) being allowed to do things you're not because you're a woman might be your biggest problem. I mean, I don't have any brothers, but with how old fashioned families my parents come from, I'm sure that if I did, they would be treated better than us girls since that's how it traditionally went in many places, here included.
“We don’t need feminism”?!
Uhh I read on reddit that some Centrelink person told a 18 year old to get a full time job or have a baby. Who encourages a teenager to have a baby like it’s a casual normal thing. Why is that even an option at 18?!? This is a professional! The best they can come up with is to pop out babies? What is the point of compulsory school if popping out babies is a career. Ew.
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