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SabbraCadabra
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30 Apr 2021, 4:40 am

Mr Reynholm wrote:
This might be a good premise for some alt-world sic-fi novel but it bears little resemblance to reality.

Wait, what?
Did you seriously not notice all of the neo-Nazi rallies that were going on in 2016? Or did you just kind of forget about them?
Some of them were pretty big, they were all over the news: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unite_the_Right_rally


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cyberdad
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30 Apr 2021, 4:48 am

Reynholm is like the kid in the movie "6th Sense". He keeps seeing apparitions that other folk don't see but then misses obvious things right under his nose.



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30 Apr 2021, 9:07 am

cberg wrote:
The mods are gravely complicit in allowing these disgusting threads to carry on as if it's "just politics".
This thread is discussing the contention "America is NOT a Racist Country" which, in and of itself, has topical interest and will be allowed to stand.
We do not moderate the quality or worthiness of threads (except the occasional troll thread, or those immediately breaking the site rules), instead leaving it for members to decide what stands or falls through discussion.

No site rules are broken by this topic, although it is recognized that "hot button" subjects are likely to appear which may be, or give rise to, rule breaks, perhaps more so than other topics in PPR.

Thus far the discussion is reasonable, with a range of arguments for and against, and maintaining an even keel.
Consequently there is no reason for moderator intervention.

cberg wrote:
FFS find your backbones & put at least a word in for the people whose lives are being marginalized.
As a moderator we will not "officially" support or attempt to influence any discussion one way or another. Our aim is to simply handle rule breaks or poster difficulties.
As a member we are free to take part in discussions like any member.
I believe the distinction between the two posting styles is self-evident (often helped by use of the "Moderator" post tag) but in the event of confusion, please feel free to query the moderator in question by PM.


Thread unlocked.


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cyberdad
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30 Apr 2021, 11:22 pm

So this thread is no longer locked



ApricitiousRory
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05 May 2021, 7:01 pm

In my work I come into contact with a great deal of data on healthcare disparities and they make it painfully clear that systemic racism pervades the USA, both historically and currently. If I doubted that, all I would have to do is listen to my BIPOC and AAPI friends and family, and believe what they say about their experiences.

White supremacy exists. It relies on systemic racism to justify itself. Denial of those realities doesn’t magically make racism, or the many societal disparities & ills it engenders, vanish. IMO, the only way to diminish & defeat white supremacy is to be actively anti-racist.

I believe the USA doesn’t have to be a racist country. Getting to that particular American Dream demands clear hindsight, honest discourse, and most of all, acknowledging the reality of what BIPOC & AAPI Americans have been telling White Americans for many, many years.



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06 May 2021, 1:55 am

ApricitiousRory wrote:
Getting to that particular American Dream demands clear hindsight, honest discourse, and most of all, acknowledging the reality of what BIPOC & AAPI Americans have been telling White Americans for many, many years.


If you look at past history there often has to be violent conflict before the American government will listen to BIPOC and AAPI people. The civil war was about the south continuing to live off the labour of black slaves. It took the deaths of thousands for morality to win.

It's not just the endless civili rights marches that went on for 30 years but also the lynchings, violent burning of black businesses and appropriation of land stolen from black and other BIPOC/AAPI people.

When black people tried to be civil and start their own communities after slavery and participate in democrtatic process they were violently restrained for almost 100 years till civil rights laws were eventually passed. History has taught then when black Americans tried to peacefully "talk" nobody listened to them. So they took to the streets. Hence the LA riots and the BLM protests.



ApricitiousRory
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10 May 2021, 11:20 am

cyberdad wrote:
ApricitiousRory wrote:
Getting to that particular American Dream demands clear hindsight, honest discourse, and most of all, acknowledging the reality of what BIPOC & AAPI Americans have been telling White Americans for many, many years.


If you look at past history there often has to be violent conflict before the American government will listen to BIPOC and AAPI people. The civil war was about the south continuing to live off the labour of black slaves. It took the deaths of thousands for morality to win.

It's not just the endless civili rights marches that went on for 30 years but also the lynchings, violent burning of black businesses and appropriation of land stolen from black and other BIPOC/AAPI people.

When black people tried to be civil and start their own communities after slavery and participate in democrtatic process they were violently restrained for almost 100 years till civil rights laws were eventually passed. History has taught then when black Americans tried to peacefully "talk" nobody listened to them. So they took to the streets. Hence the LA riots and the BLM protests.


Agreed. There are decades of accounts of black people being told by white people in one way or another, "you're not protesting right", and it continues today. When you can point to daily examples of unarmed people like you who are being killed by the very people who are paid by your tax dollars to uphold laws, it is any wonder anger & frustration erupt when you see justice brutally denied again & again? If the real world results of being compliant with police instructions is a knee on your neck until you die, or a shower of bullets into your car or into your back, or mace in your face, is it really hard to understand? What's hard for me to understand is that roughly 150 years after the Restoration was allowed to collapse, there are still any people who can't or won't see the racism my BIPOC & AAPI friends/family experience daily.


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FlaminPika
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15 May 2021, 5:08 am

I just think this culture war and growing racial tension will never be ameliorated by the presence of a galvanized right wing and a galvanized left wing. Rather instead the growing polarization between demographics will only worsen civil tensions and I'm afraid nothing will fix that.



SabbraCadabra
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15 May 2021, 9:22 pm

FlaminPika wrote:
I just think this culture war and growing racial tension will never be ameliorated by the presence of a galvanized right wing and a galvanized left wing. Rather instead the growing polarization between demographics will only worsen civil tensions and I'm afraid nothing will fix that.

Exactly.
I really do believe that all of the seed-sowing social media bots were sent from another country, with the intent of weakening our own.


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cyberdad
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15 May 2021, 10:17 pm

ApricitiousRory wrote:
What's hard for me to understand is that roughly 150 years after the Restoration was allowed to collapse, there are still any people who can't or won't see the racism my BIPOC & AAPI friends/family experience daily.


The right wing have enlisted the help of conservative intellectuals. The greatest warrior of the right carving swathes through the online community is Jordan Peterson. Peterson is extremely intelligent but his essential mantra to BIPOC and AAPI are as follows
1. The western world has introduced laws to protect civil rights so the argument for systemic racism can longer be justified
2. People need to take individual responsibility for themselves and not resort to victimhood.
3. The perpetuation of race to justify more rights for minorities goes against MLK judging people on their character rather than skin colour (this is specifically to remove diversity quotas).
4. The left use flawed data to assert heir claims on white privilege. How come other black immigrant communities like Nigerians or Caribbeans are more successful than even white Americans? doesn't this prove white privilege is false?

The most powerful message is point number 2 (which I highlighted) because it fits perfectly into the American cultural ethos of rugged individualism. People can't help themselves till they take ownership or personal responsibility for their own problems if they want to succeed. Many black republicans are not surprisingly highly successful and educated and say if I can do it then why can't you? then of course it's the democrats who are blamed for holding black people back.



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18 May 2021, 12:53 pm

cyberdad wrote:
ApricitiousRory wrote:
What's hard for me to understand is that roughly 150 years after the Restoration was allowed to collapse, there are still any people who can't or won't see the racism my BIPOC & AAPI friends/family experience daily.


The right wing have enlisted the help of conservative intellectuals. The greatest warrior of the right carving swathes through the online community is Jordan Peterson. Peterson is extremely intelligent but his essential mantra to BIPOC and AAPI are as follows
1. The western world has introduced laws to protect civil rights so the argument for systemic racism can longer be justified
2. People need to take individual responsibility for themselves and not resort to victimhood.
3. The perpetuation of race to justify more rights for minorities goes against MLK judging people on their character rather than skin colour (this is specifically to remove diversity quotas).
4. The left use flawed data to assert heir claims on white privilege. How come other black immigrant communities like Nigerians or Caribbeans are more successful than even white Americans? doesn't this prove white privilege is false?

The most powerful message is point number 2 (which I highlighted) because it fits perfectly into the American cultural ethos of rugged individualism. People can't help themselves till they take ownership or personal responsibility for their own problems if they want to succeed. Many black republicans are not surprisingly highly successful and educated and say if I can do it then why can't you? then of course it's the democrats who are blamed for holding black people back.

Of course Jordan Peterson speaks the truth, Taking responsibility for ones own life is the only way one will succeed. Color is irrelevant.



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18 May 2021, 1:22 pm

Color SHOULD be irrelevant.....but it really isn't.

There are people around who still have racist notions----mostly borne out of ignorance.

I don't BELIEVE "affirmative action" is an ideal situation. I believe it keeps "minorities" in a position of perceived inferiority. My personal wish is that it goes away.

Alas, though, it remains necessary in some situations.



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18 May 2021, 1:56 pm

It's mostly the "Woke" or the Race Grievance Crowds who obsess on race. Most ordiary people don't.
The reason people are so quick to hurl the label of "Racist" is because it works incredibly well to silence opposition and instill fear of being thought of as a racist.



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18 May 2021, 2:27 pm

Mr Reynholm wrote:
It's mostly the "Woke" or the Race Grievance Crowds who obsess on race. Most ordiary people don't.
The reason people are so quick to hurl the label of "Racist" is because it works incredibly well to silence opposition and instill fear of being thought of as a racist.


Either that or because it's an accurate term to describe those who march with confederate flags and who become hysterical whenever historical racism is discussed. :chin:


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Mr Reynholm
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18 May 2021, 2:53 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
It's mostly the "Woke" or the Race Grievance Crowds who obsess on race. Most ordiary people don't.
The reason people are so quick to hurl the label of "Racist" is because it works incredibly well to silence opposition and instill fear of being thought of as a racist.


Either that or because it's an accurate term to describe those who march with confederate flags and who become hysterical whenever historical racism is discussed. :chin:

Unlikely.
Mostly its to impose power on others. Thats why the definition has to be twisted like a pretzel in order to fit anyone.



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18 May 2021, 4:42 pm

Mr Reynholm wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
It's mostly the "Woke" or the Race Grievance Crowds who obsess on race. Most ordiary people don't.
The reason people are so quick to hurl the label of "Racist" is because it works incredibly well to silence opposition and instill fear of being thought of as a racist.


Either that or because it's an accurate term to describe those who march with confederate flags and who become hysterical whenever historical racism is discussed. :chin:

Unlikely.
Mostly its to impose power on others. Thats why the definition has to be twisted like a pretzel in order to fit anyone.


Yes it's always the left. Its funny that issues like immigration and teaching history in class only became an issue when it came to BIPOC?

There's literally hundreds of videos of white parents across the US protesting CRT being taught in their schools. What they are really protesting is the teaching of history to their kids.