Most men here cant get women because they lack confidence

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quite an extreme
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01 May 2021, 6:22 am

cyberdad wrote:
I can't pretend to know how hard that is to overcome, but it should at least be an aspirational goal. Confidence comes with bravery and the more times you try, the better you become.

You expecting of people who are bad at making contacts and bad at making friends at all to create a lot of contacts in a magical way. People have a lot of prejudices towards people that they don't know and behaving strange once it comes to body language and are really bad at talking and at recognizing the way that others feel. That aren't the best preconditions for even making contacts at all and even if you do it's hard to make more afterwards as well. If your brain works differently and you don't even get what people are even expecting then you have a hard time at making friends and contacts. You are right that self-esteem is very important. But it's not the only thing. Empathy is a strange thing if it's alien to you. You are not only unaware of others but also unaware of yourself regarding others. That's a problem that many NTs are sharing of course but rarely to the same degree.


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01 May 2021, 7:06 am

quite an extreme wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
But it's not the only thing. Empathy is a strange thing if it's alien to you. You are not only unaware of others but also unaware of yourself regarding others. That's a problem that many NTs are sharing of course but rarely to the same degree.


Yes this is true, Thanks you for pointing this out. I think people with autism know what psychologists don't always factor, that different elements of brain function associated with socialisation are integrated and one influences the other.

But according to psychologists empathy can be trained. I think this is linked to social contacts in that the more effort you make to pay attention to people's feelings the more you understand them. But of course attention takes effort and concentration which competes with other things going on in the brain.



quite an extreme
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01 May 2021, 8:36 am

cyberdad wrote:
But according to psychologists empathy can be trained. I think this is linked to social contacts in that the more effort you make to pay attention to people's feelings the more you understand them. But of course attention takes effort and concentration which competes with other things going on in the brain.

Everybody can improve to read the emotions and intentions of people in a rational way but it's hard if it comes to get emotional expectations right especially if you don't even know the related feelings. Emotional empathy can't be trained.
Another problem is that hierarchy thing that seems to be important for NT women. What are they even after if it comes to that?


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nick007
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01 May 2021, 1:02 pm

quite an extreme wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
KT67 wrote:
Stop listening to male self help specialists.

Start listening to female friends.

If you don't have female friends, you're not ready for a girlfriend.

Not everyone has to have someone. If you're not into socialising, a relationship is a bad idea because it's pretty much sharing your life with someone.

That's why I'm happy single: people can just come and go in my life with no desire to 'own' them or 'have' them etc.


Something else I've been saying for years!

Mix with lots of females

Well if you don't listen to me, listen to KT67

For getting social contact you are required to have social contacts before? Great advice! Especially for people who are unable to do even eye contact when talking to others and don't realize nonverbal signals nor have even a real idea of the way that the mind of women or NTs at all who usually care that stuff works. :skull:
If people are shy at making contacts it's even worse.
Yep it is a conundrum & does seem like a catch 22 situation. I never had a lot of offline friends & a lot of the time I barely had any offline friends & no female friends. I also do not like socializing with others offline. I get worn out fast unless I am doing something like working & that is the main focus. However I LOVE spending a lot of time with my girlfriend hanging out together. It does NOT feel like socializing to me. She is the only person I am very comfortable with offline. I never even felt that comfortable with my parents. She doesn't really have friends either. She had a few friends before we moved in together but quickly realized they were only fair weather friends 1ce she was no longer going to church. I noticed that a lot of the advice on this forum is contradictory of my own personal experiences but then again the advice I've gotten on NT forums is more contradictory than what I have gotten & seen here on WP :shrug:


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cyberdad
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01 May 2021, 6:03 pm

quite an extreme wrote:
Emotional empathy can't be trained.


Yes good point. And in any case you can't conceal your true emotional states to a NT female once they get to know you. I think the point I am making is that there will be a lot of NT females who will choose to not consider you a potential partner due specifically to your autism (they won't say it but it will be on their minds). But if you network enough you will meet at least one NT girl who likes you enough to tolerate your differences.

The problem with focussing on one girl at a time is "putting all your eggs into one basket" which is investing on the hope she will be the one. In reality you need to canvass many girls to find the one.

This also illustrates the transactional nature of mating. For the NT girl who chooses to live with an autistic man there will be certain trade-offs they will make. Depending on the man it might be slight/small trade-offs or considerable.
Once you have spent time with the girl then of course other things come into play such as your looks/appearance, grooming, financial status, health, skills etc etc which become leverage to keep her interested. If these additional things are sufficiently attractive they will overcome any perceived deficit in personality, emotional intelligence, social skills etc.



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02 May 2021, 6:21 pm

salad wrote:
I'm sorry but this is my observation with a lot of the Aspie men I know here, they want a woman but their lack of confidence, desperation and need for a women oozes out so conspicuously they dont realize that they're only repelling any prospective partners the more they get desperate for a partner.

Look most people want a partner. But most people arent so desperate that they base their worth on whether they can find a partner or not, nor is it something that can consume them. BTW this thread is a generic thread not singling out anyone in particular, so if you read this thread and think im aiming it at someone please dont do that. This thread applies to many men, but especially the Aspie men who cant find partners, and thus Im making this thread for a lot of people.

Women want someone confidence, someone with spine, autonomy, and a sense of independent self worth which is lacking in people who wanting a partner goes from a want to a need. The moment someone'e entire self worth, existence and self validation becomes contingent on if another women likes them is ironically the moment they forever preempt said woman from loving them.

Top tier men, men who are alpha or even men who arent that high level but decently desirable, there's more on their plate than getting a woman. They have something about them that defines them that makes women want to find them, almost as if even if a woman doesnt accept them they have enough for themselves to survive but if a woman does love them its a bonus.

Thats what separates a want from a need. Wanting women isn't the same thing as needing a woman. Understand that difference and many of the men here who struggle with women while find themselves a lot more desirable and attractive.

And I want to emphasize again this thread is a general thread for men in general, not any member or members, heck not even Aspie men because many men struggle with this. They make finding a partner a goal that consumes them where it takes away from the autonomy and other qualities that would even make a woman want to find them. The moment men just develop themselves, build their own skills, become great people outside of a woman, then maybe more women will want to be in their lives. No one wants to be part of a boring or dull life. People want to join lives that already have something to offer.


I have read some variation on this straight-single-guy-dating-advice a hundred times at least and seen the terms "alpha / beta" male a thousand times, the modern culture seems obsessed by it, in reality these terms come from zoology and were used to describe ape males -and- females. If a woman is ape-like she will go for the alpha. If she is more akin to Homo Sapiens, she will have an independent view. You could respond that most women are ape-like. That is a possibility. However, I see plenty of what you refer to as "betas" that do just fine, and their partners seem contented with them.

Apparently a beta is a man that will not murder, rape and do whatever else is necessary to dominate in any situation. An alpha on the other hand is like the S.S. Stormtrooper or Pres. Trump. Just do whatever in order to win at whatever the competition might be. So the popular argument is that the S.S. gets laid, and the peaceful intellectual goes to his grave lonely and sad.


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quite an extreme
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02 May 2021, 6:41 pm

Gentleman Argentum wrote:
I have read some variation on this straight-single-guy-dating-advice a hundred times at least and seen the terms "alpha / beta" male a thousand times, the modern culture seems obsessed by it, in reality these terms come from zoology and were used to describe ape males -and- females. If a woman is ape-like she will go for the alpha...

Not even few do but ask the NT women why. Didn't yet get any answers here regarding my questions what up with hierarchy but not even few NT women seem to be kind of baboons emotionally if it comes to that. I have several times seen women skipping guys for others just because of this.


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02 May 2021, 11:19 pm

I'm not interested in the differences between men and women. I'd rather celebrate similarities.


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02 May 2021, 11:22 pm

Better yet, I'd rather be a pea. Male and female peas are very similar and they're the same size. :mrgreen:


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funeralxempire
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03 May 2021, 12:14 am

CockneyRebel wrote:
Better yet, I'd rather be a pea. Male and female peas are very similar and they're the same size. :mrgreen:


But peas don't have to worry about navigating human dating practises. :nerdy:


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03 May 2021, 1:19 am

Gentleman Argentum wrote:
I have read some variation on this straight-single-guy-dating-advice a hundred times at least and seen the terms "alpha / beta" male a thousand times, the modern culture seems obsessed by it, in reality these terms come from zoology and were used to describe ape males -and- females. If a woman is ape-like she will go for the alpha. If she is more akin to Homo Sapiens, she will have an independent view. You could respond that most women are ape-like. That is a possibility. However, I see plenty of what you refer to as "betas" that do just fine, and their partners seem contented with them.

Apparently a beta is a man that will not murder, rape and do whatever else is necessary to dominate in any situation. An alpha on the other hand is like the S.S. Stormtrooper or Pres. Trump. Just do whatever in order to win at whatever the competition might be. So the popular argument is that the S.S. gets laid, and the peaceful intellectual goes to his grave lonely and sad.
I'm confused that the term Alpha is being applied to ape males & to evil humans. Evil humans being compared to apes is extremely contradictory to me. Apes do NOT go to war with all other animals who are not apes & apes do NOT kill & destroy their habitat for pleasure. Evil humans are much more like mosquitoes, leeches, piranhas, locust, & venomous snakes than they are to apes. I really wish more humans were ape like cuz the world would be a much nicer place & a lot more straightforward.


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Last edited by nick007 on 03 May 2021, 1:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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03 May 2021, 1:23 am

nick007 wrote:
Gentleman Argentum wrote:
I have read some variation on this straight-single-guy-dating-advice a hundred times at least and seen the terms "alpha / beta" male a thousand times, the modern culture seems obsessed by it, in reality these terms come from zoology and were used to describe ape males -and- females. If a woman is ape-like she will go for the alpha. If she is more akin to Homo Sapiens, she will have an independent view. You could respond that most women are ape-like. That is a possibility. However, I see plenty of what you refer to as "betas" that do just fine, and their partners seem contented with them.

Apparently a beta is a man that will not murder, rape and do whatever else is necessary to dominate in any situation. An alpha on the other hand is like the S.S. Stormtrooper or Pres. Trump. Just do whatever in order to win at whatever the competition might be. So the popular argument is that the S.S. gets laid, and the peaceful intellectual goes to his grave lonely and sad.
I'm confused that the term Alpha is being applied to ape males & to evil humans. Evil humans being compared to apes is extremely contradictory to me. Apes do NOT go to war with all other animals who are not apes & apes do NOT kill & do bad for pleasure. Evil humans are much more like mosquitoes, leeches, piranhas, locust, & venomous snakes than they are to apes. I really wish more humans were ape like cuz the world would be a much nicer place & a lot more straightforward.


Chimps go to war.
Chimps kill for pleasure.


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03 May 2021, 1:26 am

funeralxempire wrote:
nick007 wrote:
Gentleman Argentum wrote:
I have read some variation on this straight-single-guy-dating-advice a hundred times at least and seen the terms "alpha / beta" male a thousand times, the modern culture seems obsessed by it, in reality these terms come from zoology and were used to describe ape males -and- females. If a woman is ape-like she will go for the alpha. If she is more akin to Homo Sapiens, she will have an independent view. You could respond that most women are ape-like. That is a possibility. However, I see plenty of what you refer to as "betas" that do just fine, and their partners seem contented with them.

Apparently a beta is a man that will not murder, rape and do whatever else is necessary to dominate in any situation. An alpha on the other hand is like the S.S. Stormtrooper or Pres. Trump. Just do whatever in order to win at whatever the competition might be. So the popular argument is that the S.S. gets laid, and the peaceful intellectual goes to his grave lonely and sad.
I'm confused that the term Alpha is being applied to ape males & to evil humans. Evil humans being compared to apes is extremely contradictory to me. Apes do NOT go to war with all other animals who are not apes & apes do NOT kill & do bad for pleasure. Evil humans are much more like mosquitoes, leeches, piranhas, locust, & venomous snakes than they are to apes. I really wish more humans were ape like cuz the world would be a much nicer place & a lot more straightforward.


Chimps go to war.
Chimps kill for pleasure.
Do they NOT invent weapons of mass destruction like nukes & assault rifles.


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03 May 2021, 1:54 am

funeralxempire wrote:
nick007 wrote:
Gentleman Argentum wrote:
I have read some variation on this straight-single-guy-dating-advice a hundred times at least and seen the terms "alpha / beta" male a thousand times, the modern culture seems obsessed by it, in reality these terms come from zoology and were used to describe ape males -and- females. If a woman is ape-like she will go for the alpha. If she is more akin to Homo Sapiens, she will have an independent view. You could respond that most women are ape-like. That is a possibility. However, I see plenty of what you refer to as "betas" that do just fine, and their partners seem contented with them.

Apparently a beta is a man that will not murder, rape and do whatever else is necessary to dominate in any situation. An alpha on the other hand is like the S.S. Stormtrooper or Pres. Trump. Just do whatever in order to win at whatever the competition might be. So the popular argument is that the S.S. gets laid, and the peaceful intellectual goes to his grave lonely and sad.
I'm confused that the term Alpha is being applied to ape males & to evil humans. Evil humans being compared to apes is extremely contradictory to me. Apes do NOT go to war with all other animals who are not apes & apes do NOT kill & do bad for pleasure. Evil humans are much more like mosquitoes, leeches, piranhas, locust, & venomous snakes than they are to apes. I really wish more humans were ape like cuz the world would be a much nicer place & a lot more straightforward.


Chimps go to war.
Chimps kill for pleasure.


Chimps are the only known animal apart from humans who like humping and masturbating for pleasure as well (not for reproduction).



quite an extreme
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03 May 2021, 2:14 am

cyberdad wrote:
Chimps are the only known animal apart from humans who like humping and masturbating for pleasure as well (not for reproduction).

That's wrong. There are many more mammals like this. Dogs, dolphins, hyenas ...
No animal has reproduction in mind if doing so. :wink: So it's always for pleasure only. :mrgreen:
But only humans and apes are known to be calculating regarding that.


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cyberdad
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03 May 2021, 2:25 am

quite an extreme wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Chimps are the only known animal apart from humans who like humping and masturbating for pleasure as well (not for reproduction).

That's wrong. There are many more mammals like this. Dogs, dolphins, hyenas ...
No animal has reproduction in mind if doing so. :wink: So it's always for pleasure only. :mrgreen:


Oh yes male dogs :lol: