Critical race theory in national curriculum promotes 'victim

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cyberdad
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15 May 2021, 8:37 pm

vividgroovy wrote:
Getting back to the topic: Benny, the landlord, is usually cast with a black actor, so another thing people complain about is that the show depicts the white characters as poor and the black guy as their landlord. This is not how things usually are, these people say. However, there have been black property owners and poor white people for quite some time, so it's not outside the realm of possibility. Certainly, the show isn't trying to say that all landlords are black. Indeed, if Mark and Roger were depicted as poor black artists and Benny was the white guy who helped them out by letting them stay there for free, it would probably be condemned as promoting the "white savior complex." Likewise, people also complain about a similar situation in the movie "La La Land," where the lead is a poor white jazz musician whose more successful black friend gives him a job. "It's historically inaccurate!" people say of this fictitious musical set in the present.


Yes this illustrates that CRT can't (and shouldn't) be used to compromise historical accuracy for the sake of giving black actors a gig. My brain can't honestly process seeing black Roman cavalry, black Pharoahs, black Greek soldiers or black Anglo-Saxons in classic British or Greek stories and copious numbers of black people wandering around the streets of London in the 1800s. None of this is historically accurate and (in my view) spoils the story.

The counter-argument is that a lot of these depictions were fictional to start of with (e.g, Beowulf and Troy) so it shouldn't matter who plays the characters. So if the Hollywood depiction you speak of turn the tables on how things actually were then I can see how this is misrepresenting history. This is where Fargo was interesting to me as it depicted the actual true story of how black gangs in 1950 Kansas city did rule the city (for a while) and whites did their bidding until the FBI smashed them.



kraftiekortie
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15 May 2021, 9:18 pm

They believe Troy was an actual political entity, actually.



vividgroovy
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15 May 2021, 11:24 pm

cyberdad wrote:
vividgroovy wrote:
Getting back to the topic: Benny, the landlord, is usually cast with a black actor, so another thing people complain about is that the show depicts the white characters as poor and the black guy as their landlord. This is not how things usually are, these people say. However, there have been black property owners and poor white people for quite some time, so it's not outside the realm of possibility. Certainly, the show isn't trying to say that all landlords are black. Indeed, if Mark and Roger were depicted as poor black artists and Benny was the white guy who helped them out by letting them stay there for free, it would probably be condemned as promoting the "white savior complex." Likewise, people also complain about a similar situation in the movie "La La Land," where the lead is a poor white jazz musician whose more successful black friend gives him a job. "It's historically inaccurate!" people say of this fictitious musical set in the present.


Yes this illustrates that CRT can't (and shouldn't) be used to compromise historical accuracy for the sake of giving black actors a gig. My brain can't honestly process seeing black Roman cavalry, black Pharoahs, black Greek soldiers or black Anglo-Saxons in classic British or Greek stories and copious numbers of black people wandering around the streets of London in the 1800s. None of this is historically accurate and (in my view) spoils the story.

The counter-argument is that a lot of these depictions were fictional to start of with (e.g, Beowulf and Troy) so it shouldn't matter who plays the characters. So if the Hollywood depiction you speak of turn the tables on how things actually were then I can see how this is misrepresenting history. This is where Fargo was interesting to me as it depicted the actual true story of how black gangs in 1950 Kansas city did rule the city (for a while) and whites did their bidding until the FBI smashed them.


I agree with you that it can be distracting when the setting is actually historical. If they're aiming for realism, it can be distracting. If it's a highly fictionalized setting, I don't think it should make a difference. In the 1990s TV movie of Rodgers and Hammerstein's "Cinderella," Victor Garber and Whoopi Goldberg have an Asian son and I don't think it matters because of the fairy tale setting. Also, to some degree, the theatre is usually more abstract than film and television, so I think inaccuracy might be more acceptable there.

"Rent" was set in the very recent past at the time it premiered. Black landlords existed at that time. It isn't inaccurate to show one. The people who have a problem with the "accuracy" of Benny being the landlord subscribe to the ideas of CRT. Their assumption is: if a work of fiction shows something, it's saying that's how things always are. Thus, in their view, fictional story with a black landlord and poor white tenants = "Rent" is saying all landlords are black and all poor tenants are white = spreading lies about racial inequality. I think this assumption is unreasonable. In the same vein, "Toostie: The Musical" is about a straight, cis male who pretends to be a woman in order to get an acting gig. They interpret this purposely absurd comedic concept as saying that all trans people are "faking it" in order to get a job or that all women have an easier time getting a job than men and thus, interpret the premise as transphobic and condemn everyone who doesn't agree with their interpretation as transphobic.



cyberdad
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16 May 2021, 3:26 am

vividgroovy wrote:
If it's a highly fictionalized setting, I don't think it should make a difference. In the 1990s TV movie of Rodgers and Hammerstein's "Cinderella," Victor Garber and Whoopi Goldberg have an Asian son and I don't think it matters because of the fairy tale setting. Also, to some degree, the theatre is usually more abstract than film and television, so I think inaccuracy might be more acceptable there.

I also feel science fiction can accommodate more BIPOC actors, I always thought grumblings from fans about black or Asian characters in Harry Potter, Star Wars and Hunger Games was purely racist and narrow minded.

vividgroovy wrote:
"Rent" was set in the very recent past at the time it premiered. Black landlords existed at that time. It isn't inaccurate to show one. The people who have a problem with the "accuracy" of Benny being the landlord subscribe to the ideas of CRT. Their assumption is: if a work of fiction shows something, it's saying that's how things always are. Thus, in their view, fictional story with a black landlord and poor white tenants = "Rent" is saying all landlords are black and all poor tenants are white = spreading lies about racial inequality. I think this assumption is unreasonable. In the same vein, "Toostie: The Musical" is about a straight, cis male who pretends to be a woman in order to get an acting gig. They interpret this purposely absurd comedic concept as saying that all trans people are "faking it" in order to get a job or that all women have an easier time getting a job than men and thus, interpret the premise as transphobic and condemn everyone who doesn't agree with their interpretation as transphobic.


There's certainly complex nuance here. One of the things movie producers know is the less realistic casting is and more diverse a cast then the less money they make at the box office. I'm not blind to notice that the biggest blockbusters that made mega-millions all had a 99% white cast. Black Panther was the first movie to break that mold but it's really a one-off.