Responding gracefully to constructive criticism

Page 2 of 3 [ 40 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

Mona Pereth
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Sep 2018
Gender: Female
Posts: 7,810
Location: New York City (Queens)

07 May 2021, 5:24 pm

BeaArthur wrote:
I do have a bit of constructive criticism for you though, Mona. You very frequently have a well conceived, thoughtfully laid out teaching or didactic piece to offer us poor unfortunate aspies.

Ugh! It sounds like I've been coming across to you as condescending. I'm sorry if I come across that way, which is certainly not my intent. I'm not sure how best to fix that, if indeed that's how I'm perceived. This is something I'll need to think about, I guess.

BeaArthur wrote:
I'm not sure how many people follow you into another thread, or go to your blog or website with all the fixes. The fact is, all this just rubs me the wrong way. I wouldn't be surprised if it affects other people similarly. I have not accepted you as a professional whom I want to follow,

I'm not a professional and I don't claim to be one. Rather, I am a fervent advocate of building the autistic community. (Here I mean "community" in the sense of organized subculture, analogous to the LGBTQ+ community and to various disability communities, e.g. the blind and deaf communities, that are much better-organized than the autistic community.)

Based on my knowledge of the history of various social movements, I believe that building a much bigger and better-organized autistic community is a necessary step toward a more autistic-friendly world. Advocacy groups like ASAN have an essential role too, but they are nowhere nearly enough.

For a list of some of the many kinds of groups I think we need, see Longterm visions for the autistic community.

In order for the community to be built, some of us have to self-train in leadership skills. To that end, I've founded the Autistic Peer Leadership Group, whose meetings have rotating leadership, to give all of us chances to practice leading the group. There are no professionals involved in leading that group, but it is my hope that we can, together, develop an effective self-training program, using already-existing tutorials on leadership skills.

Besides our autistic peer support / self-help group and the Autistic Peer Leadership Group itself, the groups we intend to create include career-oriented groups, pertaining to specific categories of professions / occupations / jobs, and hobby-oriented social groups revolving around specific hobbies. So far we've created one group of each of these two kinds, plus two groups for discussion of societal/political matters.

BeaArthur wrote:
I come here partly for support and partly for the occasional perspective I may have not experienced on my own - not a reading list or a complete curriculum on reforming myself.

My website does not contain a "complete curriculum on reforming" oneself. On the contrary, in the more autistic-friendly world I hope to help build, some of the ways in which autistic people are currently pressured to "reform ourselves" would no longer be necessary. For example, we would no longer be expected to imitate NT body language.

However, even in the most autistic-friendly possible world, there are some social skills we would still need. I call these the "autistic-friendly social skills," as distinct from blending in with NT's. These same skills are also essential to the community-building project, which is why my website has pages about them, and is also why the topic-oriented meetings of my autistic peer-led self-help/support group tend to focus on this particular set of skills.

Incidentally, I should also say that I'm a big believer in self-help groups. I've known a bunch of people who have been involved in, and who swear by, various 12-Step programs, which are "forever nonprofessional." My peer-led self-help/support group is not a 12-Step program, but it is my hope that we can eventually develop a self-help program of our own that can be replicated by other groups.

I do believe that professional psychotherapy is valuable too (I'm seeing a therapist too), but I think it's best to avoid leaning too heavily on our therapists. I think a combination of professional psychotherapy and a non-professional peer-led support/self-help group would probably be best for many of us.

As for my website, I aim eventually to make it a comprehensive resource site for autistic adults in the NYC area, including lists of local autism-aware psychotherapists, social workers, professional-led groups, and other assorted services of various kinds, as well as autistic peer-led groups, including both the groups led or facilitated by members of the Autistic Peer Leadership Group and other autistic peer-led groups as well.

Thank you for your feedback. I hope I've clarified my aims and motives.


_________________
- Autistic in NYC - Resources and new ideas for the autistic adult community in the New York City metro area.
- Autistic peer-led groups (via text-based chat, currently) led or facilitated by members of the Autistic Peer Leadership Group.
- My Twitter / "X" (new as of 2021)


BeaArthur
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Aug 2015
Posts: 5,798

07 May 2021, 9:14 pm

Well, you would have, but I stopped reading at your first hyperlink to more of your wisdom. You obviously don't "get" me, and I don't "get" you. But carry on, build a community out of people who don't do well in groups, one day you'll be famous.


_________________
A finger in every pie.


Mona Pereth
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Sep 2018
Gender: Female
Posts: 7,810
Location: New York City (Queens)

08 May 2021, 1:15 am

Actually the first hyperlink wasn't to anything of mine, be it wisdom or foolishness, but to the website of ASAN (the Autistic Self Advocacy Network), which I am not personally involved with.

The remaining hyperlinks went to details and examples of the kinds of things I'm currently involved in and/or that I aim to accomplish.

So you didn't need to click on the links to get the gist of what I was saying. They were there for the sake of those readers who would be interested in the details.


_________________
- Autistic in NYC - Resources and new ideas for the autistic adult community in the New York City metro area.
- Autistic peer-led groups (via text-based chat, currently) led or facilitated by members of the Autistic Peer Leadership Group.
- My Twitter / "X" (new as of 2021)


Mona Pereth
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Sep 2018
Gender: Female
Posts: 7,810
Location: New York City (Queens)

08 May 2021, 2:31 pm

BeaArthur wrote:
But carry on, build a community out of people who don't do well in groups, one day you'll be famous.

Groups of autistic people already exist. That, in and of itself, is nothing new. For example, most major cities already have at least one autistic/Aspie peer-led support group.

There are also some larger, more complex organizations of autistic people, such as ASAN. There are even a few autistic-led organizations that manage to hold annual conferences, which are both socially and logistically much more challenging to organize than the smaller, simpler kinds of groups I've been building.

I doubt that very many of even the best leaders among us can handle the politics of a large organization. But I hope networks of smaller groups, centered around leadership self-training groups, will be feasible for more of us.


_________________
- Autistic in NYC - Resources and new ideas for the autistic adult community in the New York City metro area.
- Autistic peer-led groups (via text-based chat, currently) led or facilitated by members of the Autistic Peer Leadership Group.
- My Twitter / "X" (new as of 2021)


Cuppacoffee
Hummingbird
Hummingbird

Joined: 8 Jun 2021
Gender: Female
Posts: 20

16 Jul 2021, 7:01 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
You damned right I do!

I take the "stand" that Mona is one who is truly dedicated to improving the lot of those with autism. I don't agree with everything she says; and she certainly doesn't agree with everything I say.

I feel like she's sincere about what she does and says, even if it's not always "right" in my view.

By the way, my view on Mona has nothing to do with my view on Bea.


Hi Kraftie.

I'm fairly new and have done a lot more reading than writing - though quite a lot of that too, for me. You seem smart, diplomatic and well grounded.
The topic name sounds very useful for my reactive lad. But I grow weary of reading, especially articles that appear long.
Is it worth a read, in your opinion?

Ta.



blazingstar
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Nov 2017
Age: 70
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,234

17 Jul 2021, 8:27 pm

Back to the OP.

A simple, graceful way to respond to constructive criticism is to say "thank you." Keeping it simple works in case my emotions get too caught up in it. That works well for me.

In general, I have found that "thank you" works to smooth over many situations. In my work, I have clients/family/guardians who call or email me upset about something or another. I always try to say, "thank you for bringing this to my attention." It occurs to me this could also be a good way to respond to criticism of any sort.

I believe we all try the best we can to communicate and support each other. Different people have different things to bring to the table. And like a buffet, if you don't like something, you can choose not to read it (and not to respond to it.)


_________________
The river is the melody
And sky is the refrain
- Gordon Lightfoot


ezbzbfcg2
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2013
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,936
Location: New Jersey, USA

17 Jul 2021, 8:39 pm

I know this might sound like I'm singling a user out. Not my intention, just an observation. I see a post like this:

BeaArthur wrote:
I do have a bit of constructive criticism for you though, Mona. You very frequently have a well conceived, thoughtfully laid out teaching or didactic piece to offer us poor unfortunate aspies. I'm not sure how many people follow you into another thread, or go to your blog or website with all the fixes. The fact is, all this just rubs me the wrong way. I wouldn't be surprised if it affects other people similarly. I have not accepted you as a professional whom I want to follow, even if you were and even if you had much to offer.


While I feel the individual is entitled to their opinion, I don't understand the context. Unless something else is going on between the user and the OP, this posting makes zero sense to me. Reminds me of the "change the channel" adage if you don't like a TV show.

If the OP had attempted to lecture the user in some rebuttal, I think this honest critique would be appropriate. As it appears, it seems more like saying, "I don't like your style!" The user has some hang-up with the OP and wants to 'stick it to her.'

Maybe I've misinterpreted, I'm an Aspie. If the OP had responded to the user, and the user replied thus, I'd understand. Out of the blue, it does not seem constructive or even warranted in the first place. More of a hang-up.

I guess what bugs me the most is the implication that, "I feel this way, and I'm sure OTHERS do as well." Reminds me very much of one person going out of their way to say, "I don't like you...NOBODY likes you." Just the overall vibe.



AngelL
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

Joined: 13 Jul 2021
Gender: Male
Posts: 349
Location: Seattle, WA

19 Jul 2021, 5:49 pm

ezbzbfcg2 wrote:
I know this might sound like I'm singling a user out. Not my intention, just an observation. I see a post like this:

BeaArthur wrote:
I do have a bit of constructive criticism for you though, Mona. You very frequently have a well conceived, thoughtfully laid out teaching or didactic piece to offer us poor unfortunate aspies. I'm not sure how many people follow you into another thread, or go to your blog or website with all the fixes. The fact is, all this just rubs me the wrong way. I wouldn't be surprised if it affects other people similarly. I have not accepted you as a professional whom I want to follow, even if you were and even if you had much to offer.


While I feel the individual is entitled to their opinion, I don't understand the context. Unless something else is going on between the user and the OP, this posting makes zero sense to me. Reminds me of the "change the channel" adage if you don't like a TV show.

If the OP had attempted to lecture the user in some rebuttal, I think this honest critique would be appropriate. As it appears, it seems more like saying, "I don't like your style!" The user has some hang-up with the OP and wants to 'stick it to her.'

Maybe I've misinterpreted, I'm an Aspie. If the OP had responded to the user, and the user replied thus, I'd understand. Out of the blue, it does not seem constructive or even warranted in the first place. More of a hang-up.

I guess what bugs me the most is the implication that, "I feel this way, and I'm sure OTHERS do as well." Reminds me very much of one person going out of their way to say, "I don't like you...NOBODY likes you." Just the overall vibe.


Fascinating all the different takes... I haven't been here (WP) very long, and I certainly am not looking to stir the pot at all - but 'rubs me the wrong way' took the words out of the air around me because I said that aloud to myself minutes before I read Bea's version. That said, whether something rubs me the wrong way says more about me than it does the other person. I know what rubbed me the wrong way though, and I'll share what that was, precisely because it says more about me than it does them.

Someone quite early on said something along the lines of, 'I don't want people to be assertive with me I want them to be clear and explicit'. They were told it was the same thing. They were told that if they wanted to discuss it they had to go elsewhere. And, if they followed the link they would have found a definition already waiting for them that said:

Assertiveness means expressing your concerns clearly and explicitly.

It's sort of like having the following conversation:

I prefer apples over oranges.
Apples and Oranges are the same thing. You seem confused. I can help get you unconfused over <here> by defining apples and oranges as the same thing there.

Doesn't seem like there's room for conversation, except to learn why they're 'wrong'. Struck me as condescending as heck. Now I do not know the OP. For all I know, it seems condescending to me because I am misinterpreting the written word without intonation - certainly wouldn't be the first time I misinterpreted things with or without intonation. Because of that, along with what I said previously about it being more about me than someone else - I wasn't going to say anything...but with three people already speaking to this now, I figure it might be of some limited value to throw my perspective in the mix.



ezbzbfcg2
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2013
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,936
Location: New Jersey, USA

19 Jul 2021, 7:42 pm

I feel I straddle two worlds. I don't accept the OP 'as a professional whom I want to follow,' but I'm not compelled to. The difference between an op-ed piece and spin is that, in the former, the author makes it clear it's their opinion. Spin is presenting opinion as fact. I don't feel the OP did that, as she mentioned several times it was her opinion.

While I think it's good to say, "I disagree with what you postulate, and here's why..." I don't feel like I'm 'rubbed the wrong way' when people present and acknowledge their own opinions or beliefs.

But when criticism takes on the form of "I don't like you sharing your opinion because of the way it makes precious, little ME feel," I take issue. THAT rubs me the wrong way.



blazingstar
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Nov 2017
Age: 70
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,234

19 Jul 2021, 7:49 pm

And…the point was how to gracefully respond to criticism.

Ezbz is right IMO, the other comments are gratuitous and don’t belong in this thread.

I’d love to hear from more people on how they respond to constructive criticism.


_________________
The river is the melody
And sky is the refrain
- Gordon Lightfoot


kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 87,510
Location: Queens, NYC

19 Jul 2021, 7:53 pm

Cuppa: I think the article is worth reading. Sorry I didn't respond earlier. I feel like it's a useful skill to react gracefully to constructive criticism.

As for my reaction to it: it's mixed. Sometimes, I respond well to it; other times, I go around moping about it. Objectively, though, I feel like reacting well to constructive criticism meant as constructive criticism will help a person grow as a person.



AngelL
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

Joined: 13 Jul 2021
Gender: Male
Posts: 349
Location: Seattle, WA

19 Jul 2021, 8:18 pm

blazingstar wrote:
And…the point was how to gracefully respond to criticism.

Ezbz is right IMO, the other comments are gratuitous and don’t belong in this thread.

I’d love to hear from more people on how they respond to constructive criticism.


If in fact my earlier comments are gratuitous and don't belong in this thread, then please by all means, someone remove it.

Can I ask how you know that 'how I respond to constructive criticism' belongs in this thread though? I'm not being facetious, I really don't know. In fact I came back to this thread to comment on 'constructive criticism' by juxtaposing it with 'destructive criticism', found this post I've quoted, and now I'm not sure if bringing destructive criticism into the conversation would make it so that post doesn't belong in this thread too.

[BTW, you may be right that the point was how to gracefully respond to constructive criticism - in fact, you probably are...but re-read after re-read of the original post hasn't cleared it up for me. I'm getting an authoritative vibe only. This is the way it is. We were not asked for our opinion explicitly, but you seem to have inferred that and I'm trying to figure out what clue I missed. Can you help, please?]



ezbzbfcg2
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2013
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,936
Location: New Jersey, USA

19 Jul 2021, 8:35 pm

AngelL wrote:
...but re-read after re-read of the original post hasn't cleared it up for me. I'm getting an authoritative vibe only. This is the way it is. We were not asked for our opinion explicitly, but you seem to have inferred that and I'm trying to figure out what clue I missed. Can you help, please?]


Why don't you actually go through and quote the parts of the original post and explain what bothers you and why? That will give greater insight into how you're feeling/interpreting it.



AngelL
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

Joined: 13 Jul 2021
Gender: Male
Posts: 349
Location: Seattle, WA

20 Jul 2021, 8:38 am

ezbzbfcg2 wrote:
AngelL wrote:
...but re-read after re-read of the original post hasn't cleared it up for me. I'm getting an authoritative vibe only. This is the way it is. We were not asked for our opinion explicitly, but you seem to have inferred that and I'm trying to figure out what clue I missed. Can you help, please?]


Why don't you actually go through and quote the parts of the original post and explain what bothers you and why? That will give greater insight into how you're feeling/interpreting it.


I am getting increasingly anxious every time I add to this thread. I am usually pretty good with interpreting, but once I start to get confused, it's like I panic and clutch tighter to those traits that take me further down the rabbit hole. I'm no longer sure I can be shown the way out, and there's a warning light going off in my head that is saying, "No matter what you say on this topic next, you'll be wrong". (FWIW, I did exactly what you suggested here yesterday. As hard as I tried, it kept reading, to me, like it was 'snarky'. Since that wasn't my intention, I deleted it before I sent it.)

So please, let me just back up to the idea on constructive vs destructive criticism, cause I was pretty sure that would be okay to add twenty-four hours ago. All I was going to say on this is that, rather than try to figure out whether something is 'constructive criticism' or not, I just act as if all criticism is meant constructively. I know that it's not, but if I can learn from what was said, then at least at times, I can turn 'destructive criticism' into something constructive. Ultimately, whatever judgment I hang on something (i.e. good/bad, constructive/destructive, beautiful/ugly, etc.) is up to me. Sometimes, that's the only choice I have, so I try to use it wisely. I don't always succeed.



blazingstar
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Nov 2017
Age: 70
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,234

20 Jul 2021, 8:47 am

Angel, I was not singling you out for criticism. I was merely pointing out that many comments were evaluating the OP and not contributing to the topic.

In general, if you feel a snarky comment coming on, keep it to yourself. That was good of you to do so.

Whether the OP is condescending or not, = and this goes for everyone = If you don't like what you read, don't comment on the OP. Just pass it by. To make comments about what one thinks about the poster when it is off topic, is gratuitous.

We have by definition impaired ability to communicate. Receptively and Expressively. :D


_________________
The river is the melody
And sky is the refrain
- Gordon Lightfoot


Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Age: 66
Gender: Male
Posts: 59,750
Location: Stendec

20 Jul 2021, 9:00 am

Every person who claimed to be giving me "constructive" criticism was only pointing out my appearance, attitude, or behavior as wrong, Wrong, WRONG.  This usually occurs after a prediction I have made comes true, or after my efforts succeed where theirs have failed.  It is as if they were put on this Earth for the sole purpose of cutting me down and making me feel bad about myself.  The most aggravating part is not their smarmy condescendency, but the fact that I never ask for their criticism -- some will literally walk up to me and start their criticism with the words, "Do you know what is wrong with you?  Well, let me tell you..."

The frequency of this happening dropped off sharply after my first promotion, but it still happens.


_________________
 
No love for Hamas, Hezbollah, Iranian Leadership, Islamic Jihad, other Islamic terrorist groups, OR their supporters and sympathizers.