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thinkinginpictures
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15 May 2021, 9:12 am

I -HATE- political conservatism, because:

Conservatives believe in enforcing a set of values which I cannot and do not want to live with.
They want a society I do not want to live in.

Such conservative values are:

* Conscription/work duty (you get jailed for not working at specific places at specific hours and you as a citizen will have no say in it what-so-ever).

* People with mental disabilities should not get care, but punishment.

* Wants to have prejudice and bias control the judicial system. They do not like a fair trial.

* Believe in an inherited hierarchy, with little to no place for those at the bottom to "climb the ladder", so to speak.

* Wants a certain set of beliefs about the universe and human society made into enforced compulsory set of rituals (compulsory religion, church attendance etc.).

* When having their beliefs and opinions questioned, they get angry and aggressive. They refuse any discussion on their set of beliefs and opinions, unless its a one-way-talk in their favour.



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15 May 2021, 10:47 am

The problem is one needs a balance, as without balance and if there were no Conservitives to give alternative views, one would end up no different to a political dictatorship.

Democracy has to allow all views and respect all views. Those who do not respect their oppositions views have no place to be in a democratic government. While one does not have to agree with other views, one has to hear them out and give them as much importance as ones own views to allow democracy to work.



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15 May 2021, 11:50 am

I'm fairly sure if I posted such a rant I'd get in trouble. But w/e let's look at this nonsense, there might be a germ of a discussion in here.

thinkinginpictures wrote:
Conservatives believe in enforcing a set of values which I cannot and do not want to live with.
They want a society I do not want to live in.


Works both ways.

thinkinginpictures wrote:
Conscription/work duty (you get jailed for not working at specific places at specific hours and you as a citizen will have no say in it what-so-ever).


Conscription is neither a left nor right issue really. There have been obvious needs in earlier times. Arguments about its merits can be made by both left and right without any ideological conflict. I don't know where you are getting work duty from I must have missed the announcement of Biden's work camps. You typically have more freedom not to work in a capitalist state than any socialist/communist one, historical or present, or at least over a long enough time frame - that freedom quickly disappears when the money starts to run out.

thinkinginpictures wrote:
People with mental disabilities should not get care, but punishment.


I don't think punishment is quite what conservatives want, though perhaps there are different understandings of "care" in this context. I don't think much of these "care in the community" ideas where obviously dangerously mentally ill people are allowed a great deal of freedom ... until they murder someone in a confused state. Not an uncommon occurrence in the UK. I would stick such people in asylums and feel no guilt. I don't know if that comes from my evil right wing ideology though.

Less dangerous cases of mental illness I would probably handle differently from the left wing ideal too. There is a strange zeitgeist that insists that people with mental health conditions must live as close a facsimile to "normal" life as possible. I am skeptical of this. I think people who truly can't take care of themselves would be better off in communal facilities. But this is just talk and I do not think it is particularly bent by ideology.

thinkinginpictures wrote:
Wants to have prejudice and bias control the judicial system. They do not like a fair trial.


The left of course have never touched the judiciary, never abused it and certainly never used "human rights" or the "constitution" or scumbag lawyers in general to implement massive changes in society while avoiding the annoyance of democratic discussion.

thinkinginpictures wrote:
Believe in an inherited hierarchy, with little to no place for those at the bottom to "climb the ladder", so to speak.


Yes and no. There is almost a fetish in right-wing circles of the underdog rising to the pinnacle through merit and determination. But at the same time we are astute enough to observe that the child of a useless moron is usually a useless moron too.

thinkinginpictures wrote:
Wants a certain set of beliefs about the universe and human society made into enforced compulsory set of rituals (compulsory religion, church attendance etc.).


Again, that can work both ways. the religion is "equality and diversity", it is enforced in law far more than any religious belief is. Replace church attendance with diversity seminars or hiring quotas or twitter hate mobs etc.

thinkinginpictures wrote:
When having their beliefs and opinions questioned, they get angry and aggressive. They refuse any discussion on their set of beliefs and opinions, unless its a one-way-talk in their favour.


Again. Works both ways. Is it usually right wing or left wing speakers getting hounded on campuses? Or removed from social media? How blind are you?


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Mountain Goat
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15 May 2021, 12:37 pm

Mind you, I do defend your right to share your views, and this is what democracy is all about. Any other system where free speech is restricted and extreme views are not allowed is no longer democracy. The issue is whenit stops being democracy one gets communism or another form of collective dictatorship style governing system.
So my friends, it is important that one defends the freedom of speech and the rights of others like you and me to use it.



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15 May 2021, 1:51 pm

It strikes me that much of our history involves booting conservatives out of the way in order for society to make progress.

But I'm a queer female without much to gain from "conservatism," so I'm probably more than a little biased. :skull:


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Nades
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15 May 2021, 2:00 pm

thinkinginpictures wrote:
I -HATE- political conservatism, because:

Conservatives believe in enforcing a set of values which I cannot and do not want to live with.
They want a society I do not want to live in.

Such conservative values are:

* Conscription/work duty (you get jailed for not working at specific places at specific hours and you as a citizen will have no say in it what-so-ever).

* People with mental disabilities should not get care, but punishment.

* Wants to have prejudice and bias control the judicial system. They do not like a fair trial.

* Believe in an inherited hierarchy, with little to no place for those at the bottom to "climb the ladder", so to speak.

* Wants a certain set of beliefs about the universe and human society made into enforced compulsory set of rituals (compulsory religion, church attendance etc.).

* When having their beliefs and opinions questioned, they get angry and aggressive. They refuse any discussion on their set of beliefs and opinions, unless its a one-way-talk in their favour.


That's a very novel interpretation of being a conservative. I don't know any conservatives who are even remotely that extreme in their views.



Nades
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15 May 2021, 2:03 pm

XFilesGeek wrote:
It strikes me that much of our history involves booting conservatives out of the way in order for society to make progress.

But I'm a queer female without much to gain from "conservatism," so I'm probably more than a little biased. :skull:


I also haven't met a conservative who has issues with being gay. I've met a lot of religious crazies who have issues with it but not conservatives and perhaps they're wrongly associated with each other.



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15 May 2021, 2:13 pm

Nades wrote:
XFilesGeek wrote:
It strikes me that much of our history involves booting conservatives out of the way in order for society to make progress.

But I'm a queer female without much to gain from "conservatism," so I'm probably more than a little biased. :skull:


I also haven't met a conservative who has issues with being gay. I've met a lot of religious crazies who have issues with it but not conservatives and perhaps they're wrongly associated with each other.


I've met a bunch of them. They're not my allies.


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Nades
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15 May 2021, 2:18 pm

XFilesGeek wrote:
Nades wrote:
XFilesGeek wrote:
It strikes me that much of our history involves booting conservatives out of the way in order for society to make progress.

But I'm a queer female without much to gain from "conservatism," so I'm probably more than a little biased. :skull:


I also haven't met a conservative who has issues with being gay. I've met a lot of religious crazies who have issues with it but not conservatives and perhaps they're wrongly associated with each other.


I've met a bunch of them. They're not my allies.


Perhaps if you're American it might be different to where I live in the UK. Here I have no issues with them. Many have issues with how overbearing some from the LGBT community can be in this country but I haven't met a non religious conservative who dislikes someone being gay.



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15 May 2021, 2:33 pm

Sadly, what most people understand as "Conservatism" is actually right-wing Nationalism, which opposes dissent, free choice, creative thought, and questioning of authority.

Conservatism, in its original form is:

• Promotion of personal responsibility.

• Spending only what you already have.

• Belief in Truth and equal justice for all.

• Consuming only what you need.

• Preserving natural resource ("Conservation").

• Negotiation before conflict (war as a last resort).

• Respect for the sovereignty of other polities.

right-wing Nationalism cares not for any of these things; but only for the acquisition of power by any means, exploitation of resources, denial of rights, and the expendability of individuals.


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Last edited by Fnord on 15 May 2021, 2:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.

funeralxempire
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15 May 2021, 2:34 pm

Nades wrote:
Many have issues with how overbearing some from the LGBT community can be in this country but I haven't met a non religious conservative who dislikes someone being gay.


This sounds like little more than complaining about people asking for equality too loudly. :roll:


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15 May 2021, 2:43 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Nades wrote:
Many have issues with how overbearing some from the LGBT community can be in this country but I haven't met a non religious conservative who dislikes someone being gay.


This sounds like little more than complaining about people asking for equality too loudly. :roll:


They already have equality. It's been illegal for quite some time to discriminate against LGBT people. People take issue with members of the LGBT community who want society to socially outcast others who use the wrong pronouns on people who fail to even tell you what they are or even if they're real nouns.

There was some muppet on a train recently in the UK who complained to the employer of a train driver after he said "good morning ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls" because it somehow discriminated against him or whatever he/she was on the day. The train driver got in trouble reading between the lines of his employers response on social media. That's the type of thing conservatives take issue with and rightly so.



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15 May 2021, 2:46 pm

Fnord wrote:
Sadly, what most people understand as "Conservatism" is actually right-wing Nationalism, which opposes dissent, free choice, creative thought, and questioning of authority.

Conservatism, in its original form is:

• Promotion of personal responsibility.

• Spending only what you already have.

• Belief in Truth and equal justice for all.

• Consuming only what you need.

• Preserving natural resource ("Conservation").

• Negotiation before conflict (war as a last resort).

• Respect for the sovereignty of other polities.

right-wing Nationalism cares not for any of these things; but only for the acquisition of power by any means, exploitation of resources, denial of rights, and the expendability of individuals.


This is spot on. This is my idea of a conservative and is how pretty much all conservatives I meet believe in.



Last edited by Nades on 15 May 2021, 2:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Fnord
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15 May 2021, 2:47 pm

↑↑ No, that is the kind of issue over which a neo-conservative snowflake becomes angry.

A true Conservative would never express negativity regarding such a minor annoyance.


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Nades
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15 May 2021, 2:49 pm

Fnord wrote:
↑↑ No, that is the kind of issue over which a neo-conservative snowflake becomes angry.

A true Conservative would never express negativity regarding such a minor annoyance.


What comment was that in response to?



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15 May 2021, 2:53 pm

Nades wrote:
Fnord wrote:
↑↑ No, that is the kind of issue over which a neo-conservative snowflake becomes angry.  A true Conservative would never express negativity regarding such a minor annoyance.
What comment was that in response to?
Do you see two up-arrows at the beginning?  They are "netspeak" for "responding to the first of two posts above".


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