Question if Broad Autism Phenotype should be a diagnosis

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FranzOren
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FranzOren
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05 May 2021, 7:18 pm

I just want the diagnostic criteria for ASD to be ten times more broad, so even people with the just a tiny portion traits of ASD can be diagnosed with some form of ASD as well.

I hope you know what I mean. But that if it is only if the small traits of Broad Autism Phenotype -aka tiny portion of ASD is causing people distress in daily life that is related to social demands.



FranzOren
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06 May 2021, 1:24 am

I think the new DSM or ICD should rename it to “Autism Spectrum and Other Pervasive Developmental Disorders”, because there are a lot of none-autistic developmental disorders that includes ASD-like features and I consider these disorders as Pervasive Developmental Disorders.



Steve B
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07 May 2021, 6:10 am

The Broad Autism Phenotype is the term used for someone who has many autism traits but doesn't meet the full requirements for an ASD for what ever reason, Usually because they don't meet DSM-5 ASD criteria "D" which requires the autistic traits to cause some kind of genuine disability, even when taking into account the negative effects of masking and compensation (eg fatigue and mental health issues).

The person can be described as "autistic" in the sense that have many traits of autism and will probably relate well to people in the autism community, but those traits are not disabling enough to be thought of as a "disorder" so doesn't really warrant a medical diagnosis.



FranzOren
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07 May 2021, 9:01 am

That is an excellent answer. Thank you!



FranzOren
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07 May 2021, 3:49 pm

You can still be diagnosed with ASD-related developmental disorder if you don't meet the criteria D for ASD. But I understand what you mean.



FranzOren
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08 May 2021, 1:28 pm

I made my own new diagnostic criteria called Oren Franz Syndrome.

What is Oren Franz Syndrome?

Oren Franz Syndrome is a form of Autism were all symptoms of ASD remits late in life with support and therapy and where cases of people lose their ASD diagnosis when they are considered to be completely improved over time after reviving therapy.


Symptoms of Oren Franz Syndrome includes history of:

* Communication delays
* Restricted Interests
* Repetitive behaviors
* May include sensory issues as well

But all of these symptoms remits late in life with support and therapy.


When some people lose Autism diagnosis, they should be re-diagnosed with my new diagnostic criteria.



CockneyRebel
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08 May 2021, 10:19 pm

I think that it should be a diagnosis. I also think that Asperger's Syndrome should be back in the DSM.


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FranzOren
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08 May 2021, 10:36 pm

It makes sense.



MaxE
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09 May 2021, 12:23 pm

Steve B wrote:
The Broad Autism Phenotype is the term used for someone who has many autism traits but doesn't meet the full requirements for an ASD for what ever reason, Usually because they don't meet DSM-5 ASD criteria "D" which requires the autistic traits to cause some kind of genuine disability, even when taking into account the negative effects of masking and compensation (eg fatigue and mental health issues).

This is a major issue. Many people have publicly claimed to have AS (most recently Elon Musk) but they are clearly not disabled. To me, somebody is disabled if their degree of disability qualifies them for government assistance or at least workplace accommodation. Now that AS is not even a legitimate diagnosis (not sure whether Elon Musk was aware) it casts doubt on some previous diagnoses that were handed down by certified by bona fide professionals, along with any diagnosis obtained through some on-line test. My brother-in-law has a son who was diagnosed with AS as a child. He is now almost 18 and through most of his life has been heavily medicated to the extent that he developed a somewhat bloated appearance. At one point he had to spend time in a hospital to withdraw from all his medications but then he was given a whole new set of medications to take. He is enrolled in a Special high school and his mother (who has a shelf filled with 20 different books on the topic of Asperger's Syndrome) has encouraged him to expect to live in a group home with a counselor after attaining adulthood. Is this kid genuinely disabled? Even if he is, I can not ever bring myself to believe Elon Musk (whom I admire BTW) or even somebody like John Elder Robison is "disabled".

This also gets into what I would call the "Max vs. Hank" question. A few years ago there was a TV program named "Parenthood" in which a family had a kid who was diagnosed AS as a child, then in the last series they had an adult character Hank, who had a failed marriage and was from NYC and therefore quirky, begin suspect to AS and he was in fact diagnosed. I had asked the question here at the time, which one is the real "aspie"?

One other point is that any sort of autism is basically a set of symptoms, but the symptoms don't necessarily have the same cause. Some people have Sensory Processing Disorder and exhibit symptoms consistent with an autism diagnosis. Other people have impaired Theory of Mind but no obvious problem with sensory overload and they can also be diagnosed autistic or AS.

I think what really matters is a.) what are your symptoms and b.) how do they impact your life? If governments weren't in the habit of giving benefits to people who can qualify as disabled then I doubt we would really care about the formal diagnosis.


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FranzOren
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09 May 2021, 12:54 pm

Thank you! I understood.



Jiheisho
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09 May 2021, 1:05 pm

MaxE wrote:
Steve B wrote:
The Broad Autism Phenotype is the term used for someone who has many autism traits but doesn't meet the full requirements for an ASD for what ever reason, Usually because they don't meet DSM-5 ASD criteria "D" which requires the autistic traits to cause some kind of genuine disability, even when taking into account the negative effects of masking and compensation (eg fatigue and mental health issues).

This is a major issue. Many people have publicly claimed to have AS (most recently Elon Musk) but they are clearly not disabled. To me, somebody is disabled if their degree of disability qualifies them for government assistance or at least workplace accommodation. Now that AS is not even a legitimate diagnosis (not sure whether Elon Musk was aware) it casts doubt on some previous diagnoses that were handed down by certified by bona fide professionals, along with any diagnosis obtained through some on-line test. My brother-in-law has a son who was diagnosed with AS as a child. He is now almost 18 and through most of his life has been heavily medicated to the extent that he developed a somewhat bloated appearance. At one point he had to spend time in a hospital to withdraw from all his medications but then he was given a whole new set of medications to take. He is enrolled in a Special high school and his mother (who has a shelf filled with 20 different books on the topic of Asperger's Syndrome) has encouraged him to expect to live in a group home with a counselor after attaining adulthood. Is this kid genuinely disabled? Even if he is, I can not ever bring myself to believe Elon Musk (whom I admire BTW) or even somebody like John Elder Robison is "disabled".

This also gets into what I would call the "Max vs. Hank" question. A few years ago there was a TV program named "Parenthood" in which a family had a kid who was diagnosed AS as a child, then in the last series they had an adult character Hank, who had a failed marriage and was from NYC and therefore quirky, begin suspect to AS and he was in fact diagnosed. I had asked the question here at the time, which one is the real "aspie"?

One other point is that any sort of autism is basically a set of symptoms, but the symptoms don't necessarily have the same cause. Some people have Sensory Processing Disorder and exhibit symptoms consistent with an autism diagnosis. Other people have impaired Theory of Mind but no obvious problem with sensory overload and they can also be diagnosed autistic or AS.

I think what really matters is a.) what are your symptoms and b.) how do they impact your life? If governments weren't in the habit of giving benefits to people who can qualify as disabled then I doubt we would really care about the formal diagnosis.


I was diagnosed at the age of 56. While I have some sensory sensitivity, I sought my diagnosis based on the social communication deficits in the DSM-5 (I also show repetitive behaviors). I also met one other important criteria for ASD: evidence of this in early childhood. I do not need government assistance nor do I need particular environmental work accommodations. However, as required by the DSM-5, I have significant impairments in occupational areas, usually resulting in bullying and threats to my livelihood. Am I "Aspie" enough?

What I find at WP is very personal view of what autism is and isn't. There is a really clear definition of ASD in the DSM-5. If you meet those criteria, then I would say you are autistic. If you don't, then a clinical diagnosis should not be given. And we should be clear: ASD is not simply a bunch of traits, but traits that significantly impact functioning. There is a telling documentary about Daniel Tammet when he was interview by Simon Baron-Cohen to assess whether he was autistic. Baron-Cohen said that if Daniel had not benn so successful in his life, he would be able to get an ASD diagnosis. In other words, the final metric is if it is causing impairment, not just that traits are evident.

BTW, being disabled just does not give you government benefits (or not, as in my case), but also protection under the law, the Americans with Disability Act, for example. I would still seek a diagnosis for ASD even if that was not the case because it explains a great deal about my experience throughout my life. It gives me a context to help me navigate this world.



FranzOren
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09 May 2021, 1:10 pm

If you don't meet criteria D, you can still have a developmental disorder of some sort, but it may not be ASD.



FranzOren
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09 May 2021, 1:11 pm

The reason why I asked this question is that since Autism is a spectrum developmental disorder, we should include people who are well developed enough to have NT social skills, but have ASD-like traits that caused them developmental distress.